Otto Warmbier is dead.

[Grumpuss]

I've always had great fun in Mexico. Besides the fact that the average Mexican street-hawker is seemingly more intelligent than the average American college graduate.

Tell that to people who wander a mile outside the resorts. Or anyone who dares to visit
Ciudad Juárez.

Fueled by America's insatiable appetite for drugs.

Can't argue that. But they're still the godless wasteland. Trying to sneak in here quite a bit too.

Cool. Can agree more with that. Using 'godless' as a similie for that is a little disconcerting to me.

Why not put a hat on a hat?

 

[metis]

Can't argue that. But they're still the godless wasteland. Trying to sneak in here quite a bit too.

You call them "godless", which says much more about you than about them. Doesn't sound like an "Episcopalian" response to me, but then maybe your church is a bit "different".

I did volunteer work for the United Farm Workers Ministries for several years, got to know a lot of them personally, and they seemed much more moral that what your bigoted statement reads like.

Maybe the "godless wasteland" is you, Grumpuss? If you find that offensive, then maybe it's time to not to be so judgmental towards others.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Why not put a hat on a hat?

Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with that saying. I'm assuming it means something like 'Why not call a spade a spade?'.
If it doesn't mean that, you can disregard my comments. If it does;

1) I would assume you don't actually believe ANY place is godless, as such. So it's a turn of phrase. God exists (to your mind) but the places are wastelands due to the absence of 'proper' worship, or godliness, or whatever you want to call it on behalf of the population. Right?

2) It completely ignores any factors other than this, basically conflating 'godlessness' with 'wasteland'. New Zealand is a country where under 50% of the country is Christian, even nominally, let alone actual practicing Christians, let alone the 'correct' denomination to your mind. Is New Zealand then a godless wasteland?

3) Levels of religiousness in Mexico and Iran are exceedingly high. They're not 'godless' in terms of worship, and you don't actually believe god isn't there, so...what...wrong God?

4) Ultimately you're just saying people who worship your God are better than people who don't, and using the term 'godless' to describe them.

So from a godless person not living in a wasteland, I'd humbly suggest it's a disconcerting similie. Either that or I need to go start selling crack on the street corner to the kinder kids I guess.

 

[Grumpuss]

You call them "godless", which says much more about you than about them. Doesn't sound like an "Episcopalian" response to me, but then maybe your church is a bit "different".

I did volunteer work for the United Farm Workers Ministries for several years, got to know a lot of them personally, and they seemed much more moral that what your bigoted statement reads like.

You're welcome to come attend services with me at my church.

Maybe the "godless wasteland" is you, Grumpuss? If you find that offensive, then maybe it's time to not to be so judgmental towards others.

You're the one who seems to find offense (or more likely- is looking to be offended). We don't kidnap Mexicans, Iranians and North Koreans in this country for some reason. Might it be good manners? Respect for the law? Love for the Lord and his Commandments?

 

[Grumpuss]

Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with that saying. I'm assuming it means something like 'Why not call a spade a spade?'.
If it doesn't mean that, you can disregard my comments. If it does;

I don't believe so. Your phrase seems to include a racial slur, which is inappropriate for this board.

1) I would assume you don't actually believe ANY place is godless, as such. So it's a turn of phrase. God exists (to your mind) but the places are wastelands due to the absence of 'proper' worship, or godliness, or whatever you want to call it on behalf of the population. Right?

When there is no belief in God, or respect for God's laws, then a place can be said to be godless. The 'wasteland' part probably should've been a clue for you.

2) It completely ignores any factors other than this, basically conflating 'godlessness' with 'wasteland'. New Zealand is a country where under 50% of the country is Christian, even nominally, let alone actual practicing Christians, let alone the 'correct' denomination to your mind. Is New Zealand then a godless wasteland?

Odd that you would conflate my pronouncement with a Christian God, when I referenced none. Are you just making an assumption that I meant an Abrahamic god, or are you just looking to pick a fight with Christians again?

3) Levels of religiousness in Mexico and Iran are exceedingly high. They're not 'godless' in terms of worship, and you don't actually believe god isn't there, so...what...wrong God?

