Opinions on Sura 4:34 (Muslim women only, please)

[Breathe]

First off, I would like to make it clear that I am only after sister's opinions on these questions. I do not wish for the thread to debate what the passage says. I was initially very concerned about posting this, because I feel it may be hijacked easily. I had to ask for an opinion from one of the Muslim sisters on this forum.

No doubt all of the Muslim sisters here know of Surah 4:34 of the Quran and the whole "does this or does this not support wife beating?"

My question, inspired by the recent activity about this passage, I wanted to ask our female Muslim members (and only them) their opinion on this, is because it ultimately boils down to potential personal experiences, God forbid that to actually happen.


So with that, my questions can begin.

My questions are...


Do you believe the passage supports wife beating?
If yes, is it a "light" beating or just a beating?
If it is a light beating, how is that distinguished or carried out?
If no, what do you interpret it to be?

If yes, and you were beaten (God forbid) by your husband or father because of claimed rebelliousness, even if it was done "lightly", what would be your reaction? Would you allow it and do nothing, change so you were not hit again, or seek help as soon as possible because of what was done to you?
Would you react differently to the beating if it was done for something you thought (for some reason) they had a reason for versus something you thought they had no reason to do?

If no, and you were beaten (God forbid) by your husband or father because of claimed rebelliousness, even if it was done "lightly", what would be your reaction? Would you allow it and do nothing, change so you were not hit again, or seek help as soon as possible because of what was done to you?


I look forward to the responses here. Thank you for your time.

 

[beenie]

Thank you, Odion, for posting this thread. I have the same goal in mind that we can open peoples' eyes to what Islam really says about the treatment of women, namely wives.

Disclaimer: Let it be known that I am NOT an apologist who is trying to deny a verse meaning something "I don't like" or that "we Muslims are trying to avoid admitting". Anyone who has read my posts on this forum knows that I am not above saying "yep, that's what it says, and it bugs me too/I struggle with it too". However, in this particular case, I really believe there is an alternative explanation that actually makes MORE sense than the most common translation.

Here is the Verse in Question (one translation):

4:34 - Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

--gotta love the words in parenthesis...the word in question is adriboo, which as we now know, has several meanings. One is to beat; the others include, "to forsake, leave".

To understand this, we must know what the intention/purpose is behind this ayah (verse). The intention and hopeful outcome of this advice to MEN regarding their wives is RECONCILIATION. When there is a marital problem that is unable to be resolved through normal procedures (discussion, more discussion, even MORE discussion, then separate the beds, THEN comes the final straw...IMO avoid her even more). Here we are going to assume that the wife has been in the wrong and that she will see his angst by forsaking intercourse and even a normal relationship with her. A couple can still be normal without sex, but the extra step of avoiding her and possibly not speaking is entirely different.

Here is the same verse with the "forsake/leave" inserted instead of "strike".

4:34 - Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], forsake/leave them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Let's make the assumption that adriboo does indeed mean to "beat/strike". If a man were to strike his wife, a few outcomes could come of it.

1. she strikes back, subjecting herself to further strikes and a physical altercation;
2. she doesn't strike back, but packs up the children and herself and leaves;
3. stays in the marriage, "submits" out of FEAR of either his retaliation or abandonment in a culture which is nearly impossible for single Muslim mothers/women.

None of those scenarios coincides with the spirit of the Qur'an and its treatment of women. In all other matters before Allah, men and women are held to the same level of responsibility and "punishment". Why, then, would Allah give man such a "right" over their equals in the eye of Allah? Since when does man's rights supersede Allah's? To claim that adriboo means beat is erroneous and contradictory to the goal of reconciliation between husband and wife. I refuse to believe that Allah wants a woman to remain in a marriage with a man she fears.

Now on to your questions:

Do you believe the passage supports wife beating?
If yes, is it a "light" beating or just a beating?
If it is a light beating, how is that distinguished or carried out?
If no, what do you interpret it to be?

No, I do not believe the passage supports wife beating.
IMO there is no such thing as a "light" beating.
I interpret it to be a further separation/ignoring his wife. Women DO NOT like to be ignored, and it could be argued that ignoring her is worse than hitting her.

If yes, and you were beaten (God forbid) by your husband or father because of claimed rebelliousness, even if it was done "lightly", what would be your reaction? Would you allow it and do nothing, change so you were not hit again, or seek help as soon as possible because of what was done to you?
Would you react differently to the beating if it was done for something you thought (for some reason) they had a reason for versus something you thought they had no reason to do?

