Our Father Who Art in Heaven - jehovah is NOT your name

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

I have said a few paces now,there is discrepancy between the bible and that which Yeshua Who is Christ says directly..Here,i will lay it out in full..

Jehovah/yahweh - god of the Hebrews - is NOT the Father that Yeshua (jesus) will later speak about - 2 entirely different entities..Jehovah is an EGOIC demigod - created being exactly the same as you or I,only preceeding us in the creatin order..he is NOT though,the Divine source of Creation itself..

Jehovah has identical qualities to any mortal man..He is vengful,spiteful and outright nasty at times - even tells us outright he is a "jealous god and you shall have no other god before me"..See - he even admits that OTHER GODS EXIST,same as him,except we are forbidden by him,to even approach any others..Jehovah is fallable,judgemental,biassed..When he decided we were "wicked" and corrupt,he didnt try rehabilitation or reconcilliation - he tried ANHIALATION !! He sent a flood to wipe us out,all in the name of "his love" we are told...
And thats the point -what we are told in the BIBLE,is NOT what Yeshua actually had to say about it - not at all..I advise reading especially,the gospels of Thomas and Judas..Here you will see Yeshua recount all of creation - how and why it happened..Right through from the true Fathers FIRST MANIFESTATION - explaining how jehovah and his realms came about,how jehovah,a demigod with same creative potential,sets about creating US here,mortal man,and how this is a mistaken act,requiring the Father source of all,to take direc intervention,Christ in mortal form,in order to rectify JEHOVAHS MISTAKE !!

Really do go read it for yourselves..Its truly fascinating and more than a little revealing..On the one side,the bible..Tells us jehovah is supreme,creates Angels,heavens,man and earth..One Angel,Lucifer,is jealous we are told,challenges this supremacy,is kicked out of heaven,and so,man is stuck with him down here,leading us all astray..we get the classic serpant garden of eden scenario and all that follows..

But listen now: Yeshua,never mentions any of that..This aspect of an "evil devil" doesnt even get a look in at all..Not in the way youd expect anyway..As far as yeshua is concerned,there is nothig "evil" to worry about,doesnt mention it at all..

Yeshua tells the disciples directly,that the Father is ABSTRACT<FORMLESS,and CANNOT BE KNOWN by any mortal being..He says that as soon as we start to describe the Father,we immediately start to LIMIT it,to make it conform to that given definition..He says the Father is beyond any mortal notions,is truly INFINATE,boundless and a MORTAL mind can never appreciate this new understanding,is not currently able even,to comprehend it..

At no time does Yeshua EVER refer to the Father by any GIVEN NAME - because again,a name,is a DESIGNATION - a definition - and the Father is source of ALL DEFINITION..YEshua is speaking about the SOURCE OF CREATION,the METAPHYSICS of how it works..
The bible sees god as a MAN,with manlike egoic wants and desires..Yeshua explains the Father is beyond all such concerns entirely..Yeshua speaks openly of a DIVINE MIND - a perspective of SELF..He is not speaking of a seperate entity - a man or demigod in a heaven - He is speaking of a subjective awareness of your own existance - a mindset..

Ok - so a little esoteric knowledge "one on one" is needed here: Yeshua tells the disciples,this Divine mind the Father,realises its own existance,and this literally created a Divine Light..As this realisatoin dawned,very first thoughts,the Father also beocmes aware of its own WISDOM,understanding fully,this Light now shining forth,IS the creation of His own awareness,a symbol and representation OF it..Thus,the very Light iself,IS the Fathers Wisdom..This aspect of the Father,is traditonally,seen as FEMININE,and is known as Sofia..
The Father realises the Light can form images,patterns,OBJECTS,and so,the process of creation unfolds,each new realisation of Self,literally bringing into being,a symbolic representation of that awareness..This first realm of Creation,the Fathers true abode,is known as Barbello..As it filled this realm with its creations so too it realised fully what it was doing,each new creation bringing further understanding of SELF..This aspect of the Father,the dynamic creating force,is the MALE,the Christ mind,or Logos,and will eventually come directly to inhabit the mortal body of Yehua for reasons that will become apparant..

