Oregon Shooter was Mormon?!

[Nymphs]

I don't see how being a Mormon means anything. He certainly wasn't representative of Mormons, by any means.

I never said he wasn't, but like I've now stated multiple times in this thread, I'm curious to see if the pressure from the Mormon Church had anything to do with his actions.

 

[ChristineES]

I never said he wasn't, but like I've now stated multiple times in this thread, I'm curious to see if the pressure from the Mormon Church had anything to do with his actions.

I apologize that I didn't read the whole thread. :sorry1:

 

[Nymphs]

I apologize that I didn't read the whole thread. :sorry1:

It's okay. I shouldn't have snapped at you -- I've just answered why I think it is important several times and it frustrated me that another person was asking when I had already answered the question several times. I'm sorry about that. :cover:

 

[kashmir]

I never said he wasn't, but like I've now stated multiple times in this thread, I'm curious to see if the pressure from the Mormon Church had anything to do with his actions.

That is exactly how some of are taking it, my play on meme's is exactly just that, so now you think the church is is pressuring them to kill?
All those school shootings and nothing about their backgrounds matters except this one guy because someone said he was mormon?

I seen it on the news two times now, never once is it even said he was mormon...

what should we think, if some poly couple, decides to kill all their other lovers?
just wondering, be honest..
what should we think?

 

[Nymphs]

That is exactly how some of are taking it, my play on meme's is exactly just that, so now you think the church is is pressuring them to kill?

Well, they should re-read my statements a little harder. And again, the answer is NO. The Mormon Church is not pressuring them to kill, but the pressure from the Mormon Church can do funny things to people and cause them to act in ways which sometimes we don't understand.

All those school shootings and nothing about their backgrounds matters except this one guy because someone said he was mormon?

Like I stated, I am an ex-Mormon. It is interesting to ME because I come from the background, and I understand the intense amount of pressure and stress that can come from trying to live like a good Mormon. I'm not saying you have to find it interesting, but it is to me.

I seen it on the news two times now, never once is it even said he was mormon...

Like I said in my very first few posts:

I'll be interested to see if this information is confirmed.

I'm curious to see if his faith/lack of faith/pressure from faith played into his decision at all. The Mormon faith literally involves your entire life -- it just isn't a Sunday thing. I'm curious to see if the pressures from it (if the claims are true) had anything to do with what happened.

what should we think, if some poly couple, decides to kill all their other lovers?
just wondering, be honest..
what should we think?

If their polyamorous behaviour/relationships played into the murders, I would be just as interested to see if that was the case, but as polyamory isn't a religion, it would be a completely different subject. Religion is a very intense thing to live through, especially when it is a controlling, patriarchal, tight-knit faith such as the Mormon Church. Polyamory is a type of relationship, not a religion. Your analogy really doesn't work here.

 

[kashmir]

Well, they should re-read my statements a little harder. And again, the answer is NO. The Mormon Church is not pressuring them to kill, but the pressure from the Mormon Church can do funny things to people and cause them to act in ways which sometimes we don't understand.



Like I stated, I am an ex-Mormon. It is interesting to ME because I come from the background, and I understand the intense amount of pressure and stress that can come from trying to live like a good Mormon. I'm not saying you have to find it interesting, but it is to me.



Like I said in my very first few posts:







If their polyamorous behaviour/relationships played into the murders, I would be just as interested to see if that was the case, but as polyamory isn't a religion, it would be a completely different subject. Religion is a very intense thing to live through, especially when it is a controlling, patriarchal, tight-knit faith such as the Mormon Church. Polyamory is a type of relationship, not a religion. Your analogy really doesn't work here.

you are making huge circular arguments and basically you are blaming the church, if its not them and its him, then poly ppl make no difference either, something else could have made them snap.
churches are not the only things that make ppl snap.
As you are suggesting, the church might have made him snap.
Hence tons of mass murderers, hence the other school shooters, hence life itself, all kinds of things make ppl snap.

how does being pressured to live a holy life result in someone wanting to mass murder up a school anyway?

Nothing even points to "mormon"
JW's are very holy ppl too, so are Muslims, so are a lot of other faiths.
nothing you are saying isolates this one case to be any diff then the other killers.