Large swaths of Mexico are barren and nasty, filled with the detritus of humanity that have few redeeming features. A comparison to a modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah is apt. Iran is a theocracy, just practices brutal culture and laws that violate all sorts of international norms, not only limited to the compassion found within religion.

Odd that you leave out North Korea. So is that cool with you then, Mr. Judgmental?

4) Ultimately you're just saying people who worship your God are better than people who don't, and using the term 'godless' to describe them.

I never said this. You seem to be very agitated with my God. Did He offend you in some horrible way?

So from a godless person not living in a wasteland, I'd humbly suggest it's a disconcerting similie. Either that or I need to go start selling crack on the street corner to the kinder kids I guess.

I'm glad the druglords, warlords, communist butchers and genital-mutilating imams have you to protect them. I hadn't realized they were such delicate flowers. Thank you for standing up for their rights.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I don't believe so. Your phrase seems to include a racial slur, which is inappropriate for this board.

1) It's said commonly enough here, with no racial intent. I was unaware it could be taken in such a fashion, although some quick google-fu shows that the expression is avoided in North America (sometimes/always/maybe) due to spade being a racial slur.
2) If anyone took it as such, I unreservedly apologise. It wasn't my intent at all.
3) The origins of the saying are older than the racial slur.

Call a spade a spade - Wikipedia

Regardless, all I meant was that your hat comment was unfamiliar to me, and I was assuming it meant something akin to 'speaking plainly'.

When there is no belief in God, or respect for God's laws, then a place can be said to be godless. The 'wasteland' part probably should've been a clue for you.

Conflation of wasteland and Godless is the entire point I am making, and you seem to disagree with.

Odd that you would conflate my pronouncement with a Christian God, when I referenced none. Are you just making an assumption that I meant an Abrahamic god, or are you just looking to pick a fight with Christians again?

Not odd. I conflated it with 'your God'. There are high levels of religiosity in both Iran and Mexico. It made little sense to me to see your comments as meaning 'any God'.

Large swaths of Mexico are barren and nasty, filled with the detritus of humanity that have few redeeming features. A comparison to a modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah is apt.

And yet they are not 'godless', even accepting your cartoonish depiction.

Iran is a theocracy, just practices brutal culture and laws that violate all sorts of international norms, not only limited to the compassion found within religion.

It's not 'compassion found within religion' driving apostasy laws in Iran, and neither is it 'godlessness'.

Odd that you leave out North Korea. So is that cool with you then, Mr. Judgmental?

Not at all. I wouldn't **** on the place if it was on fire, to speak bluntly. I don't blame the people, but the regime is truly horrible. The fact that they force non-religion on people is an abomination in my mind.
However, I wouldn't actually argue with you calling North Korea a 'godless wasteland'. It's kinda an apt description, if taken as a generalization.

I never said this. You seem to be very agitated with my God. Did He offend you in some horrible way?

How could he? That's kinda a weird comment. What I'm actually saying is that you equate 'godless' with 'bad'. But your version of 'godless' includes a whole range of people who would bristle at being called atheists. Meanwhile, an atheist living in a country with much higher levels of 'godlessness' finds it hard to equate the place as a wasteland.
I can assure you, I have no issues with your God, and he can do whatever he wants with my soul when I die. My issues are completely limited to some of his followers.

I'm glad the druglords, warlords, communist butchers and genital-mutilating imams have you to protect them. I hadn't realized they were such delicate flowers. Thank you for standing up for their rights.

I've mentioned it before, but you're kinda passive aggressive. I'm not defending anyone. I just couldn't give a crap whether a druglord, warlord, communist butcher or genital mutilating imam is godless or not. Either way, I'd equate them to the dog poo I accidentally stepped in this morning.
What any of that has to do with you equating 'godless' with 'wasteland' in such cavalier fashion, I have no idea.

 

[leibowde84]

Decentralized, full of warlords and the notion that kidnapping and gang violence on a massive scale is an acceptable way of life.

What warlords? And, why do you think kidnapping and gang violence is an accepted way of life?

 

[leibowde84]

Decentralized, full of warlords and the notion that kidnapping and gang violence on a massive scale is an acceptable way of life.

Also, it is very religious down there, so how is it godless?