Now,we are speaking here of a DIVINE MIND that creates from its own source,Self arising,VIRGIN,orignal conception..Sofia,the first aspect,shares this creative potential - as do all creatures with a mind - and she,quite by accident,brings forth a being,all by herself,without the involvement at all of her male Christ counterpart..Yeshua said at that time,she lacked forethought,and her raw potential,unguarded,created the being,but it was malformed,not integrated with the whole realm as it was indeed,NOT created BY the Christ but by Sofia alone..

Sofia creates this being that is truly seperate from the rest of creation and when she realises this error,she is ashamed..SHE is the one who "casts out of heaven" - and it is JEHOVAH,the created demigod,who is expelled !! Sofia creates a ream "below" or outside of Barbelo,and literally banishes jehovah there alone,ashamed,so that no other true Divine will know she has made a mistake..She even creates another form of Divine light,to literally HIDE her mistake..See any comparisons yet..?..Divine Beings being kicked out of heaven because of shame and arrogance..?..

Now jehovah the demigod,newly created,awakes in a realm where he is alone,void and emtpy..HERE,is where our Bible Genesis begins..Alone,yet DIVINE with the same creative powers as all Divine beings..HE quite naturally,starts to create his world,his angels,his heavens..Now so far,jehovah quite rightly,believes he is the supreme diety,because look,he awoke to himself alone,and he created all things in his world,so yes,he sees himself as "top dog"..Sometime AFTER he creates Angels and heavens for himself - but BEFORE he creates mortal man here on earth - there is an event happens that absolutely shatters his world and his delusions completly..

In the realm of Barbello,the true heaven,abode of the Father,the true DIVINE MAN IS CREATED..Known and named by Yeshua as ADAMUS..(as all things in existance are NAMED by Christ,the WORD,literally giving form and definition to that existance intended)..THIS,is our "destiny",what we are SUPPOSED TO BE !! We are truly a cherished creature it seems,for Yeshua says that when the Father created Adamus the Divine Humanaform,ALL OF CREATION proclaimed His glory,the perfection of the creation !!

And here it gets interesting,for many reasons - not least of which,is us,we mortals,are about to enter the picture..In jehovahs realm,they become aware of this Divine creation event - and for the very first time jehovah and his angels are AWARE OF OTHER DIVINE BEINGS !!! Until this event,all the Angels quite rightly saw jehovah as the supreme deity,as he did himself,all ignorant of anything around them save their own manifestations - their realm being seperate,purposefully hidden..Yet more obvious comparisons here:

One Angel,Lucifer,wishes to go above to this new realm and investigate,see their kin,and obviously to know all they can about this tremendous POWER above them..Remember,the Adamus event is truly stupendous Christ says,the culmination of PERFECTION !! Lucifer realises immediately that jehovah doesnot posess that power,is NOT the sourceof that power..HERE,we see the proclamation by jehovah - Iam a jealous god,and YOU shall have NONE before me !! They all know these others exist now,no denying it..Jehovah is fearful of his dominant position,and so FORBIDS Lucifer and the Angels from ascending - and so the trouble begins..

 

[PeteC-UK]

*** Sorry - wanted to place ths as a single post - but aparantly it itoo long ***

In an effort to prove authority,jehovah gathers his Angels,and declares to them - Let US,make MAN in OUR IMAGE !! - a poor attempt to mimick the Fathers perfect creation - And so,we mortals are created,the Earth and all that surrounds us..Now,Christ never mentions Lucifer again - it realy doesnt seem important to HIM at all,so why the church made such a big deal of him is anyones guess - I know a plausable answer..Lucifer wanted to ASCEND TO THE FATHER,knowing jehovah was BOGUS,and eventually I guess,confrontng him directly over it..Maybe he got kicked out of jehovahs heaven,and the whole Angelic war is real - but I DOUBT IT,as I`ll explain..Either way,when Lucifer gave us KNOWLEDGE of good and evil,he was really showing us who the TRULY Divine really are and really doing us a huge Divine favour..

