Openly gay and Catholic

[Trailblazer]

I marvel at how much you know with such certainty and with such an astonishing lack of evidence. It must be comforting to to have one's sense of scriptural infallibility resting on such firm ground.

I do not know anything with any certainty. That was only my personal opinion which is derived from my beliefs.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

To be a Catholic is to have faith in God through Christ, that Christ is the 'sacrament' of God and the Church a 'sacrament' of Christ.

According to the Catholic Church, to be Catholic is to be validly baptized. That's it.

And I'm not sure that your use of "sacrament" here has anything at all to do with the Church's understanding of the term.

 

[pearl]

And I'm not sure that your use of "sacrament" here has anything at all to do with the Church's understanding of the term.

The Church is called the sacrament of Christ because it is a visible reality which Christ has formed in this world as a sacred sign of His presence, it is the human nature of Jesus which is the sacrament of God’s presence.

 

[DNB]

I'm actually asexual, and don't experience sexual attraction, but I am still part of the LGBT community. Loving someone is not wrong. You say it's an abomination, but have you ever stepped back and really evaluated your beliefs and the Bible? What if you're wrong? What if your Bible is wrong? Why is the LGBT community an abomination? Because a book says so?

Loving someone is obviously not wrong, provided that it's in the proper measure according to the relationship - same gender beings are not to engage in amorous or sexual activity.
Many people are mentally unstable, and have a very unsound view as to what they desire or deem attractive. Battered wives, for example, believe that their husband actually loves them. Some people think that they in love with their pets, I heard on the new station that a lady wanted to marry her pet (either a cat or dog).

That is, let's not talk about love, for the majority of heterosexual relationships out there are not based on love: rebounding, booty call, needy and insecure, pre-arranged, appearances, loneliness, etc...
Homosexuality is an abomination because it stems from an unsound view of one's self , and the object of their affection. 99% of the population, of all time, were hetero. The body dictates what is a symbiotic relationship. The behaviour of the gay community is outrageously flamboyant, hedonistic and antithetical to the majority of their gender - men acting like girls, wearing make-up and cross-dressing. If it's ok for a man to sleep with a man, why do they have to act like women to do so - the conflict and hypocrisy is patently clear.

 

[DNB]

Yeah, the original Hebrew. Where Leviticus is laws for the Priests, and only at worst describe things that make one ritually unclean, and must be corrected only before entering the temple.

It's you all who made it hateful with shoddy, politically driven mistranslations. That's what's incompetent nonsense.

Learn to read context - your exegesis is deplorable, verging on pathetic.

 

[Ashoka]

Homosexuality is an abomination because it stems from an unsound view of one's self , and the object of their affection. 99% of the population, of all time, were hetero.

That's a very interesting statistic. Do you have a source to back this claim up?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

your exegesis is deplorable, verging on pathetic

My "exegesis" comes from a rabbi, so....

Y'all are the ones that butchered the book, and are now hellbent on maintaining a hateful message that was never there. Says a lot.

 

[metis]

Homosexuality is an abomination because it stems from an unsound view of one's self , and the object of their affection. 99% of the population, of all time, were hetero.

Genetic studies are fairly consistent in showing that most of our sex drive is influenced by our genes that determine our hormone levels. Thus, if one believes God created all, then I would suggest he created gay people as well. So, if one detests homosexuality, then blame God.

Instead, we all should realize that the scriptures also contain cultural influences and beliefs that are quite secular.

 

[Trailblazer]

Genetic studies are fairly consistent in showing that most of our sex drive is influenced by our genes that determine our hormone levels. Thus, if one believes God created all, then I would suggest he created gay people as well.

That's interesting about the hormone levels. That might explain why some people have a higher sex drive than other people, but it does not determine sexual orientation, since the latest studies have found there is no gay gene.

God did not create gay people, God just created people, and people became gay for a number of reasons.

 

[Ashoka]

God did not create gay people, God just created people, and people became gay for a number of reasons.

No one "becomes" gay, you just are if you are. Just as someone doesn't choose to be heterosexual; they are born that way. A gay person was born that way. There's no choice or becoming.

 

[Trailblazer]

No one "becomes" gay, you just are if you are. Just as someone doesn't choose to be heterosexual; they are born that way. A gay person was born that way. There's no choice or becoming.

That is a commonly held belief that is not supported by science....
The problem with that view is that the latest scientific studies show that people are not born gay or straight.

