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Orwell was a prophet?

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
So I woke up to the radio this morning and there was a news story about how defunding and cutting the police force will be make us "safe". I immediately thought of Orwell's "new speak" and how in his book 1984 the government speaks in opposites. War is peace etc. So now we're safer when we have less police funding.

If people haven't figured it out yet; the whole imitative to defund the police is not to do away with a police state. It's to replace the police with a new kind of police that will be political. If you think I'm joking then just let these creeps take over. They want a political police force that polices you for thought crimes.

Although the current American police definitely are far from perfect and could use some change; yet I'd be an idiot to trust these runaway Orwellian nightmare creeps that want to replace them. :rolleyes:

Cults represent Orwellian's dystopia in 1984 the best. I think that North Korea would be the closest to that society.

America is far from being an Orwellian dystopia. Too much free speech and open disagreement.

[Edit] All societies have some aspects to them that are components of the Orwellian Dystopia. There has to be a certain amount of them done in certain ways for a society to even be approaching the dystopia.
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
It won't work. Money won't solve police training issues. It won't address the "pay to play" legal system. It won't do anything for privatized prisons. It will not address oppressive laws that do nothing good except turn non violent people into criminals.
Wait, you guys have private prisons? How does that work?

That said, I grew up basically watching even American shows criticising the police department for being a bunch of military minded ********. Though also caught in an awful system. So I mean, maybe spending money elsewhere and on better training techniques isn’t such a bad idea? I dunno. But you guys need to do something
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
'Scuse my sarcasm but ... that gushing propaganda piece *article* has convinced me. I must say, they seem particularly awesome if ... I was the kind of person that just believed everything verbatim without reading between the lines. I can't wait until these guys take over every city in America and fix all our problems.

Orwell's work was a warning against propaganda and double speak. You have to understand what kind of world we're living in.

And I love it when people call me republican or democrat depending on who I'm disagreeing with at the moment. Or pretend I care what Orwell believed. Let's stay on topic. Orwell is against propaganda and double speak. Against changing the language for political ends and generally mind raping people into submission by tyrannical governments.

I despise the republican party as ultimately being controlled by a lot of probable sexual predators. I even despise the current police establishment as being controlled at the top by a lot of satanic cultists; but I'm not falling for the new scam either. It's just part of a truly twisted agenda as far as I can tell and no one has convinced me otherwise. The thing I worry about is that I can't see through all the evil they're constantly pushing on people.
Satanic cults? Geez, I know cops aren’t popular right now. But they’re just people.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
You're first in this thread to use conservative or liberal in this thread. Those terms are broad in definition and scope. They can mean a lot of different things.

I am not left or right wing. I'm not a sheeple. I think that grading system is by design because the phoenix which is the true bird on the seal of the United States. Commonly mistaken for an eagle. But my point is ... two wings but one bird. No matter who is in power the agenda keeps going forward. It's order out of chaos, out of many one. The phoenix rises out of ashes. They have to burn down the old to bring in the new. Bottom line: two party system is just a control mechanism to keep you in check.

The goal is the new world order.
I want you to realize that you said this in the paragraph above:
I think that grading system is by design because the phoenix which is the true bird on the seal of the United States.
It may as well be worded thusly: "I think the two party system is by design because phoenix." What are you talking about?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So I woke up to the radio this morning and there was a news story about how defunding and cutting the police force will be make us "safe". I immediately thought of Orwell's "new speak" and how in his book 1984 the government speaks in opposites. War is peace etc. So now we're safer when we have less police funding.

If people haven't figured it out yet; the whole imitative to defund the police is not to do away with a police state. It's to replace the police with a new kind of police that will be political. If you think I'm joking then just let these creeps take over. They want a political police force that polices you for thought crimes.

Although the current American police definitely are far from perfect and could use some change; yet I'd be an idiot to trust these runaway Orwellian nightmare creeps that want to replace them. :rolleyes:

I don't think they really want to defund the police. I think politicians say things like that to placate an angry public, but when push comes to shove, they're just not going to do it. Besides, I don't think it's a matter of defunding the police, as this problem seems more an issue with the courts and the judges who let the police get away with brutality and malfeasance.