Eventually,jehovah himself,is so troubld by this Power above him,so puzzled by it,that HE HIMSELF,goes to investigate..Jehovah finally meets his TRUE SOURCE,and is so awestruck by the complete Divine Presence,that immediately,he realise his errors,and is fully REPENTANT of his earlier claims to supremacy..Even in the bible this is reflected,with at times jehovah being the egoic cruel god even demanding sacrifice and murder - and others,doing his best to guide humanity benevolantly offering love and communion..Jehovah goes through a definate transformation in the bible - a true SPIRITUAL AWAKENING,according to Yeshua directly..Jehovah is so ashamed of his errors and his actions here,that he tries to destroy his mistaken creations,us mortals,life here - and thus we have Noahs flood and that scenario playing out..Meanwhile,the Father assures jehovah,do NOT destroy us,send the CHRIST,to rectify the mistake - JOIN and MERGE,jehovahs creation,with the Fathers,as ONLY the Christ power can achieve this..Thus we have PROPHECY from end to end,foretelling all this from the Divine perspective,as to THAT MIND,it was one single event,one timeline in creation..By the time our bible was written,the whole HEAVENLY event had happened,jehovah knew his mistake and had already taken steps to set things right..

Thus,we are told even at the beginning,the Christ will come - is needed,vital - for without Him coming directly to a MORTAL FORM,then this entire realm,remained seperate and isolated from the rest of metaphysical creation..Christ came to "save us" from jehovahs ignorance primarily,and our own ignorance also,tying our very Soul - giving it the opportunity - to merge back to the TRUE SOurce,and acheive our own Divine Self..

A truly fascinating saga,dont you think..?..Not at all what the modern church tells us - but it is available first hand - Gnostic gospels - convenianlty left out of the "sanctioned bible"..Sanctioned by WHO..?..BY MAN !!..And sanctioned WHY..?..To keep bogus power in mans hands,so that the society need priests and clergy to come to know this god they all worship..And of course,the actual search for and the REALISATION of Divinity,is the only TRUE POWER one person can ever hold - it is the driving force behind all life - to KNOW THE SELF..Thus the religion manipulates that power from you,gladly you give it,believeing they will give you truth of this Divinity in return..They DO NOT because they CAN NOT..Even if they understood,they WOULD NOT..WHY..?..Because once you know who you truly ARE,they can never have AUTHORITY over you,their power and status is gone in an instant of realisation..

The god of the bible is most clearly not the god of love - most definately NOT the Father and source of all creation that Yeshua speaks of..Christ came,saved us from ignorance,and so doing relaimed not only a "fallen creation",but also,a fallen,ignorant creator -jehovah the demigod..He came good in the end,repented his "wicked ways" - but because he is a CREATURE,same as you and I,he has EGOIC MIND - and so to hide his failings he passes them off on others,Lucifer,fallen Adam and eve etc etc...

Take one thing from all this though,hold it close and never let go - realise it and life will never trouble you again..Christ said,when the Divne Man Adamus,was created,the Father realised perfection - and this state of Being is what WE here are destined to BECOME - Christs direct intervention,absolutely guarantees our place with the Father..even if yet we dont understan dor accept ANY of this at all..Even the most base human being imaginable,heinous despicable low lfe - they too,are GUARANTEED this communion..Eventually,we will all realise our true Self,as see,we are all literally,of the "same mind",and so it is just amatter of experience,remeberance,allowing

A radical truth I know - as He said - it is for those with ears to hear...

 

[wizanda]

You don't need to use capitals to emphasize your words, it makes it hard when using a speech program to read.

Interesting post other than that; not sure about your evidence to substantiate all the claims within it tho.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

Only a couple of sentences in and already am asking myself: are you a gnostic?

 

[Brickjectivity]

You have so much in your posts that there isn't room for discussion. That should bother you a little. Don't you want a little feedback and maybe some argument or back and forth? Sorry if I come across as a little heated. I'm not trying to snipe or anything.

