Oral Sex

[Saint Frankenstein]

I've given hundreds of sermons and taught the Bible to many.

I understand that if you think "faith plus works is straightforward", that contradicts clear verses that specifically say faith does not include works and that the GIFT of salvation is utterly separate from works.

Meanwhile you ignore the passage I just quoted which says just the opposite of what you're saying. Whatever. I really don't care. You and I are not the same religion. I have little in common theologically with Evangelical Protestant types. I know you say you're a Messianiac Jew, but that appears to be the foundation of your theology. My theology is mainstream traditional Christianity (in agreement with Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, mainline Protestantism, etc.).

 

[metis]

I understand that if you think "faith plus works is straightforward", that contradicts clear verses that specifically say faith does not include works and that the GIFT of salvation is utterly separate from works.

Not according to Matthew 25 and also the Sermon On the Mount. Seems that you're teaching that one can buy their way into Heaven with just having some politically-correct beliefs.

Christianity is mean to be a lifestyle, and that lifestyle includes living out of the Gospel and not just sitting back in a rocking-chair having some nice p.c. thoughts.

 

[Trailblazer]

Doing the right thing is trusting in Jesus, not in self, and anyone trusting their works to save them is, biblically speaking, foolish.

I agree that we should trust in Jesus, not in self.

A person should not trust in their own works to save them because that would make them proud, but that does not mean that we should not do good works. If we trust in Jesus we will do good works because Jesus asked us to do good works.

 

[Trailblazer]

My theology is mainstream traditional Christianity (in agreement with Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, mainline Protestantism, etc.).

You mentioned Messianic Jews. I am conversing with a Messianic Jew on another forum and he says I am going to hell because I do not believe in the resurrection. He says that Yeshua (the Messiah) was resurrected from the dead for the salvation of mankind so my not believing in the bodily resurrection puts me outside of God's plan for the salvation of humanity.

I told him I have never heard of such a thing and I said that everyone knows it was not the resurrection but rather the cross sacrifice that saved humanity from their sins; even non-Christians know that!

Here is what Jesus said to that Christian today:

I am covered because I believe in Jesus. NOWHERE did Jesus ever say I have to believe in the resurrection to gain eternal life.​

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

So, what's the drill? When I ask him he has no verses that support his beliefs about me going to hell.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I agree that we should trust in Jesus, not in self.

A person should not trust in their own works to save them because that would make them proud, but that does not mean that we should not do good works. If we trust in Jesus we will do good works because Jesus asked us to do good works.

Yes, that is true. What is untrue is that God will remove a believer's salvation for any reason.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Meanwhile you ignore the passage I just quoted which says just the opposite of what you're saying. Whatever. I really don't care. You and I are not the same religion. I have little in common theologically with Evangelical Protestant types. I know you say you're a Messianiac Jew, but that appears to be the foundation of your theology. My theology is mainstream traditional Christianity (in agreement with Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, mainline Protestantism, etc.).

And traditional belief has one trusting self for salvation, not Jesus. Yet the root of all those traditional groups was with on-fire people who were biblically orthodox/accurate.

As a Messianic Jew, it's not okay for me to say TRUST JESUS, NOT SELF?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Not according to Matthew 25 and also the Sermon On the Mount. Seems that you're teaching that one can buy their way into Heaven with just having some politically-correct beliefs.

Christianity is mean to be a lifestyle, and that lifestyle includes living out of the Gospel and not just sitting back in a rocking-chair having some nice p.c. thoughts.

That the Savior died and rose, innocent, for me IMHO, is not a PC belief. It IS biblical, loving, a sacrifice, an offering to the Father, etc.

Christianity should be a lifestyle that lives out the gospel/good news, yes. But you have, therefore:

"Christianity is a lifestyle that lives out a lifestyle"

I have:

"Christianity is a lifestyle that lives out the reality that imperfect people cannot live in a utopia and can only be perfected by the blood of Jesus Christ"

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And traditional belief has one trusting self for salvation, not Jesus. Yet the root of all those traditional groups was with on-fire people who were biblically orthodox/accurate.

As a Messianic Jew, it's not okay for me to say TRUST JESUS, NOT SELF?