That is my issue with this, where is the missing link?
did he leave a note and say I am killing for god?
where is that?
where is your argument?
mormon, killed , that is all you have as an argument.
I am serious, not trying to be mean, I want to know the argument that makes this worth what you suggest.
It surly isnt because you were mormon, did it make you wanna shoot up schools?
If it did, that then means something to me, I will hear that, do they suggest killing?
I am not mormon, so you should be telling us, right?
not just mormon=killed....

 

[kashmir]

I believe I know exactly what is going on, the more kids that shoot up schools and get treated like celebs on tv, other kids with huge problems already, see that on TV and want to be a "hero" as well.

There was one and, then another, and the more its done, the faster its done again.
It is obvious to this guy that the way the media handles it, plays in kids minds..
Its growing like a trend.
To me anyway.

I will also say that some churches very strict and its not for everyone, maybe he had probs there, but surely its not the fault of the church, no more than its the fault of his parents or the kids at the school, he had probs and the media gave him a way to go out with a bang.

As I said, it happened once and its like doubling and tripling and its becoming a monthly thing, soon it will be daily.

 

[Nymphs]

you are making huge circular arguments and basically you are blaming the church

Please show me EXACTLY where I have blamed the Mormon Church for this shooting? Oh wait, I have not. I've simply made the assertion that there is a great deal of pressure on members of this faith, and I was curious (please re-read my posts for clarification, and look up the definition of the word curious) to see if this pressure played a part in his actions. Nothing more, nothing less. You really need to stop assuming, it makes you look foolish.

if its not them and its him, then poly ppl make no difference either, something else could have made them snap.
churches are not the only things that make ppl snap.

I never said churches were the only thing that make people snap, but in my experience as an ex-Mormon (spent 25+ years of my life involved in the church), the pressure within the church to 'perform' and 'act' as a Mormon is incredibly intense. Also, what is your bizarre fascination with bringing poly people into every discussion we have?

As you are suggesting, the church might have made him snap.

It may, or it may not have -- that is what I'm curious about, and which I've stated multiple times on this thread. Please read the thread before asking a question that has been asked over and over again.

how does being pressured to live a holy life result in someone wanting to mass murder up a school anyway?

You assume 'holy' means good and that this pressure is good. Imagine being forced to live a certain way. As a teenager, you really don't have a ton of control over your life choices, and with the added stress of a church who controls everything (which I've already stated), this pressure can cause people to crack. Most people go more of a depression/suicidal thoughts route, but I have seen people go the anger and violence route because of the pressure.

You obviously are ignoring the intense lifestyle that is put-upon Mormon children/teenagers. Just the Mormon lifestyle could be an entirely different thread, but you need to understand how intense it is.

Imagine being a teenager. Imagine now that someone says, you can only wear this underwear, this clothing, watch this show, listen to this music, eat this food, drink this drink and hang out with these people. Otherwise, you are 'sinning' and won't make it to heaven, but Outer Darkness (or spiritual prison). It's incredibly restrictive and suffocating for many...and some don't make it out in one piece, or even at all.

Nothing even points to "mormon"
JW's are very holy ppl too, so are Muslims, so are a lot of other faiths.
nothing you are saying isolates this one case to be any diff then the other killers.

There is no proof one way or the other (unless someone has a reference link available), and that is what I'm trying to get at. I'm trying to find out if his faith did or did not play into his decision. You are trying to make this something it isn't.

That is my issue with this, where is the missing link?
did he leave a note and say I am killing for god?
where is that?
where is your argument?
mormon, killed , that is all you have as an argument.
I am serious, not trying to be mean, I want to know the argument that makes this worth what you suggest.
It surly isnt because you were mormon, did it make you wanna shoot up schools?
If it did, that then means something to me, I will hear that, do they suggest killing?
I am not mormon, so you should be telling us, right?
not just mormon=killed....

It's like talking to a brick wall. I'm simply postulating that the pressures from his faith could have contributed to his decisioin to become violent. Could have...not did. But could have...it's a hypothetical idea until proven. Do you understand? Or do I need to break it down for you even more on an elementary level so you can see what is happening here?

 

[kashmir]

Please show me EXACTLY where I have blamed the Mormon Church for this shooting? Oh wait, I have not. I've simply made the assertion that there is a great deal of pressure on members of this faith, and I was curious (please re-read my posts for clarification, and look up the definition of the word curious) to see if this pressure played a part in his actions. Nothing more, nothing less. You really need to stop assuming, it makes you look foolish.