A truly fascinating saga,dont you think..?..Not at all what the modern church tells us - but it is available first hand - Gnostic gospels - convenianlty left out of the "sanctioned bible"..Sanctioned by WHO..?..BY MAN !!..And sanctioned WHY..?..To keep bogus power in mans hands,so that the society need priests and clergy to come to know this god they all worship..And of course,the actual search for and the REALISATION of Divinity,is the only TRUE POWER one person can ever hold - it is the driving force behind all life - to KNOW THE SELF..Thus the religion manipulates that power from you,gladly you give it,believeing they will give you truth of this Divinity in return..They DO NOT because they CAN NOT..Even if they understood,they WOULD NOT..WHY..?..Because once you know who you truly ARE,they can never have AUTHORITY over you,their power and status is gone in an instant of realisation..

This seems like a topic all by itself.

The Father realises the Light can form images,patterns,OBJECTS,and so,the process of creation unfolds,each new realisation of Self,literally bringing into being,a symbolic representation of that awareness..

The Setians say some things like that. Is this a Setian form of Christology or is this just a coincidence?

Sofia creates this being that is truly seperate from the rest of creation and when she realises this error,she is ashamed..SHE is the one who "casts out of heaven" - and it is JEHOVAH,the created demigod,who is expelled !! Sofia creates a ream "below" or outside of Barbelo,and literally banishes jehovah there alone,ashamed,so that no other true Divine will know she has made a mistake..She even creates another form of Divine light,to literally HIDE her mistake..See any comparisons yet..?..Divine Beings being kicked out of heaven because of shame and arrogance..?..

That is a fairly literal interpretation of Gnostic writings. What if Sofia isn't actually a person? Do you view Sofia as 'Wisdom' or something else? I have heard that in Gnosticism she is 'Wisdom' personified. Do you know of the original pantheon in Canaanite culture of which 'Jehova' is one of 12? There is one member here who brings it up frequently and that is why I ask, because it adds 11 siblings to 'Jehova'. How do they fit in?

So basically there is just so much here that I think it is way too much for one reader to absorb. I am not sure if you are just laying down a new system or want to discuss things or what.

 

[Deidre]

But at the end of it all, PeteC...let's say you are right about all you say...isn't God still ...God? Does He cease to be God, because there are a few different 'versions' of Him floating around, or many versions even? I say no. Because if God is God...it is up to us to accept God or not. Despite the different versions of the stories. Mankind might tamper with the stories, but you alone have your own experience of God. To believe in God in my opinion, is more than following holy texts and ancient writings.

 

[Neo Deist]

The first thing I saw was that you spelled "gnostic" wrong in your religious description.

Then when I noticed that you don't like to capitalize proper nouns, I stopped reading. If you want to be taken seriously, do some proofreading and error correction. Just my 2 cents...

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Danddolo Rex;

Only a couple of sentences in and already am asking myself: are you a gnostic?

Hmmm...Id have to say Yes - in the truest sense of themeaning - but Id have t say NO - if you imply any sort of "religous meaning" - as actually,despite what many think,there is no such thing as a "gnostic religion"

Brickjectivity;

You have so much in your posts that there isn't room for discussion. That should bother you a little.

lol...Of course theres room for discussion..lol...Thats what we are doing right now,isnt it..?..

The Setians say some things like that. Is this a Setian form of Christology or is this just a coincidence?

Im not sure what you mean..?...Im assuming you mean "Sethian gnostic tradition" - and in a sense then,yes - and no....There is no such thing as an "organised gnostic religion" - that indeed,would go directly aganst the premise of actually seeking Gnosis in an authentic manner....As see,gnosis,is a direct revealatin - spirit to spirit - mind to mind - and so we see,following anothers incotrinated truth,is not truth from spirit,but merely,truth from man - this is not Gnosis,which has to be revealed,directly and personally...Therefore there can never actually be an institutionalised form or hard doctrine that must be followed..It is a living,moment to moment revelation...Perhaps its just easier to explain,gnosis is delivered by that which we term the Holy Ghost - unless we have that Presence first,then all scripture is worthless as only that Presence is capable of hearing truth - do you see..?..