There is no ‘gay gene.’ There is no ‘straight gene.’ Sexuality is just complex, study confirms

Massive Study Finds No Single Genetic Cause of Same-Sex Sexual Behavior

No ‘gay gene’: Massive study homes in on genetic basis of human sexuality

 

[Vinayaka]

That is a commonly held belief that is not supported by science....
The problem with that view is that the latest scientific studies show that people are not born gay or straight.

There is no ‘gay gene.’ There is no ‘straight gene.’ Sexuality is just complex, study confirms

Massive Study Finds No Single Genetic Cause of Same-Sex Sexual Behavior

No ‘gay gene’: Massive study homes in on genetic basis of human sexuality

No single gene, but from the same study ... "1) We discovered five genetic markers that were associated with same-sex sexual behavior."

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That is a commonly held belief that is not supported by science...

Then become gay for a day. Just a day. I'm sure Jesus will forgive you for the verification of others' sinful ways.

 

[DNB]

That's a very interesting statistic. Do you have a source to back this claim up?

I'm 57 years old, I'm the source - I've met enough people in my life, watched the news enough, and heard the statistics from time to time..

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm 57 years old, I'm the source - I've met enough people in my life, watched the news enough, and heard the statistics from time to time..

You would not exactly be a reliable source. I am a 65 year old straight man who has also "watched the news enough", I have heard the statistics from time to time and you are wrong.

 

[DNB]

My "exegesis" comes from a rabbi, so....

Y'all are the ones that butchered the book, and are now hellbent on maintaining a hateful message that was never there. Says a lot.

...'a rabbi' as in the singular? Says a great deal....

Which part of 'detestable' and 'abomination' do you or your 'rabbi' not understand????
What flippin' translations are you and your so-called 'rabbi' referring to???

...like I said, 'pathetic'


New International Version
“’If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

New Living Translation
“If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

English Standard Version
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Berean Standard Bible
If a man lies with a man as with a woman, they have both committed an abomination. They must surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

King James Bible
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

New King James Version
If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

New American Standard Bible
If there is a man who sleeps with a male as those who sleep with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they must be put to death. They have brought their own deaths upon themselves.

NASB 1995
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

NASB 1977
‘If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

Amplified Bible
If a man lies [intimately] with a male as if he were a woman, both men have committed a detestable (perverse, unnatural) act; they shall most certainly be put to death; their blood is on them.

Christian Standard Bible
If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable act. They must be put to death; their death is their own fault.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable thing. They must be put to death; their blood is on their own hands.

American Standard Version
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And a man who will copulate with a male as copulating with a woman, they have committed an abomination; both certainly shall be killed and their blood shall be upon them.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
And whoever shall lie with a male as with a woman, they have both wrought abomination; let them die the death, they are guilty.

Contemporary English Version
It's disgusting for men to have sex with one another, and those who do will be put to death, just as they deserve.

Douay-Rheims Bible
If any one lie with a man se with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.

Good News Translation
If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

International Standard Version
"If a man has sexual relations with another male as he would with a woman, both have committed a repulsive act. They are certainly to be put to death.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Literal Standard Version
And a man who lies with a male as one lies with a woman—both of them have done an abomination; they are certainly put to death; their blood [is] on them.

New American Bible
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination; the two of them shall be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them.

NET Bible
If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.

New Revised Standard Version
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

New Heart English Bible
"'If a man has sexual relations with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

World English Bible
"'If a man lies with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Young's Literal Translation
And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood is on them.

 

[DNB]

Genetic studies are fairly consistent in showing that most of our sex drive is influenced by our genes that determine our hormone levels. Thus, if one believes God created all, then I would suggest he created gay people as well. So, if one detests homosexuality, then blame God.

Instead, we all should realize that the scriptures also contain cultural influences and beliefs that are quite secular.

Every man has the power within him to resist and desist sin. He has the power and will to either diet or not diet, smoke or not, over drink or not, commit adultery or not, change his habits and his tastes.

Therefore, homosexuals, and all perverts, are without excuse.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

...like I said, 'pathetic'

Cool story but what I've been told I'll put far above your shoddy translations, have fun living out the rest of a life exalting hate

 

[DNB]

Cool story but what I've been told I'll put far above your shoddy translations, have fun living out the rest of a life exalting hate

...have fun living out the rest of your life in total and utter oblivion.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

...have fun living out the rest of your life in total and utter oblivion.

No hate like christian love, eh?

Mind boggling that it's so easy to leave such obviously wrong and harmful doctrine aside, but instead so many cling to it like a lifeline and uphold it despite the glaringly obvious harm that it does.

And no, before you throw out the inevitable gutter-sludge that is so commonly regurgitated, homosexuality does not cause harm or pain or whatever other asinine thing you'll claim it does. Facts don't care about your feelings.