Origen of souls

[Humanistheart]

I realize soul is not quite the right word, but whatever you want to call that part of you that trancends death, where does it originate from? Some are reincarnated, they came from previous lives, but where did they start from? Where did a person with no past lives essensce come from?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I realize soul is not quite the right word, but whatever you want to call that part of you that trancends death, where does it originate from? Some are reincarnated, they came from previous lives, but where did they start from? Where did a person with no past lives essensce come from?

Hi Humanistheart,... good question,... sure.. soul is OK to use, (at least in this company) or spirit incarnate, etc..

The souls's essential underlying nature is the eternal infinite and therefore never had an origin, it is without beginning and without end in space and time.

There is no such thing as a person whose incarnate soul essence is not the synthesis of the results of past incarnated life experiences.

However, the very first incarnation of spirit as a human soul is the result of having completed the evolutionary consciousness unfoldment derived from past lives in the animal kingdom.

 

[Humanistheart]

Hi Humanistheart,... good question,... sure.. soul is OK to use, (at least in this company) or spirit incarnate, etc..

The souls's essential underlying nature is the eternal infinite and therefore never had an origin, it is without beginning and without end in space and time.

There is no such thing as a person whose incarnate soul essence is not the synthesis of the results of past incarnated life experiences.

However, the very first incarnation of spirit as a human soul is the result of having completed the evolutionary consciousness unfoldment derived from past lives in the animal kingdom.

Thanks for the responce, but I'm confused. If the soul has no beggining, but the world and the incarnate bodies that house the soul did have a beggining, so where where the souls before they had bodies? Where did the animals spirit's come from?

 

[EtuMalku]

I realize soul is not quite the right word, but whatever you want to call that part of you that trancends death, where does it originate from? Some are reincarnated, they came from previous lives, but where did they start from? Where did a person with no past lives essensce come from?

Your soul and your Higher-Self escape the physical death. But your soul can eventually perish if not adequately evolved.

The soul is your Astral Double, it is the subtle body that is created as a tool in order for your Higher-Self and Lower-Self to communicate while incarnated in this Physical Realm.

The origin lies with your Higher-Self and the Principles of the Universe.

Being the Atheist that you are, you may be interested in the concepts of the soul as they are explained by Theosophy.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Thanks for the responce, but I'm confused. If the soul has no beggining, but the world and the incarnate bodies that house the soul did have a beggining, so where where the souls before they had bodies? Where did the animals spirit's come from?

All that exists at this very moment is all that ever existed and is all that will ever exist, there was never a beginning and there never will be an ending.
Sure stars have beginnings and endings just like mortals, and at this very moment there are births of new (reincarnation actually) stars taking place, and also deaths of old ones, but the actual cosmic process of creation and destruction never had a beginning. New stars are merely made of the essence of recycled pre-existing cosmic creation, new humans are merely made of the essence of pre-existing creation,... creation and destruction is a ceaseless activity.

IOW, the concept of origins, beginnings, births, etc., only apply to finite things, not to the infinite.

The essence of souls is eternal, but a specific soul is finite and therefore had a beginning and will have an ending but there never was a moment in all eternity that there wasn't souls. There isn't a moment in all eternity when there isn't galactic spirits, stellar spirits, planetary spirits, human spirits, animal spirits, plant spirits, atomic spirits, electron spirits, etc., incarnate, but the essence of all is constituted of uncreated cosmic universal spirit that fills infinity.

Animal spirits came through the plant kingdom, the spirits of the plant kingdom came from the mineral kingdom, mineral or elemental spirits come from the universal cosmic spiritual field. The migration of spirits through the hierarchy of finite creation is a vast subject, but essentially it involves the concept of involutional differentiation of the pure omnipresent cosmic spirit into denser and denser planes of creation until the densest material plane is reached and then the concept of evolutionary integration takes place as spirit returns its original uncreated pure state. Again remember the very process of involution and evolution itself never had a beginning, nor will it ever have an ending.

Humility is required by the mortal mind to resist attributing to the Cosmos, the same finite constraints that apply to it, eg. beginnings and an endings, limited local perspectives and perceptions, etc..

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I realize soul is not quite the right word, but whatever you want to call that part of you that trancends death, where does it originate from? Some are reincarnated, they came from previous lives, but where did they start from? Where did a person with no past lives essensce come from?

Belief of what the nature of the soul (Atman) is differ widely in Indian Philosophy. Here are just two of the many views of Indian thought on the nature of the soul.

The Carvaka ( This view started around 600 bc ) believes that the soul is not permanent, it begins and ends with our body. It is just consciousness due to chemical reactions of the combination of the 5 elements. The soul starts at birth and ends at death.

