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Opium of the people . Question for Atheists /agnostics
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Cept for Religion has often lead people to fight the system....that is one reason communist regimes persecuted it
God damn it PopeaDope. Do you intentionally just not seek out context? I'm not a Marxist, but even I know what he meant.
The "Opiate of the Masses" quote is assumed to mean he was referring to religion as an evil, an addiction. What you, and many others, fail to realize is that he was using "opiate" in not merely its negative connotations(addiction and such), but also positive. Or, to put it simply:
Religion is like opium. Used properly, it is completely benign and can be extremely helpful, so long as those 'prescribing' it are doing it for good reasons. The negative connotations com in when religion, like opium, is used to control and dominate people.
The "Opiate of the Masses" quote is assumed to mean he was referring to religion as an evil, an addiction. What you, and many others, fail to realize is that he was using "opiate" in not merely its negative connotations(addiction and such), but also positive. Or, to put it simply:
Religion is like opium. Used properly, it is completely benign and can be extremely helpful, so long as those 'prescribing' it are doing it for good reasons. The negative connotations com in when religion, like opium, is used to control and dominate people.
Sometimes. But more often, religion and the other distractions have led people to so engage themselves in the system that at least some of them can be induced to fight and die to maintain and expand it, sometimes with and sometimes without religion. And frankly, the state cults of Stalin, Mao, etc., are every bit religions as is Christianity.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I never was saying that Marx was using "opium" as a term to say Religion is evil. In the quote it did occur to me that maybe he was using the term opium as a positive necessary pain-killer as well, which was actually why I started the thread.
I was just pointing out the benefits of opiates and asking Atheists if they thought this "opiate" should be thrown out (or rather, society would be better off atheist) or if they saw it as having a purpose that is good for society and that can prevent greater evils (when used correctly.)
In my experience, religion often causes more pain. It claims to give comfort, but I've never seen this.
Statements like that are very religion-dependent... and maybe exclusive to state-sanctioned religions of the establishment. There have been many examples of religion that motivated class warfare.
http://news.health.com/2016/03/28/n...scribe-addictive-narcotic-painkillers-survey/
Painkillers have their place, but they are not the solution and they can cause bigger problems than the ones they are intended to solve.
Painkillers have their place, but they are not the solution and they can cause bigger problems than the ones they are intended to solve.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
From my perspective, just "throwing it out" is not an option, as it does serve a purpose for many individuals.
However, my personal belief is that the purpose it serves and the "need" for it is simply a symptom of the sad state humanity persistently finds itself in. It is a tragic mark on our existence that we need such things to be able to cope with simply "being" - that dealing with one another is so difficult outside of having some imaginary point of interest to find common ground on. This need is not something to be proud of - I feel it to be a flaw in our nature - and it hinders us on a great many levels.
But - I find that most people simply aren't interested in, or capable of interacting with one another on a completely open and honest platform. There are too many "icky parts" to being human, and judgment is held at the ready for each and every infraction threatening "normalcy" - to the point that even those of us willing to be completely open/honest in our interactions with others have to hide it - and be closed/dishonest, to save from being ostracized outright.
I think you're stretching the metaphor a bit, but yes, that it's "opium" doesn't mean it should be thrown out. It's sufficient that it be recognized for what it is.
I actually agree with you. I do not believe that secularism is the default position, but a process. A long and painstaking process that can be reversed at anytime.
And religious beliefs does not come in isolation, but it is intertwined with other social aspects that need to mature, as well. For instance, I don't think you can have a functional atheistic society living in a socially insecure milieu.
Therefore, I think that removing religious belief before someone is ready, might create more damage than advantages.
Ciao
- viole
I'm in constant pain. Not "pain some of the time". I am in constant, agonizing pain, 24 hours a day. I go to sleep with it, I can feel it in my dreams, and it's what wakes me up. Opiate painkillers are the only reason I haven't killed myself. I've been dealing with this since I was 13 or so years old.
You cannot "fix" a malformed spine, or the lack of cartilage between my joints, among my laundry list of other ailments.
I will take the "risk", because my alternative is suicide.
Pick one for me, please.
Saying that painkillers are generally over-prescribed does not mean that painkillers should never be prescribed.
Given the hell I went through to get them due to my age, I honestly don't ****ing care. I am so tired of ****ing hurting all the time. I remember the years it took to get anything that worked for me. If they had been easier to prescribe when I was growing up, I may have had a better 4-7 years without constantly thinking about just killing myself to escape the pain.
I would prefer they over-prescribe and get them to the people who need them while also giving them to those who don't, than making already broken people jump through these ludicrous hopes just because some people abuse it.
I think you are missing my point. This is a metaphor.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Religion obviously has a myriad of uses, otherwise such a wide range of people wouldn't use it and/or depend on it for various things (comfort, social acceptance, power, and monetary gain, to name a few). Personally, as a rationalist, I don't have any use for it, but I don't begrudge other people their needs - as long as it doesn't impose or impinge on me.
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
It's impossible to do so. The existence of so many world religions is evidence of our propensity to just make **** up... Whether it's a particular religion, ideology, philosophy, worldview or whatever, people are going to find SOMETHING to give their lives meaning. What I have a problem with are restrictions to others formulated on the basis of completely fabricated mythologies. The problem isn't religion. The problem is people thinking that their worldview is the only correct one.
There may very well be less of those things... so where does that leave us?
His lucky star is an good example of what I was referring to above. People find deep meaning in all types of nonsense. Highly regulated and historically weighty religions simply provide a good outlet through which to maintain leverage over people's feelings and their behavioral tendencies.
Augustus
…
Marx's view was that religion was a necessary psychological response to the world they lived in. This is one of the reasons why Communism was militantly athiestic in its philosophy. With the advent of Communist governance , the social conditions that necessitated religion would be destroyed, and the 'illusion of happiness' could be replaced by' true happiness'.
Maintaining religious belief was a form of false consciousness that prevented humanity from reaching its true destiny that was a Historical inevitability.
Religion in the old system was understandable, religion under Communism was treacherous and had to be destroyed as it stood on the wrong side of History.
Many modern atheists seem to half agree with this. They reject the forceful and violent eradication of religion, but see religion as something holding people back from reaching their 'true' potential.
They often have a quite patronising attitude where the weak willed who lack the mental fortitude of the atheist need some kind of a comfort blanket that religion provides.
The non-religious tend to wrap themselves in comfort blankets of a different kind though (often that of their own 'reason'), as few people can live happily without illusions.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Having read things like the Bible and Koran, we would be so much better off without people claiming such atrocities as a guide of morality. Anything that promotes, condones, and permits rape, genocide, slavery, or other forms of violence has got to go. It's not like we're living in accordance to "Biblical principles" anyways. If it's all true, pretty much just about every Christian today is going to be called "the least" in the Kingdom for not strictly adhering to the Law.