 

[Nous]

I've always had great fun in Mexico. Besides the fact that the average Mexican street-hawker is seemingly more intelligent than the average American college graduate.

Tell that to people who wander a mile outside the resorts.

Apparently I'm telling it to someone who hasn't visited Mexico.

Moreover, I am someone who has "wander[ed] a mile outside the resorts."

 

[metis]

Love for the Lord and his Commandments?

When you stereotype and demean people as you did, you simply are not following His Commandments. As it says in I John:

1John.2[9] He who says he is in the light and hates his brother is in the darkness still.

1John.3[15] Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

1John.4[20] If any one says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

The "law of love" taught by Jesus should keep any follower of him from doing what you have done, and no song & dance excuse is likely to fool God.

 

[Revoltingest]

I shudder to think what the U.S. gave up, in order to secure Warmbier's release. It's not quite on the same level as the Japanese giving peace medals to U.S. officials as their strike fleet was about to attack Pearl Harbor, but it's pretty close.

States that take our citizens hostage know it's a weakness, because we treat our citizens a thousand times better than they do, and we're going to want them back. For example, President Obama traded five vicious, terrorist Taliban savages in exchange for one Bowe Bergdahl, a cowardly, flaky deserter, that faces a life sentence in Leavenworth. So we'd rather get one of our deeply flawed citizens back, just to throw him in prison, while the fanatics get 5 bloodthirsty soldiers who will likely try to kill us all over again. Countries that therefore have opportunity to snatch our people will do so, if just to gain a bargaining chip.

It's a painful reminder that the United States is more civilized than the godless wastelands of Iran, Mexico or North Korea. Not for a second does it ever cross our minds to kidnap their people, or send them to prison on trumped-up charges.

Godless wasteland?
Sounds like paradise....or Revoltistan.

 

[Grumpuss]

What warlords? And, why do you think kidnapping and gang violence is an accepted way of life?

Lack of morals, lack of personal accountability, lack of respect for themselves, the law and God.

Also, it is very religious down there, so how is it godless?

Religion ≠ God. C'mon now.

 

[Grumpuss]

Apparently I'm telling it to someone who hasn't visited Mexico.

Moreover, I am someone who has "wander[ed] a mile outside the resorts."

Wow! Hey, there are probably people who've crossed against the lights and not been run over too!

 

[Grumpuss]

When you stereotype and demean people as you did, you simply are not following His Commandments. As it says in I John:

1John.2[9] He who says he is in the light and hates his brother is in the darkness still.

1John.3[15] Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

1John.4[20] If any one says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

The "law of love" taught by Jesus should keep any follower of him from doing what you have done, and no song & dance excuse is likely to fool God.

Please find the places above where I said I'm perfect. Or larger than a whole country?

 

[metis]

Please find the places above where I said I'm perfect.

But the real shame is that it appears that you're not even trying because so many of your posts are sarcastic and demeaning towards others. I don't suspect that Jesus and God expect that you'll be perfect, but my guess is, based on the scriptures, that they feel that you should at least try. The minute you call others "godless" is when that's maybe what you are-- even if you don't think so.

Anyhow, ...

 

[Grumpuss]

But the real shame is that it appears that you're not even trying because so many of your posts are sarcastic and demeaning towards others. I don't suspect that Jesus and God expect that you'll be perfect, but my guess is, based on the scriptures, that they feel that you should at least try. The minute you call others "godless" is when that's maybe what you are-- even if you don't think so.

Anyhow, ...

It doesn't even sound like you're incensed at me. It sounds like the mere existence of the word is a personal affront to you.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

 

[metis]

It sounds like the mere existence of the word is a personal affront to you.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

Don't bother-- I'd rather have people who at least try to act morally pray for me.

Goodbye.

 

[Revoltingest]

Don't bother-- I'd rather have people who at least try to act morally pray for me.

Goodbye.

I'll pray for you then.

 

[leibowde84]

Lack of morals, lack of personal accountability, lack of respect for themselves, the law and God.

I understand what you are claiming. I am wondering what evidence you are basing this claim on. Can you explain where you are getting your opinions about Mexico from (and, please don't say "the news" or my head will explode)?

Religion ≠ God. C'mon now.

Fair enough. So, what do you mean by godless and why do you think it applies to Mexico in general?