My view, the Advaita Vedanta school of thought, believes that the soul is eternal,infinite and is of the nature of pure consciousness. It is only due to our ignorance that we believe that we are separate beings. This separation creates suffering and misery. Only when we know that all is God and we are one with God do we become liberated and live in a unalloyed state of bliss. To make a long story short. God our souls and the cosmos are all One and It has no beginning or end.

 

[Founder]

Life is an energy similar to gravity, electromagnetism, and the nuclear energies. Unlike other energies life is aware of itself and has purpose. Life's purpose as we can understand it is to express itself within this universe as fully as it is able. As all energy, life energy cannot be created or destroyed however the ability of life to express itself is limited.
Mankind is an expression of life and all human beings are a part of the life energy that permiates the universe. Being part of life mankind should understand the value of all life and have as our moral guide the purpose of aiding in the expression of life on earth and the universe by all its forms. For more indepth you can go to thelifereligon.org

 

[Humanistheart]

So, judging by the threads, there's no real concencus on this?

 

[LionDog1]

I believe the soul of all creatures is their animated state. Take their life away and and that soul dies.

 

[Madhuri]

I realize soul is not quite the right word, but whatever you want to call that part of you that trancends death, where does it originate from? Some are reincarnated, they came from previous lives, but where did they start from? Where did a person with no past lives essensce come from?

The Vaishnava traditions teach that the soul is part of the marignal potency of God. Just as God can never be created or destroyed, neither can his energy and all in this universe is a manifestation of that energy. Every soul is a point of awareness. However, although all souls have existed eternally, not all necessarily have existed in this universe eternally. We begin in what is known as the Viraj river, in a neutral state of awareness, and gradually are brought into material existence.

You can probably already gather that from this belief system, all living entities, animals and plants, bacteria etc are souls. No body can come to life without a soul, as the soul -is- life.

 

[Runewolf1973]

All that exists at this very moment is all that ever existed and is all that will ever exist, there was never a beginning and there never will be an ending.
Sure stars have beginnings and endings just like mortals, and at this very moment there are births of new (reincarnation actually) stars taking place, and also deaths of old ones, but the actual cosmic process of creation and destruction never had a beginning. New stars are merely made of the essence of recycled pre-existing cosmic creation, new humans are merely made of the essence of pre-existing creation,... creation and destruction is a ceaseless activity.

IOW, the concept of origins, beginnings, births, etc., only apply to finite things, not to the infinite.

The essence of souls is eternal, but a specific soul is finite and therefore had a beginning and will have an ending but there never was a moment in all eternity that there wasn't souls. There isn't a moment in all eternity when there isn't galactic spirits, stellar spirits, planetary spirits, human spirits, animal spirits, plant spirits, atomic spirits, electron spirits, etc., incarnate, but the essence of all is constituted of uncreated cosmic universal spirit that fills infinity.

Animal spirits came through the plant kingdom, the spirits of the plant kingdom came from the mineral kingdom, mineral or elemental spirits come from the universal cosmic spiritual field. The migration of spirits through the hierarchy of finite creation is a vast subject, but essentially it involves the concept of involutional differentiation of the pure omnipresent cosmic spirit into denser and denser planes of creation until the densest material plane is reached and then the concept of evolutionary integration takes place as spirit returns its original uncreated pure state. Again remember the very process of involution and evolution itself never had a beginning, nor will it ever have an ending.

Humility is required by the mortal mind to resist attributing to the Cosmos, the same finite constraints that apply to it, eg. beginnings and an endings, limited local perspectives and perceptions, etc..

You've been around for some time haven't you. Excellent post. Now that is understanding. Everything that exists is conscious, down the atomic level and even further. It is that consciousness that makes even energy itself take vibrational form and gives it the ability to change form. Energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, so that means that the vibrational frequencies of energy will never cease or be destroyed either. Consciousness can not be destroyed, it can only change it's vibrational level. It has always existed and will continue to do so infinitely.

 

[LionDog1]

irateefinitions of mortal on the Web:

:yoda:Subject to death; in such a manner that death ensues; Death is the permanent termination of the biological functions that define a living organism. It refers to both a particular event and to the condition that results thereby.

:nightcraw:Soul:

:bow:Greek: Psuche: life, mind, you, me, them, heart, heartily.

:beach:Hebrew: Nephesh: creature, thing, life, the life, beast, breath, fish, her, person, any, man, one, yourselves, themselves, he, herself, them - selves, basucally all appetites and desires. Also exercizing mental faculties, manifested feelings, affections, and passions. Nephesh is also described as being mortal subject to death. Nephesh is also described as being dead, a dead body, and just a body.

:clapThe English word "soul" is from the Latin solus = alone or sole, because the maintenance of man as a living organism, and all that affects his health and well - being, is the one sole or main thing in common with every living thing. The correct Latin word for the theological term "soul" (or nephesh) is anima; and this is from the Greek anemos = air or breath, because it is this which keeps the whole in life and in being.