Salvation is a process that you partake in. It's not a one-time event where you say or think something and God flips a "saved" switch and it's over.

Anyway, this is off-topic.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, that is true. What is untrue is that God will remove a believer's salvation for any reason.

But what if a believer turned away from God before they died?

 

[Mock Turtle]

I think this might be appropriate in this thread - shame it isn't longer (the song)

 

[metis]

That the Savior died and rose, innocent, for me IMHO, is not a PC belief. It IS biblical, loving, a sacrifice, an offering to the Father, etc.

That's good for starters.

I have:

"Christianity is a lifestyle that lives out the reality that imperfect people cannot live in a utopia and can only be perfected by the blood of Jesus Christ"

But in order to be a "lifestyle", one must live it, and the Sermon On the Mount is probably the best single scriptural source as to how we must do this. And Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats in Matthew 25 also makes that perfectly clear.

IOW, no shortcuts through a "wide gate".

 

[BilliardsBall]

That's good for starters.

But in order to be a "lifestyle", one must live it, and the Sermon On the Mount is probably the best single scriptural source as to how we must do this. And Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats in Matthew 25 also makes that perfectly clear.

IOW, no shortcuts through a "wide gate".

The Sermon on the Mount is a resounding denunciation that we do not live the lifestyle/law. Are you currently clothed and fed? Then you don't love your brother as yourself.

What the Bible makes clear is that imperfect persons, regardless of general lifestyle, cannot live in utopia, and must be transformed to be perfect, not "good". That also aligns with logic and all we know regarding human behavior.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Salvation is a process that you partake in. It's not a one-time event where you say or think something and God flips a "saved" switch and it's over.

Anyway, this is off-topic.

Do you have verses for that, and verses that contradict plain teachings that disagree, like John 3:16, "Whoever trusts/has trusted/shall trust HAS eternal life and will NEVER perish"?

 

[BilliardsBall]

But what if a believer turned away from God before they died?

John 3:16, "Whoever trusts/has trusted/will trust HAS eternal life and will NEVER perish."

I trusted Him in the past, for the first time trusting Him and not myself, so I HAVE eternal life NOW and will NEVER perish in the FUTURE.

You could give me unlimited examples besides turning away and John 3:16 . . . is valid. I will NEVER perish.

 

[Revoltingest]

Boys give girls oral sex as well though. Girls do it to other girls. I know a woman who says it's her favourite thing to do with her husband. I don't see an issue here.

That's cuz you're a heathen with no Bible learn'n.
(And I mean that in the nicest way possible.)

 

[Muffled]

I knowof nothing in the Bible about oral sex but I was asked about it and received an answer from God that it is perversion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do you have verses for that, and verses that contradict plain teachings that disagree, like John 3:16, "Whoever trusts/has trusted/shall trust HAS eternal life and will NEVER perish"?

There's the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, the Parable of the Talents, the Sermon on the Mount, etc. This idea that you can never lose your salvation is very modern and doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Rival]

I knowof nothing in the Bible about oral sex but I was asked about it and received an answer from God that it is perversion.

Well that settles that then.

 

[Trailblazer]

You could give me unlimited examples besides turning away and John 3:16 . . . is valid. I will NEVER perish.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I meant if you stopped believing in Him, would you perish?

 

[metis]

What the Bible makes clear is that imperfect persons, regardless of general lifestyle, cannot live in utopia, and must be transformed to be perfect, not "good".

No, as a Christian lifestyle is mandated or we are not living out what the Gospel actually teaches. Besides the Sermon On the Mount mandating this, so does Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats. To not do so while claiming to have belief in the Gospel is like "cymbals clashing"-- a lot of noise but no commitment to Jesus' teachings.

The Sermon on the Mount is a resounding denunciation that we do not live the lifestyle/law.

You added "law", but I was not talking about Jewish Law.

Are you currently clothed and fed? Then you don't love your brother as yourself

You don't know what my commitment is and, just to let you know, not only do I contribute to charities but I also do volunteer work at my church to help those in need.

If you are a minister teaching what I call "rocking-chair religion", then you are preaching an anti-Gospel that's absolutely contrary to what Jesus taught. He very much warned us to be aware of just being "crashing cymbals", namely those that have no commitment to teach and live out the Gospel.