Origins of the Quran/Islam - various academic perspectives

[outhouse]

Your arrogance is nauseating

Attacking me is an obvious move of desperation on your part, because you could not address my reply in any way.


I mean why would a god tell an angel to tell a so called prophet, Israelite mythology that never took place, and we know is a literary creation in religious context of allegory and metaphor to teach morals????

 

[muhammad_isa]

Attacking me is an obvious move of desperation on your part, because you could not address my reply in any way.


I mean why would a god tell an angel to tell a so called prophet, Israelite mythology that never took place..

There you go again .. come on then .. let's see this evidence of yours that is beyond doubt

..evidence that the God of Abraham is mythology..

I get it that you don't believe in Him, but to categorically state that it's academic knowledge that God is a myth is really pathetic nonsense.

Strange isn't it, that the Jews tend to earn their living professionally, and have a huge interest in academia. You really are deluded, you know

 

[outhouse]

evidence that the God of Abraham is mythology..

you are not addressing my reply

you are moving goal post, I did not claim that

 

[muhammad_isa]

you are not addressing my reply

you are moving goal post, I did not claim that

What!? It was only a couple of posts ago..

..why would a god tell an angel to tell a so called prophet, Israelite mythology that never took place? ..

 

[outhouse]

I mean why would a god tell an angel to tell a so called prophet, Israelite mythology that never took place, and we know is a literary creation in religious context of allegory and metaphor to teach morals????

You could try and answer the question

 

[Shad]

Your arrogance is nauseating .. all you are doing is discrediting history as a subject. Fortunately, I'm not so stupid as to take much notice

I'm only discussing with you in a rational manner, but you continue to be extremely biased and illogical .. nevermind..

Not really. You just refuse to accept the position that the supernatural is not part of history as a source. The belief in the supernatural is a source. However this does not mean historians will conclude that a belief is a historical fact as to what the source of such belief is when history do not accept the supernatural at all. History will always be reduced to a human or natural explanation. God isn't either.

 

[outhouse]

What!? It was only a couple of posts ago..

I stated quite clearly that why would god say something?

NOT god does not exist.


How you reached that conclusion is beyond me because I did not even imply what you stated I did.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I stated quite clearly that why would god say something?

NOT god does not exist.

No .. no
You actually said 'a god' didn't you? Are you not familiar with the word 'God' with a capital G, or maybe you just refuse to recognise it?
ie. as the God of Abraham who created and maintains the universe

 

[muhammad_isa]

..historians will conclude that a belief is a historical fact as to what the source of such belief is when history do not accept the supernatural at all..

Historians don't have to conclude anything! They just have to 'say what they see' .. their conclusions about whether God exists is their own business.

 

[Shad]

Historians don't have to conclude anything! They just have to 'say what they see' .. their conclusions about whether God exists is their own business.

By not including the supernatural and "God speak" as a viable source that is a conclusion in itself. That revelation and other "God-Speak" is of no value as a method nor a conclusion.

 

[outhouse]

You actually said 'a god' didn't you?

Yes. a god because YOUR god is not the god of Christianity or Judaism, it is just one god of many.

But do you know what the word CONTEXT means????


The context was that a god talked to someone and repeated mythology, NOT if a god existed.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..That revelation and other "God-Speak" is of no value as a method nor a conclusion.

I don't really see what that has to do with history. We possess scriptures of various orogins. We can use our intelligence ( and perhaps more importantly conscience & heart ) to ascertain their truth.

If you don't believe the Qur'an is true, fine! To say that historians have proved it not to be from God is tommyrot!

It's impossible to say that Abraham did not exist .. that Noah's flood did not take place etc.
You might feel it highly unlikely and have found no evidence to substantiate .. but that is not proof beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[outhouse]

We can use our intelligence ( and perhaps more importantly conscience & heart ) to ascertain their truth.

False. Intelligence would indicate credible methods of study and academic education.

And most people do not use intelligence and favor faith and faith alone.

You only posit faith and nothing but faith

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yes. a god because YOUR god is not the god of Christianity or Judaism, it is just one god of many.

Don't waste your time with "divide & rule" .. you claim that it's academic knowledge that the God of Abraham is fiction (myth). That is your conclusion, not history's.

 

[outhouse]

To say that historians have proved it not to be from God is tommyrot!

Actually it is not as such.

Scientifically no god exist. Science does not have to prove they do not exist. There is nothing to test for at this time.

Historians however have shown with certainty many stories are mythological in nature and not historical.

Historians show that factually noah and moses and abaraham have no historcity as ever existing. Factually they are faith based and only faith based literary creations at this time

 

[muhammad_isa]

And most people do not use intelligence and favor faith and faith alone..

Who cares what most people might do!?
You claim that it's academic knowledge that the God of Abraham is fiction. That is NOT true.

 

[outhouse]

you claim that it's academic knowledge that the God of Abraham is fiction (myth).

Please pay attention. It is not honest when one changes context of the discussion.

Saying your personal god is not that of Christianity or Judaism, is not saying god is fictional. In context I am pointing out they are not the same god concept.

 

[outhouse]

You claim that that it's academic knowledge that the God of Abraham is fiction

Please supply my quote where I said exactly that. Maybe we are having issues that deal with language interpretation

 

[outhouse]

Your showing a failure to communicate here. It would help if you replied to questions in a straight forward manner.

And did not take my quotes and replies out of context.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Please supply my quote where I said exactly that. Maybe we are having issues that deal with language interpretation

What .. again?

I mean why would a god tell an angel to tell a so called prophet, Israelite mythology that never took place..

So what are you saying now? That the OT is 'Israelite mythology' but the God of Abraham might still exist? Oh boy!