You cant get tha Presence from any other source that is "outside of the self",it is a personal inner commuinon - scripture cant lead you to it - indeed,the initial prerequisite for this authentic communion,is an empty silent mind - so understand then,if we were to folow a structured indoctrinated religion as some define this as,then this religious aspect immmediatly fills the mind with preconceptions of "truth" - and it is these very preconceptins that prohibit the Presence from becomng known ( it requires a silent empty mind) - so to a true gnostic,all forms of religious instituionalised seeking,is in fact,a direct hinderance and obstacle to the Divine truth of Self...

[ What if Sofia isn't actually a person? Do you view Sofia as 'Wisdom' or something else? I/QUOTE]

Oooo -this could get real complicated,real fast - but its all related,intimately so - so lets stick with it and see...

Sofia - isnt a "person" such a You and I - an indidvidual discreet and unique body form...But - She is a Personality - a persona...She is literally "living Consciuos energy" - and from that energy,the entirety of Cretaion is to be formed,structured,created...The embodimnet of Wisdom..?....Hmmm...Christ says our Fathers first Self awareness,caused a symbol of that knowldge,to be made manifest...This is the inherant logic of Mind - in plain English look - If Iam - if I exist - then I MUST exist AS SOMETHING - MUST have a symbol,to recognise that existance by - the mind seeks always,understanding,GNOSIS....So,the Father (mind) has its first Self aware "thought" - Iam,I exist - and immediatly,its own inherant logic,prompts "so WHAT am I"..?...

Now - there is nothng in existance -this is the very first stirring of this Mind...Void,empty silent "nothing" exist - and into this state of being comes this Self aware thought...Immediatly,it requires a symbol,recognition - the mind needs to denote one mode from the other - in order to understand and so realise the Self....Where nothing existed before,now this first thought brngs its symbol - a clear opposite mode of mind - a Light shines forth in darkness to represent this new mode of Self......The Light,IS the mind,and the mind IS the Light,without seperation...Th Father mind,realises what it has done - knows this Light represents it Self fully - and so we can indeed,say,this Light,is the "living wisdom" of the Fathers mind - literally so...Because the mind reconginses itself as this Light./Wisdom,it is a "personality" within the mind - a persona.....

It is indeed,the FIRST such personality that is realised....The Light is the generic enegy that will power creation - all contianed within the Fathers abstract mind of course...Because All Creation will come from this living Light - we have termed Her Feminine,Christ named Her Sofia - and She is simulatneously,the entire Creation,AND an individualised mode in the mind...As the individual mode,we may indeed encounter Her directly for our mortal Self,as She is this "Holy Ghost" the religions speak of...

The Father mind wil call forth many such personalities as it realises its own existance,own Nature..Next of course,is Christ Himself...The Father realises it can cause this Light to change,to bend to its Will - and this self realisation,is best described as LOGIC - if Sofia is Living Wisdom,then Christ is Living Logic,the embodiment of it..His mode,gives form and structure to Sofia living energy - always in this manner - Male and Female combine - Holy matrimony,causes Divine Creaton to occur - He is as we kow,the "word" - called so,because of this logical structuring process the Father mind contains..Just as "words" give structure and definiton to our thoughts - so the Christ is called the Word,as His presence gives structure and definiton to the entire Creation - almost

These Being s existin Silence - no material forms at all as yet - this is the primal domain of the unformed Mind - and it is indeed,access to this inner mode of Divine Silence,that the true gnostic seeks,always - hence,no religion,,no one else to lead us (astray) - as it all comes from within....

Do you know of the original pantheon in Canaanite culture of which 'Jehova' is one of 12? There is one member here who brings it up frequently and that is why I ask, because it adds 11 siblings to 'Jehova'. How do they fit in?

Christ says that Jehovah and everything about this realm he created and us mortals here too - in the beginning - the very beginning actually,as soon as jehovah is called forth - he is "cast out" and hidden..He says that as said above - Divine mind calls forth Creation,and this is unstoppable - truly it is KARMA itself....An inherant talent,property of mind that causes symbolised representation of Self - objectified external reality - to form and be Created..The mind IS the enrgy of Creation and as said - the two combine always to form perfectly - Sofias livng energy,is shaped and moulded by the Will of Christ the Word - male and female combine,PERFECT Creation happens....