If my husband ever struck me I would kick his *** and leave him. IMO, striking someone is a weakness and shows lack of intellectual thinking. Instead of participating in a mature conversation, smacking is like a two-year-old temper tantrum. I don't think a husband or father ever has a valid reason to hit his wife/daughter.

If no, and you were beaten (God forbid) by your husband or father because of claimed rebelliousness, even if it was done "lightly", what would be your reaction? Would you allow it and do nothing, change so you were not hit again, or seek help as soon as possible because of what was done to you?

Same as above. I can't imagine a situation where a man would need to hit a woman to change anything. It will only instill fear.

I'll leave you with some ayahs and Hadith that will hopefully help:

"And among His signs is this; that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your hearts. Verily in that are signs for those who reflect."(Surah Al Rum, Chapter 30 Verse 21)

“They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them.” (Surah Al Baqarah, Chapter 2 Verse 187)

"Fear Allah regarding women. Verily you have married them with the trust of Allah, and made their bodies lawful with the word of Allah. You have got (rights) over them, and they have got (rights) over you in respect of their food and clothing according to your means."

The Prophet (pbuh) also said:

"The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manner and kindest to his wife."

“O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good. “ (Surah An Nisa, Chapter 4 Verse 19)

Anas(ra) related that Rasulullah(saw) said, "Verily, Heaven lies under the feet of our mother."

 

[Sakeenah]

Thank you odion for starting this thread and for asking us muslim sisters..I'll try to answer these questions InshaAllah(God willing) it will be a long post so I think i'll post it tommorrow morning bidhnilah(Godwilling)

 

[Sajdah]

Do you believe the passage supports wife beating?

The verse doesn't obligate nor recommend wife beating, it guides us to ways to handle delicate family situations with wisdom and care. So logically would the verse present a grave problem like "beating or physical abuse" as a solution for another serious situation?! I don't think so...
The word "beating" in the verse doesn't mean physical abuse, the prophet (PBUH) explained the word as (a light tap that leaves no mark), and he said that face must be avoided....Besides, some scholars explained that it is no more than a light touch by a siwak, or a toothbrush(is it what you mean by "light beating")!

This light touch is described in the verse as the last resort in solving a very serious problem, there are two measures should be taken before reaching to that one!
Also in several hadiths, the prophet prohibits beating wives "Do not beat the female servants of Allah", "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her"
By this I think that no one can claim that the passage supports wife beating, physical abuse, nor family violence...

If no, and you were beaten (God forbid) by your husband or father because of claimed rebelliousness, even if it was done "lightly", what would be your reaction? Would you allow it and do nothing, change so you were not hit again, or seek help as soon as possible because of what was done to you?

I don't know what you mean by light beating, but anyway if I was mistaken and my future husband tapped me lightly by a toothbrush or siwak, of course I would make sure that home is clear of those tools before the battle begins ....Well, I would never let the situation reach to this limit, if I was really mistaken and he used the two other measures prescribed in the verse, I would solve the problem before it get worse and before I lose respect to myself. If I really care about my family, I would do my best so as not to lead our relashionship to such a closed way...
But if I was insane enough to let the situation reach to that limit and he found no other way but to tap me ........I don't know what to say, really my mind doesn't accept such thing at all! I can't image that whole thing!!

Look, the experiences I heard about are all unjust and the husbands are oppressors ...They don't admonish or advice their wives, nor avoid them in bed, they jump to the third option and beat them with no mercy as if they were their enemies... I think those men are sick or they have ethical problems... Yes some of them use this verse to justify such horrible act, but they are no different from those who twist the verses of Qur'an to murder non-muslim civilians. Both of them twist the explanations of the verses to justify their wrong actions!

 

[beenie]

The verse doesn't obligate nor recommend wife beating, it guides us to ways to handle delicate family situations with wisdom and care. So logically would the verse present a grave problem like "beating or physical abuse" as a solution for another serious situation?! I don't think so...
The word "beating" in the verse doesn't mean physical abuse, the prophet (PBUH) explained the word as (a light tap that leaves no mark), and he said that face must be avoided....Besides, some scholars explained that it is no more than a light touch by a siwak, or a toothbrush(is it what you mean by "light beating")!

