Organic Foods No Healthier Than Ordinary Foods

[Mr Cheese]

When the research doesn't support you, rhetoric will!

Rhetoric....

well you must be young if you aren’t aware of Food Mountains.

Of course there are other factors such as population growth. Where we may no longer have enough food to go around, as we do now. Frankly I could care less if you believe me or not if I produced a nice web link, it would make me a better person, right? (Oh puhlease)

Of course the problem with global population explosion is disease. Disease and other factors will most likely kill millions as populations increase and we continue our policy of not sharing food, but selling populations genetically modified crops which in the short term feeds a population, but in the long term effects the environment in a totally undetermined way and of course increases debt to the country because instead of actually distributing wealth or food, we simply demand the third world spend more money.....

It’s a compassion based on profit.

.............

Scandal of EU waste; Anger over food mountains

Macer Hall Express - 27 January 2007

WINE lakes and butter mountains have returned to Europe.
And it's all because of overproduction by continental farmers, official figures revealed last night.
Government statistics showed that 265million bottles of wine and more than 13million tonnes of cereal, rice, sugar and milk products are being stored.
Euro-sceptic campaigners and the Tories claimed yesterday that the figures revealed the massive waste of the EU's Common Agricultural Policy.
The surpluses were revealed in a House of Commons written answer obtained by Tory MP Mike Penning.
Figures showed that last year the EU was storing 12,187,741 tonnes of cereals - enough to fill the new Wembley Stadium 12 times over.
There are 1,112,651 tonnes of sugar - enough for 445billion cups of tea; 117,831 tonnes of butter and milk, which would spread 78.5billion sandwiches and fill 252million pint bottles; and rice - 61,589 tonnes of it - for 615million curries.
Neil O'Brien, of the campaign group Open Europe, said: "Despite decades of promises, Europe still can't sort out even the ludicrous examples of waste." And Mr Penning said: "This exposes yet more profligacy by the EU. It is British taxpayers' money that pays for this nonsense.
"It is morally wrong that these products are being allowed to mount up rather than allowing them to be sold at market prices." GRAPHIC: CEREAL There's enough to fill Wembley Stadium, below, 12 times over WINE Not quite enough, perhaps, to fill Lake Windermere, but there are 265 million bottles of it in Europe's wine lake

Open Europe - independent think tank calling for radical reform of the EU

 

[Oberon]

Rhetoric....

Yes rhetoric. So far, all you have done is post a link to an anti-pesticide site and a general government site. I have yet to see you post a single citation from a peer-reviewed journal or academic publication, let alone represent the consensus of scientific inquiry into the dangers and benefits of pesticides. When you have more than a few web links to back your opinion, let me know.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Yes rhetoric. So far, all you have done is post a link to an anti-pesticide site and a general government site. I have yet to see you post a single citation from a peer-reviewed journal or academic publication, let alone represent the consensus of scientific inquiry into the dangers and benefits of pesticides. When you have more than a few web links to back your opinion, let me know.

oh please....:sarcastic

I have never seen a chinese man's nipples
Do I need citations and web links to prove that chinese men have nipples?

some people

Nothing to say on the other issues I have raised, I see...
just carrying on about carcinogens...

I would hardly call the EPA a "general governement site"
You make it sound like its deliberatly spreading misinformation....akin to a website discussing the anti christ and lizard people....:sarcastic

You want to go on thinking peer reviewed journals and weblinks are proof that non organic and genetically modified foods (and the motivations for using them) are a good thing, fine. I'll examine ALL the issues.

Non organic farming has its pluses, so does high yield crops. But to simply ignore the problems is rather simplistic.

oooh look I can run google, I'm special.... do I win a cookie?:

Chronic systemic pesticide exposure reproduces features of Parkinson's disease - Nature Neuroscience

The cause of Parkinson's disease (PD) is unknown, but epidemiological studies suggest an association with pesticides and other environmental toxins, and biochemical studies implicate a systemic defect in mitochondrial complex I. We report that chronic, systemic inhibition of complex I by the lipophilic pesticide, rotenone, causes highly selective nigrostriatal dopaminergic degeneration that is associated behaviorally with hypokinesia and rigidity.