I never said churches were the only thing that make people snap, but in my experience as an ex-Mormon (spent 25+ years of my life involved in the church), the pressure within the church to 'perform' and 'act' as a Mormon is incredibly intense. Also, what is your bizarre fascination with bringing poly people into every discussion we have?



It may, or it may not have -- that is what I'm curious about, and which I've stated multiple times on this thread. Please read the thread before asking a question that has been asked over and over again.



You assume 'holy' means good and that this pressure is good. Imagine being forced to live a certain way. As a teenager, you really don't have a ton of control over your life choices, and with the added stress of a church who controls everything (which I've already stated), this pressure can cause people to crack. Most people go more of a depression/suicidal thoughts route, but I have seen people go the anger and violence route because of the pressure.

You obviously are ignoring the intense lifestyle that is put-upon Mormon children/teenagers. Just the Mormon lifestyle could be an entirely different thread, but you need to understand how intense it is.

Imagine being a teenager. Imagine now that someone says, you can only wear this underwear, this clothing, watch this show, listen to this music, eat this food, drink this drink and hang out with these people. Otherwise, you are 'sinning' and won't make it to heaven, but Outer Darkness (or spiritual prison). It's incredibly restrictive and suffocating for many...and some don't make it out in one piece, or even at all.



There is no proof one way or the other (unless someone has a reference link available), and that is what I'm trying to get at. I'm trying to find out if his faith did or did not play into his decision. You are trying to make this something it isn't.



It's like talking to a brick wall. I'm simply postulating that the pressures from his faith could have contributed to his decisioin to become violent. Could have...not did. But could have...it's a hypothetical idea until proven. Do you understand? Or do I need to break it down for you even more on an elementary level so you can see what is happening here?

"I am not blaming the church, but I was one of them so i know how they are"
You make statement after statement about the so much negativity about the church but claim you are not suggesting them to have a thing to do with it...
You are making no sense, you created the thread and you are the only one as far as I can tell that wants to pin it on the church if that happened to be the case, but it seems you want help to figure it out.
You have been told over and over on why the church is not to blame, you are the one like talking to a brick wall.

If the truth is what you desire, why do you not address the opposing arguments, which is all that is going on here?

Its an isolated case of one mormon of how many millions of them are there?
How many school shootings are there?

What about what I said about what I think is the real problem?
cant you address that?
That is how we come to truths, work together, not ignore everything and keep rehashing, he is mormon.....
Serious?

If you want to build a real case, I would love to help you be detective, gather info on all the school shooters and we can work together.
But since there is nothing what so ever to suggest being a mormon leads to killings.
Maybe, being pressured as a kid, and all the kids involved all their pressures discussed, then that is what we do.

Do you see the cops even talking about the church?
Do you see anyone but you?

I will listen if you bring something valid to the table, and not just
mormon...killed..discuss
Again, can you please address what I said about all the shooters and the media?
I addressed you and various churches and all kinds of things about it numerous times, who is the brick wall here?

 

[Katzpur]

I don't see how that matters.

It shouldn't. Unfortunately, to certain people, it matters a lot.

 

[Katzpur]

Why wouldn't it? She is a ex-Mormon and is very familiar with the culture.

And they tend to be more patriarchal and more race conscious than most other Christians sects.

Yeah, but do they tend to be murderers?

 

[Katzpur]

It is interesting to ME because I come from the background, and I understand the intense amount of pressure and stress that can come from trying to live like a good Mormon.

Well, let's see. There are now 15 million members of the LDS Church worldwide. There are roughly 350,000 new converts each year. How many murders per year are commited by Mormons. As a lifelong Mormon, I can honestly say that I have never felt sufficient "pressure and stress" from trying to live my religion that it has even occured to me to go off and start shooting people -- nor have I ever known another Mormon who has felt this "intense amount of pressure and stress." When you were personally under this supposed overwhelming stress, did it make you want to go out and kill someone?

 

[kashmir]

And another thing, there are a lot of picts of him, he is not even wearing the default mormon clothing, so that goes against everything you say about that area.
None of his friends are either.