But - Christ says - this Karma - this inherant talent - is quite unstoppable - and before She realises it,Sofia has a "stray unguarded thought"..She merely wonders about possibilty - what if........But She doesnt engage the Christ mode within the mind - and so,Her stray but Divinely potant thought causes to form,somehting that is less than pefect...Indeed,Christ said explicitly - it resembeld a DRAGON !! At first, only Sofia knows of its existance - and She creates literally,a "lesser realm" - a different form of Her Light/energy - and She "casts out" this dragon creature and hides it in that lesser realm....This is jehovahs origns....

Christ also says - that indeed - a whole heirchy of Angels is so created - though we cant be sure if this is before or after jehovahs creation - but it doesnt really matter - jehovah is not of their accord....The 12 youmention are created by Diivne intent - Sofia and Christ together cause their existance in the ordained manner and all their realms so created are harmonious and fully under the guidance of Christ the Word......BUT - jehovah,is created alone,seperatly,then purosefully hidden from all the Divine..>Sofia is ashamed,and a little afraid of this creature She has created by ACCIDENT...Other "gods" do exist - jehovah wil even come to admit this and declare itself supreme above them all and forbid us to hold knowldge of them - they are as real as he himself is - but they are - were - entirely seperate and unobtainable by any Soul existing in THIS part of creation...

Seperate - hidden - forgotten reams...Indeed,this is why Christ takes a mortal form here among us - His mind,as the Word,literally formed a pathway,a connection and conduit,that allows Souls trapped here,to finally leave this realm,and attain the abode of the Trinity,true Divine..before Yeshau was born mortal,no such passage was availabe at all...This is why He told them all,none know My Father,and I will show you all secrets that not even Angels are aware of - and wgy He said Iam th eway and the ONLY way..

There are many many MANY realms so created - and held all together as one realm in the mind of Christ - excpet for this one - which always was isolated,seperate before His mortal birth...The god jehovah,awakes to itself here,alone,and its own divine Karmik talent,sets about creating its own creaturs ,Angels,everntually mankind ourselves...All seperate,hidden from the realms above...

So basically there is just so much here that I think it is way too much for one reader to absorb. I am not sure if you are just laying down a new system or want to discuss things or what

But -you are only 1 reader - and you did absorb it,obviusly,else you couldnt comment or pose further questions could you..?..And of course - there is discussion also - so you have answered your own points wihtout even realising it

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Deirdre;

let's say you are right about all you say...isn't God still ...God? Does He cease to be God, because there are a few different 'versions' of Him floating around, or many versions even? I say no.

Hmm....There is only one true "god" - Our Father,source of creation itself...But,there are many many many countless lesser "gods" - and these are not that source at all - these are merely Creatures similar to You and I - eventualy,we will be as Christ (if we follow Him,understand Him),and then we wil surpass even these little gods for our Self..

Because if God is God...it is up to us to accept God or not. Despite the different versions of the stories. Mankind might tamper with the stories, but you alone have your own experience of God. To believe in God in my opinion, is more than following holy texts and ancient writings.

EXACTLY !!
Do you see then - the god we seek - cannot be found in ANY religious text..?...You are a Gnostic,the truth is revealed directly and you already realise this as so...This is why He bids us to turn formthe temple always - quit following the "religious authority" and seek the divne inthis inner communio always - purely a gnostic endeavour...

Deist mentor;

The first thing I saw was that you spelled "gnostic" wrong in your religious description.Then when I noticed that you don't like to capitalize proper nouns, I stopped reading. If you want to be taken seriously, do some proofreading and error correction. Just my 2 cents...

Check again - youll probably find many spelling errors - big deal - does it matter ?....There was no "religious description" as see clearly,gnosis has no structured institutionalised form at all - so it doesnt really matter how I spell it,you fail to grasp its meaning anyway of you think it has any "religious connotations"...The grammer has nothing to do with your comments here does it..?..More like the content and the truth presented,that troubles you so..?..