...........

http://www.communityipm.org/ToxicTrail/Documents/Rola-Pingali.pdf

Pesticide use in the Philippines cuts rice productivity instead of improving it when the associated health costs are counted as a production cost. Rice pesticides are among the most toxic agrochemicals. Therefore, even though the Philippines' overall use of pesticides may seem insignificant next to worldwide data, the use of pesticides on rice in the Philippines is increasingly problematic.​

 

[Oberon]

oh please....:sarcastic

I have never seen a chinese man's nipples
Do I need citations and web links to prove that chinese men have nipples?

some people

No. But when you are making claims about health risks associated with pesticide use you should have a lot more than some anti-pesticide website. You should be able to represent the scientific literature.

Nothing to say on the other issues I have raised, I see...

You haven't raised any other issues. All you've done is post an anti-pesticide site's article. Where is the peer-reviewed data? The analysis of studies? and so forth.

I would hardly call the EPA a "general governement site"

The EPA homepage is.

You want to go on thinking peer reviewed journals and weblinks are proof that non organic and genetically modified foods (and the motivations for using them) are a good thing, fine. I'll examine ALL the issues.

I'm not the one posting weblinks. And yes, when I want answers to scientific questions, I'll go to the experts. I'll search through Academic Search Premier and JSTOR for the relevant articles

Non organic farming has its pluses, so does high yield crops. But to simply ignore the problems is rather simplistic.

What problem? There is no evidence that our best pesticides are dangerous to humans, any more than the natural toxins in the plants. There is plenty to suggest that they are excellent at controlling pests. Like the pest control used in organic farming, they can harm the environment. However, when properly applied, this isn't a big problem.

oooh look I can run google, I'm special.... do I win a cookie?:

Did you read the article? They used rat tests. There is a serious problem with using rat tests, because they give the rats high-doses of the chemical in order to get results. The problem is they create results simply by doing that. The same tests applied to natural toxins in plants give rats all sorts of diseases to.

 

[monta]

I saw a documentary on the increase of phytoestrogens , which cause low sperm count in men and animals and increase the rates of testicular cancer as well as breast cancer in the affected populations (those with large amounts phytoestrogens in the water table) and was causing hermaphrodytism in frogs! These estrogens aren't the naturally occuring kind, and are in the environment due to the use of certain pesticides, the documentary was in Irish though.

I will see if I can find it in English...I can't. But there is some info on the webz.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15679266
http://www.academiavita.org/templat...=testo/dig_procr/mancuso/mancuso&lang=english

 

[Oberon]

Eh...I'll just pass then. I'm interested, but not interested enough to do any amount of work beyond clicking a link. lol

Well, I went through the trouble for you (and others) Herei is a linke to the articele:

Nutritional Quality of Organic Foods
There are a few pop ops but this leads you direcly to the full document. Clink the link stating "clink here to download."

 

[Mr Cheese]

I saw a documentary on the increase of phytoestrogens , which cause low sperm count in men and animals and increase the rates of testicular cancer as well as breast cancer in the affected populations (those with large amounts phytoestrogens in the water table) and was causing hermaphrodytism in frogs! These estrogens aren't the naturally occuring kind, and are in the environment due to the use of certain pesticides, the documentary was in Irish though.

I will see if I can find it in English...I can't. But there is some info on the webz.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15679266

Its not got a peer reviewed Journal at Jstor that can be read by university and bible college students

Therefore it is worthless

Wake up:clap

 

[Oberon]

Its not got a peer reviewed Journal at Jstor that can be read by university and bible college students

Therefore it is worthless

Wake up:clap

It is a peer reviewed journal. Comparative Medicine. The problem, however, the same as when so many chemicals are tested. When you stuff a ton of a chemical down their throat, whether it is a pesticide or a chemical naturally occuring in apples, they will get sick. Did you read the full article? Basically it suggests that at high doses some pesticides may have adverse health effects on fish.

 

[Mr Cheese]

It is a peer reviewed journal. Comparative Medicine. The problem, however, the same as when so many chemicals are tested. When you stuff a ton of a chemical down their throat, whether it is a pesticide or a chemical naturally occuring in apples, they will get sick. Did you read the full article? Basically it suggests that at high doses some pesticides may have adverse health effects on fish.

so?

You say nothing....why pretend otherwise?

 

[Oberon]

so?

You say nothing....why pretend otherwise?

I summarized the article. It does not support any conclusions as to the dangers of pesticides on humans. Moreover, it says very little about the dangers period.