Even the very article does not line up with the stuff you say about the restrictions of being a mormon.
You don't even have a case from that position.
How can you not even see that?

quotes from the article

Milliron, who knew the Padgett family said that Padgett was a deacon in the church and that he had known the 15-year-old's father for more than 25 years.
He referenced problems within the family, describing it as having 'had its ups and downs over the years' and revealed that Padgett's parents, Michael and Kristina broke up four or five years ago.
Fellow student, Edgar Machiel, 17, rode the same bus that the heavily armed Padgett did on Tuesday morning and said he was stunned that his neighbor was the shooter.
'He was just normal,' said Machiel to OregonLive. 'It doesn't make any sense. It's hard to explain.'
Another former neighbor, who wanted to remain anonymous said that Padgett was a gun enthusiast who 'had aspirations of joining the military, just like his brother.'
Other students speculating online about the release of Padgett's name recalled that he was a member of Reynolds High School's Junior Reserves Officer Training Corps.A classmate of Padgett posted on Padgett’s Facebook wall, saying: 'I had so many classes with you since 7th grade. We were always talking about guns.'
Kaylah Ensign, 15, said she always remembered Padgett's encyclopedic knowledge of weapons.
'It was insane how much he knew,' she said to OregonLive. 'He would say all the types of guns and could name anything.'

Not one word in the whole article to even suggest he was a hard core mormon.
he didnt even talk the talk or walk the walk of one.
He talked the talk of guns and military.

If he was a hardcore mormon it would have been talked about.

I think there is nothing left to see here.
The comments in the article even say "why is his religion in the title?"

Now, I have completely discussed your side of this coin, can you discuss mine now?
Plz?

 

[Katzpur]

And another thing, there are a lot of picts of him, he is not even wearing the default mormon clothing, so that goes against everything you say about that area.

Not sure what you mean by "default mormon clothing," since there really isn't such a thing. Other than that, though, your comments are right on.

I think there is nothing left to see here.
The comments in the article even say "why is his religion in the title?"

The only reason his religion is in the title is that it's "Mormon." Maybe it was mentioned because it's so out of the ordinary for a practicing Mormon to do such a thing.

 

[kashmir]

Not sure what you mean by "default mormon clothing," since there really isn't such a thing. Other than that, though, your comments are right on.

The only reason his religion is in the title is that it's "Mormon." Maybe it was mentioned because it's so out of the ordinary for a practicing Mormon to do such a thing.

I am going by what Nyph said, read what she said about the strictness.
Plus I will admit, i assume they do have default clothing, google mormon, they are all wearing white dress shirts and ties, all have dark slacks.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mor...qSyATQ4oGQDA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=653

His dad is also a deacon, they are divorced, the other deacon never said a thing about the kid being an active church member.
As I have said, nothing what so ever leads me to believe him being in a strict mormon lifestyle that Nyph is suggesting.

edit
Facebook page shows interests

On his Facebook page, Jared Padgett listed 14 apps and games he favored, including the "first-person shooter survival horror" game Area 51 and the apocalyptic adventure game Prototype, as well as the military-themed games Halo 4 and Call of Duty.

He also "liked"the Benchmade Knife Co., the Karambit Tactical Knives Co. and the Remington Arms Co., as well as a U.S. Military page and an M4 assault rifles page.

 

[Nymphs]

It shouldn't. Unfortunately, to certain people, it matters a lot.

In general, it doesn't. It could be a Christian, Muslim, Pagan, etc. But, because of the more conservative and seemingly restrictive culture of Mormonism, I'm curious to see if it played a part into what he did. In no way am I blaming it on Mormonism at all. It was the shooters fault, 100%, I'm just curious to see what led up to his decisions.

 

[Nymphs]

Well, let's see. There are now 15 million members of the LDS Church worldwide. There are roughly 350,000 new converts each year. How many murders per year are commited by Mormons. As a lifelong Mormon, I can honestly say that I have never felt sufficient "pressure and stress" from trying to live my religion that it has even occured to me to go off and start shooting people -- nor have I ever known another Mormon who has felt this "intense amount of pressure and stress." When you were personally under this supposed overwhelming stress, did it make you want to go out and kill someone?