Nothing mystical about a soul, nothing undying about a soul, a soul is simply the creature itself.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Question :Challenge for dharmic religions!

Ya like this question .Its attacks all dharmic religions.I have not found an answer to this .I state is it thus

"I know that the soul is eternal,and it will reincarnate until nirvana.After which it will exist in its original and eternal state devoid of material identification.I want to know from when the soul have got to identify with the body and started reincarnating.Simply put when that this samsara start??And why did this thing start??"

I am asking u when this illusion start.I know energy was never created,but when has the energy got entwined with the matter??

 

[Madhuri]

Question :Challenge for dharmic religions!

Ya like this question .Its attacks all dharmic religions.I have not found an answer to this .I state is it thus

"I know that the soul is eternal,and it will reincarnate until nirvana.After which it will exist in its original and eternal state devoid of material identification.I want to know from when the soul have got to identify with the body and started reincarnating.Simply put when that this samsara start??And why did this thing start??"

I am asking u when this illusion start.I know energy was never created,but when has the energy got entwined with the matter??

When Vishnu recreates the universe, the souls come to populate the planets from the Viraj river, which is the marginal potency of God. Those that are naturally attracted to material life will come here and from the very moment they enter a body the cycle begins. Again, for many. the souls in this material universe are a natural part of it. Identifiction with the body probably only arises when the soul enters a body that is capable of self reflection. I don't think that lower forms of life are relly capable of even thinking about it, though simultaneously they are unaware of anything other than the body.

Does any of this answer you question?

 

[Metempsychosis]

When Vishnu recreates the universe, the souls come to populate the planets from the Viraj river, which is the marginal potency of God. Those that are naturally attracted to material life will come here and from the very moment they enter a body the cycle begins. Again, for many. the souls in this material universe are a natural part of it. Identifiction with the body probably only arises when the soul enters a body that is capable of self reflection. I don't think that lower forms of life are relly capable of even thinking about it, though simultaneously they are unaware of anything other than the body.

Does any of this answer you question?

Partially,but the answer is mythological.Where did u take this concept?Puranas?A mythological concept of original sin is present in abrahamic religions.It does not any logic however.Looking for better answer.

 

[Madhuri]

Partially,but the answer is mythological.Where did u take this concept?Puranas?A mythological concept of original sin is present in abrahamic religions.It does not any logic however.Looking for better answer.

My understanding is from the Srimad Bhagavatam and I do not see it is mythological. What aspect of 'the soul is part of the marginal potency of God' is mythological? Maybe you don't believe in God/Vishnu? I do.

 

[Metempsychosis]

My understanding is from the Srimad Bhagavatam and I do not see it is mythological. What aspect of 'the soul is part of the marginal potency of God' is mythological? Maybe you don't believe in God/Vishnu? I do.

I feel the answer cannot be absorbed by human mind.Some more information on the soul split from God from Srimad Bhagavatam is welcome.Also if u have read the Puranas , it is mentioned that,the creation of universe is play of Brahma.

Actually i stopped reading this Srimad Bhagavatam few years back, after reading a commentary from Srila Prabhupada,who makes it point to bring all Advaitins in bad light.Same goes for his commentary on Bhagavat Gita--they are biased towards Dvaita and make a vitriolic attack against other sects.

Maybe you don't believe in God/Vishnu? Yes i am theist.Forgot that u are from Gaudiya Vaishnava sect.

 

[Madhuri]

I feel the answer cannot be absorbed by human mind.Some more information on the soul split from God from Srimad Bhagavatam is welcome.Also if u have read the Puranas , it is mentioned that,the creation of universe is play of Brahma.

Actually i stopped reading this Srimad Bhagavatam few years back, after reading a commentary from Srila Prabhupada,who makes it point to bring all Advaitins in bad light.Same goes for his commentary on Bhagavat Gita--they are biased towards Dvaita and make a vitriolic attack against other sects.

Maybe you don't believe in God/Vishnu? Yes i am theist.Forgot that u are from Gaudiya Vaishnava sect.

Of course the human mind cannot fully comprehend whatever the reality is...but then why ask the question or expect an answer?

I agree that Prabhupada is very biased. I disagree with him on many points.

Does the soul 'split' from God? I don't think it does. The soul is eternally individual. Unless I am misunderstanding the question?

Yes, Brahma does create the material universe. That does not include the souls. It is also described that Maha Vishnu creates the universes with his outgoing breathe. The Srimad Bhagavatam does, at places, say that its descriptions are allegorical because humans are incapable of understanding the actual reality. For instance, the part about Brahma being born from Vishnu's naval. Those things I accept as being metaphorical.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Of course the human mind cannot fully comprehend whatever the reality is...but then why ask the question or expect an answer?

Yes , because i never got any clue to answer the question from scriptures.These questions prop up as rationalist question the "process of transmigration".