There also needs to be greater transparency, with both the police and the courts. Maybe what we need is a kind of reverse Orwellian society, where Big Brother is the one being watched - by the citizenry.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
So I woke up to the radio this morning and there was a news story about how defunding and cutting the police force will be make us "safe". I immediately thought of Orwell's "new speak" and how in his book 1984 the government speaks in opposites. War is peace etc. So now we're safer when we have less police funding.

If people haven't figured it out yet; the whole imitative to defund the police is not to do away with a police state. It's to replace the police with a new kind of police that will be political. If you think I'm joking then just let these creeps take over. They want a political police force that polices you for thought crimes.

Although the current American police definitely are far from perfect and could use some change; yet I'd be an idiot to trust these runaway Orwellian nightmare creeps that want to replace them. :rolleyes:
Try a different radio channel once in a while and you might learn something about the real world.
 
I love it when Republicans pretend Orwell (the guy who fought with Marxist militia in the Spanish Civil War, who identified as somewhere between social anarchist and democratic socialist) was right wing. Like...have they actually read any of these books?

Anyway, most nations with lower crime per capita have far less police, far less paramilitarized (or straight up militarized) police.
Giving a ton of power and little oversight to police is comically authoritarian and should be discouraged. (did a crime? Guess you deserve to die)
Those same countries also adequately address homelessness, mental illness and drug use outside the police system by trained professionals who specialize in it, and as a result have far less preventable injuries on both sides.
Perfect. Thank you. It’s fascinating to me when Republicans claim Orwell without having read what he actually said or having much of an understanding of his views.

Same for Jesus, Adam Smith, Thomas Paine ... heck, even Dr King.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Perfect. Thank you. It’s fascinating to me when Republicans claim Orwell without having read what he actually said or having much of an understanding of his views.

Same for Jesus, Adam Smith, Thomas Paine ... heck, even Dr King.
No, it's actually not perfect. I'm not Republican as I've already said.

I disagree with tyranny which is what Orwell was clearly against in his books like 1984 and Animal Farm. He was appalled by Stalin and the revolution in general that was in Russia. He did not approve of that at all.
 
No, it's actually not perfect. I'm not Republican as I've already said.

I disagree with tyranny which is what Orwell was clearly against in his books like 1984 and Animal Farm. He was appalled by Stalin and the revolution in general that was in Russia. He did not approve of that at all.
That is true. I just think it’s a bit of a leap to presume what Orwell would think about modern-day policing and how it’s funded, on the basis of how Orwell felt about Stalin. It’s hard to translate Orwell’s early 20th century opposition to Stalin into early 21st century support for plenty of police funding.

His views, and the debate around police funding, both, are a bit more complex than drawing a line from one to the other.

I get that you are drawing a parallel between the counter-intuitive notion of “defunding the police will make us safer”, to Orwellian doublespeak.

The difference is that Orwell was referring to contradictory uses of the English language **without** reason or evidence behind it, only supported by party loyalty and repetition.

The concept of defunding the police, while certainly counter-intuitive in some respects, and clearly debatable, is based on the premise that we need to look **more closely** at the issue of police and safety than we have in the past. It is based on applying **more** reasoning and evidence to issues of homelessness and drug addiction. You might disagree with it - and that would be reasonable - but it’s actually fully within Orwell’s spirit of questioning heavy-handed authority, instead of blindly accepting it.

Orwell also wrote Down and Out in Paris and London, in which he documented the way the law in the UK forced the homeless to stay on the move and made it difficult for them to get back on their feet. Observers at the time thought there was something primal about wandering groups of men, never settling down and always on the move, like ancient hunter-gatherers. Orwell said it was actually an unnatural consequence of unemployment and the law, which prevented the UK homeless from staying in one shelter for a long period of time.

If one wants to draw parallels between Orwell and modern-day policing of homelessness and drug addiction, I would start there. And I would guess Orwell would be sympathetic to the view that mass incarceration in the US today is an unnatural consequence of social problems plus the way they are policed, much like the bands of wandering “hobos” in Orwell’s day were an unnatural consequence of analogous forces.

It is important to note that Orwell believed in the importance of thinking objectively and critically, above all else. He looked at socialism especially critically because he **was** a socialist. He looked at Britain especially critically because he **was** British. In his view when you agreed with something, that was the time to take a second look and apply even **more** critical thought to it.

His views and writings go quite beyond 1984 and Animal Farm, which sadly get all the attention because their criticism focused on Stalinism.
 
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