Otto Warmbier is dead.

[Twilight Hue]

While I felt the poster that he stole in North Korea was juvenile and should have understood their laws better,. the treatment he received in North Korea was appallingly brutal and underserved.

I struggled as to wether to put this in memorials or other category, but decided discussion would be most appropriate out of respect for this young man.

Half of me would like to see military action taken to remove Kim from power once and for all, but in light of his disregarding North Korean law, this should serve a strong message about people entering hostile foreign nations at ones own risk to their health and safety.

What are your feelings on the matter?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I wish we would just topple them already.

 

[Flankerl]

What are your feelings on the matter?

Don't be an idiot, don't visit North Korea.

 

[George-ananda]

What are your feelings on the matter?

Did you know Otto's father says he never actually stole the banner but that we was arrested at the airport as a warning and a bargaining chip against US sanctions. It seems so far his father has proven to be a more accurate source of information than the North Korean government. He claims Otto was forced to make the confession of guilt.

From Wikipedia:

A video purporting to show the theft was released by state-run Korean Central News Agency on March 18, 2016. In the 18-second low-resolution video, an unrecognizable figure removes the sign from the wall and places it on the floor, leaning it against the wall. This action is shown twice, followed by a higher-resolution picture of the sign on the wall. The face of the person removing the poster is not seen during the video clip.[27][3]

I'm not planning to visit anytime soon!

 

[Nous]

Half of me would like to see military action taken to remove Kim from power once and for all

Yeah, half of me thinks the same. Then the other half thinks of the fact that North Korean has nuclear warheads pointing toward Japan and China. Then a third half of me shivers at the thought of Trump being command-in-chief during a nuclear war.

 

[Nous]

Did you know Otto's father says he never actually stole the banner but that we was arrested at the airport as a warning and a bargaining chip against US sanctions. It seems so far his father has proven to be a more accurate source of information than the North Korean government. He claims Otto was forced to make the confession of guilt.

From Wikipedia:

A video purporting to show the theft was released by state-run Korean Central News Agency on March 18, 2016. In the 18-second low-resolution video, an unrecognizable figure removes the sign from the wall and places it on the floor, leaning it against the wall. This action is shown twice, followed by a higher-resolution picture of the sign on the wall. The face of the person removing the poster is not seen during the video clip.[27][3]

I did not know that. Thank you for that info. It's horrifying, but not horribly surprising.

It isn't uncommon for people to have noble reasons to go to places where hostilities are being exchanged, such as to give aid to refugees. Unfortunately, Warmbier's visit to North Korea wasn't that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Did you know Otto's father says he never actually stole the banner but that we was arrested at the airport as a warning and a bargaining chip against US sanctions. It seems so far his father has proven to be a more accurate source of information than the North Korean government. He claims Otto was forced to make the confession of guilt.

From Wikipedia:

A video purporting to show the theft was released by state-run Korean Central News Agency on March 18, 2016. In the 18-second low-resolution video, an unrecognizable figure removes the sign from the wall and places it on the floor, leaning it against the wall. This action is shown twice, followed by a higher-resolution picture of the sign on the wall. The face of the person removing the poster is not seen during the video clip.[27][3]

I'm not planning to visit anytime soon!

Me either. Not without an army.

It's even more worrysome now concerning the other Americans still imprisoned in North Korea.

I hear stories too that a considerable portion of Otto's brain matter was missing as well.

 

[Grumpuss]

I shudder to think what the U.S. gave up, in order to secure Warmbier's release. It's not quite on the same level as the Japanese giving peace medals to U.S. officials as their strike fleet was about to attack Pearl Harbor, but it's pretty close.

States that take our citizens hostage know it's a weakness, because we treat our citizens a thousand times better than they do, and we're going to want them back. For example, President Obama traded five vicious, terrorist Taliban savages in exchange for one Bowe Bergdahl, a cowardly, flaky deserter, that faces a life sentence in Leavenworth. So we'd rather get one of our deeply flawed citizens back, just to throw him in prison, while the fanatics get 5 bloodthirsty soldiers who will likely try to kill us all over again. Countries that therefore have opportunity to snatch our people will do so, if just to gain a bargaining chip.

It's a painful reminder that the United States is more civilized than the godless wastelands of Iran, Mexico or North Korea. Not for a second does it ever cross our minds to kidnap their people, or send them to prison on trumped-up charges.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's a painful reminder that the United States is more civilized than the godless wastelands of Iran, Mexico or North Korea. Not for a second does it ever cross our minds to kidnap their people, or send them to prison on trumped-up charges.

Iran and Mexico are 'godless wastelands' now?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

RIP Otto. Something about this is strange though. Just seems there is more to it. I doubt we ever get the full story.

 

[Grumpuss]

Iran and Mexico are 'godless wastelands' now?

Well they certainly don't seem to be a bundle of fun, do they?

 

[Viraja]

I feel so sorry for the kid, Otto.

I feel that someone had tactfully made him confess into stealing some banner, and then he was given the prison sentence out of trickery and deceit...

It is all a big mystery... no one knows exactly how he got into all this - the poor kid.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well they certainly don't seem to be a bundle of fun, do they?

Nope. Nor 'godless'.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I feel sorry for the dumb kid. And sorry for his dumb parents who let their dumb kid travel to North Korea.

 

[leibowde84]

I shudder to think what the U.S. gave up, in order to secure Warmbier's release. It's not quite on the same level as the Japanese giving peace medals to U.S. officials as their strike fleet was about to attack Pearl Harbor, but it's pretty close.

States that take our citizens hostage know it's a weakness, because we treat our citizens a thousand times better than they do, and we're going to want them back. For example, President Obama traded five vicious, terrorist Taliban savages in exchange for one Bowe Bergdahl, a cowardly, flaky deserter, that faces a life sentence in Leavenworth. So we'd rather get one of our deeply flawed citizens back, just to throw him in prison, while the fanatics get 5 bloodthirsty soldiers who will likely try to kill us all over again. Countries that therefore have opportunity to snatch our people will do so, if just to gain a bargaining chip.

It's a painful reminder that the United States is more civilized than the godless wastelands of Iran, Mexico or North Korea. Not for a second does it ever cross our minds to kidnap their people, or send them to prison on trumped-up charges.

In what way is Mexico a "godless wasteland"?

 

[Grumpuss]

Nope. Nor 'godless'.

In what way is Mexico a "godless wasteland"?

Decentralized, full of warlords and the notion that kidnapping and gang violence on a massive scale is an acceptable way of life.

 

[Nous]

Well they certainly don't seem to be a bundle of fun, do they?

I've always had great fun in Mexico. Besides the fact that the average Mexican street-hawker is seemingly more intelligent than the average American college graduate.

 

[metis]

Decentralized, full of warlords and the notion that kidnapping and gang violence on a massive scale is an acceptable way of life.

Fueled by America's insatiable appetite for drugs.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Decentralized, full of warlords and the notion that kidnapping and gang violence on a massive scale is an acceptable way of life.

Cool. Can agree more with that. Using 'godless' as a similie for that is a little disconcerting to me.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I feel sorry for the dumb kid. And sorry for his dumb parents who let their dumb kid travel to North Korea.

Your certainly not the first one in saying that. Especially as an American coming into a country via a Chinese touring company where just about all the propaganda is about killing Americans.