This light touch is described in the verse as the last resort in solving a very serious problem, there are two measures should be taken before reaching to that one!
Also in several hadiths, the prophet prohibits beating wives "Do not beat the female servants of Allah", "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her"
By this I think that no one can claim that the passage supports wife beating, physical abuse, nor family violence...


I don't know what you mean by light beating, but anyway if I was mistaken and my future husband tapped me lightly by a toothbrush or siwak, of course I would make sure that home is clear of those tools before the battle begins ....Well, I would never let the situation reach to this limit, if I was really mistaken and he used the two other measures prescribed in the verse, I would solve the problem before it get worse and before I lose respect to myself. If I really care about my family, I would do my best so as not to lead our relashionship to such a closed way...
But if I was insane enough to let the situation reach to that limit and he found no other way but to tap me ........I don't know what to say, really my mind doesn't accept such thing at all! I can't image that whole thing!!

Look, the experiences I heard about are all unjust and the husbands are oppressors ...They don't admonish or advice their wives, nor avoid them in bed, they jump to the third option and beat them with no mercy as if they were their enemies... I think those men are sick or they have ethical problems... Yes some of them use this verse to justify such horrible act, but they are no different from those who twist the verses of Qur'an to murder non-muslim civilians. Both of them twist the explanations of the verses to justify their wrong actions!

Exactly, which is what I've been trying to explain in other threads concerning the matter. In a mutually loving, caring relationship, both parties would do everything in their power to not let it get to the point that either party wishes to harm the other. Of course all couples argue, disagree, and can sometimes get downright nasty (temporarily). However, ANY relationship that can't be resolved by discussion and temporary separation (even if for just a few minutes or hours), obviously has problems that are far beyond what's "normal".

Any relationship that reaches the point of a man feeling the need to "tap", "beat", "throw a napkin at" is obviously unhealthy to begin with. Most disagreements are resolved with time and a soft-HEART, not a soft beating.

Source: 15+ years of marriage and lots of disagreements resolved.

 

[Breathe]

Thank to everyone who has replied so far.

I have enjoyed your responses, and I'm hoping that many members are learning that a vast majority of Muslims do not believe that the verse means "to beat", and that many Muslim women would not stand for it.

 

[Sajdah]

Source: 15+ years of marriage and lots of disagreements resolved.

Masha'Allah, may Allah bless you and your family to live in peace and harmony dear sis

 

[beenie]

Masha'Allah, may Allah bless you and your family to live in peace and harmony dear sis

JazakAllah Khairun, sister. We have six daughters to raise successfully, inshAllah, so we both need to compromise and work it out. I think we do well, Alhamdulillah.

 

[Starsoul]

Salamo alaikum sisters, Good responses by you all, thorough and well explained MAshAllah. I havent been around much but the above posts have left little to be added further, I hope it cleared the misconception in the mind regarding the verse.

Would just like to add though, that Scholars agree that the instance of "yadribu huna" may include, after all persuasion and other stages of conflict resolve; the physical effort that is employed as a nudge, shaking by the shoulders, and all the rest described above, is done , ONLY in the instance where the wife is known to have done, or seen to be going near absolutely haram stuff ( i.e stuff that is completely forbidden in Islam, like consuming alcohol, substance abuse, adultery, fornication, murder, hurting someone , big stuff, sins of grave nature etc).

And that is done only for her own well being as most women are well known to fall prey to neurosis at some stage in their lives, due to hormonal, or any other reason for instance, and sometimes Really need somebody to snap them out of it, since they are so consumed emotionally that nothing makes sense to them at such a moment, and they can act, and ARE known to act quite violently, e.g some women even throw their babies on the floor in a rush of rage, and hurt them, how can we forget several mothers who are being reported every other day, who've killed their own babies, in negligence or in conspiracy with a boyfriend, or just in a stroke of madness.

Islam is for everybody, and the core of Islamic social values lie on Prevention AND cure. More on prevention than cure, because it prevents you from becoming evil even before you decide to become evil in a furious retaliation to your unsuitable circumstances or whatever. Its easy to put a mother in jail who's killed her own child, but is it easy for the child's siblings to live with this truth? or is it easy for such a mother to re-cuperate from the guilt for having fallen so blind in her own darkness that nothing made sense to her. How comforting are such news for mothers and children of a society, when they cannot even trust if their own parents with their lives?

There are concrete steps in social, personal and family development at every step in Islam through which the whole society at large can benefit from , immensely. MAy ALlah swt guide us all and bring peace and wisdom in our lives, ameen.