Then you haven't been in a psychiatric ward with several other Mormon youth, have you? The pressure to perform, to be the perfect "Molly Mormon" or "Peter Priesthood" is real. While I never had serious thoughts about hurting other people, at times I entertained fleeting thoughts of violence -- and I know I'm not the only one. Instead, I turned it inward and tried to take my own life because I was so tired of trying to be something I knew I would never be. I just gave up because I felt I couldn't do it anymore.

While my reaction was more the typical in the psych wards I attended, there were also people in there for incredibly violent acts. Again, I'm not blaming the Mormon Church for this young man's actions, but you can't seriously tell me there isn't an immense amount of pressure on Mormons to live up to all the ideals and try to be 'perfect'.

You can find several studies and articles that point to Utah having a higher-than-normal depression rate as well as a higher-than-normal antidepressant rate.

Two Studies Find Depression Widespread in Utah - ABC News

Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use - Los Angeles Times

I'm glad you have never felt that immense pressure, but just because you haven't doesn't mean hundreds, if not thousands haven't. If there wasn't this immense pressure, you wouldn't have the stories that I've read. Whenever you get a religion that literally takes over every aspect of your life, you will find things like this. The Mormon Church isn't the only one.

 

[Nymphs]

And another thing, there are a lot of picts of him, he is not even wearing the default mormon clothing, so that goes against

Default mormon clothing? I think you might want to educate yourself on what you are talking about. Modesty is a standard that is stressed greatly within Mormon culture:

https://www.lds.org/topics/modesty?lang=eng

You can also see the teaching aimed directly at youth here:

https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth?lang=eng

The 'default' clothing you are referring to is probably the underwear, which you don't get until you go on a mission or get married, but the mission age has been lowered recently, so members as young as 18 and 19 can now get it. This underwear is worn the rest of your life. All of it. Under everything you wear except a swimsuit. And in my opinion, it is the ugliest thing I've ever seen.

Even the very article does not line up with the stuff you say about the restrictions of being a mormon.
You don't even have a case from that position.
How can you not even see that?

This is one article, and I've stated multiple times that I'm interested to see if this is the case (pressure from Mormonism). I'm not stating it as a fact. Have you even been reading what I've been writing or am I writing to a brick wall again?

Not one word in the whole article to even suggest he was a hard core mormon.
he didnt even talk the talk or walk the walk of one.
He talked the talk of guns and military.

Most TBM's (True Blue Mormons) support owning guns and the military, I'm not sure of your point.

If he was a hardcore mormon it would have been talked about.

Maybe, maybe not. This was a UK publication, and typically overseas publications don't get the cultural issues in the US, especially that of a US-born religion.

Now, I have completely discussed your side of this coin, can you discuss mine now?
Plz?

What point? You don't seem to have one other than not reading what I've actually written and telling me I'm wrong on my opinion and a hypothetical idea.

 

[Nymphs]

I am going by what Nyph said, read what she said about the strictness.
Plus I will admit, i assume they do have default clothing, google mormon, they are all wearing white dress shirts and ties, all have dark slacks.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mor...qSyATQ4oGQDA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=653

His dad is also a deacon, they are divorced, the other deacon never said a thing about the kid being an active church member.
As I have said, nothing what so ever leads me to believe him being in a strict mormon lifestyle that Nyph is suggesting.

edit
Facebook page shows interests

On his Facebook page, Jared Padgett listed 14 apps and games he favored, including the "first-person shooter survival horror" game Area 51 and the apocalyptic adventure game Prototype, as well as the military-themed games Halo 4 and Call of Duty.

He also "liked"the Benchmade Knife Co., the Karambit Tactical Knives Co. and the Remington Arms Co., as well as a U.S. Military page and an M4 assault rifles page.

I suggest you get a primer in Mormonism before you start talking about it like you know what you are talking about. Katzpur is a great reference for this, and you can also ask as many questions as you would like in the Mormon DIR subforum here on RF. Here is a link:

Latter-day Saints DIR - Religious Education Forum

P.S. Deacon in Christianity means something completely different than in Mormonism. Just an FYI.

 

[InChrist]

As a former member of that faith, I would want to know if his religion/belief/faith had any influence on his decision. Because Mormon is more specific than say just Christian, and because the Mormon faith tends to be more restrictive, I would want to know if this had any influence on his decisions.

I think that is a valid enough reason for your interest. I was also a Mormon at one time. Were you raised in Mormonism or did you convert?