Our Most Important Space Program

[Revoltingest]

Wanting to send people into space is inspiring, but impractical.
(Humans are fragile, & scientific knowledge is best gained by remote sensing & non-manned probes.)
A better use of our resources is to defend what we have...a really wonderful (if slightly used & abused) planet.
The big one (dino killing size) should be detected far enuf in advance to deflect it into a safe path.
Progress on that.....
NASA unveils plan to test asteroid defense technique
From the article....
On Friday, the space agency announced plans to redirect the course of a small asteroid approaching Earth, as part of the Double Asteroid Redirection Test (DART), according to a NASA press release.

More National Headlines

• Asteroid Day: Monitoring skies for next strike
• NASA's colorful clouds light up the sky
• NASA's Kepler mission finds 10 Earth-size exoplanets, 209 others
• Meet NASA's newest Astronaut recruits
• Here comes the sun: NASA's first mission to the giant star set for 2018

The release notes that asteroids hit Earth nearly every day, but most are small enough to burn up in the atmosphere.

[RELATED: SpaceX preps for third launch | Where to watch rocket launches on the Space Coast]

But the DART project -- a joint effort between NASA and the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Maryland -- is for the asteroids that are too big to break up -- those that could have severe consequences for the Earth if they hit.

 

[shawn001]

Wanting to send people into space is inspiring, but impractical.
(Humans are fragile, & scientific knowledge is best gained by remote sensing & non-manned probes.)
A better use of our resources is to defend what we have...a really wonderful (if slightly used & abused) planet.
The big one (dino killing size) should be detected far enuf in advance to deflect it into a safe path.
Progress on that.....
NASA unveils plan to test asteroid defense technique
From the article....
On Friday, the space agency announced plans to redirect the course of a small asteroid approaching Earth, as part of the Double Asteroid Redirection Test (DART), according to a NASA press release.

More National Headlines

• Asteroid Day: Monitoring skies for next strike
• NASA's colorful clouds light up the sky
• NASA's Kepler mission finds 10 Earth-size exoplanets, 209 others
• Meet NASA's newest Astronaut recruits
• Here comes the sun: NASA's first mission to the giant star set for 2018

The release notes that asteroids hit Earth nearly every day, but most are small enough to burn up in the atmosphere.

[RELATED: SpaceX preps for third launch | Where to watch rocket launches on the Space Coast]

But the DART project -- a joint effort between NASA and the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Maryland -- is for the asteroids that are too big to break up -- those that could have severe consequences for the Earth if they hit.

"Wanting to send people into space is inspiring, but impractical."

Elon, as well as NASA, have plans of course. Buzz is working hard on people going to Mars.

"(Humans are fragile, & scientific knowledge is best gained by remote sensing & non-manned probes.)"

We can do both. Many humans want to risk it and we get valuable information from it. "Humans are fragile" is one of many reasons we need to get off the planet. I know a lot of people working really hard on long distance space travel.

"A better use of our resources is to defend what we have...a really wonderful (if slightly used & abused) planet."

We can do both and another reason to go. Overpopulation, asteroids, they can be many extinction events that could happen to us.

"The big one (dino killing size) should be detected far enuf in advance to deflect it into a safe path."

We hope, there are some problems with them coming at us from the direction of the sun.

"asteroids hit Earth nearly every day,"

We get a Tunguska type event every 200 years, enough to wipe out a pretty good chunk of land or a city. Then there was the relatively recent meteor in Russia. It had enough energy as an atomic bomb.

"It doesn’t take a very large object. A 10-meter size object already packs the same energy as a nuclear bomb," Cheng, who led a 2000-2001 mission for NASA to orbit and land on an asteroid,"

About 1,100 injured as meteorite hits Russia with force of atomic bomb

There are not many people watching out for incoming. The number is really low.

Asteroid detection is really important.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Wanting to send people into space is inspiring, but impractical."

Elon, as well as NASA, have plans of course. Buzz is working hard on people going to Mars.

"(Humans are fragile, & scientific knowledge is best gained by remote sensing & non-manned probes.)"

We can do both. Many humans want to risk it and we get valuable information from it. "Humans are fragile" is one of many reasons we need to get off the planet. I know a lot of people working really hard on long distance space travel.

"A better use of our resources is to defend what we have...a really wonderful (if slightly used & abused) planet."

We can do both and another reason to go. Overpopulation, asteroids, they can be many extinction events that could happen to us.

"The big one (dino killing size) should be detected far enuf in advance to deflect it into a safe path."

We hope, there are some problems with them coming at us from the direction of the sun.

"asteroids hit Earth nearly every day,"

We get a Tunguska type event every 200 years, enough to wipe out a pretty good chunk of land or a city. Then there was the relatively recent meteor in Russia. It had enough energy as an atomic bomb.

"It doesn’t take a very large object. A 10-meter size object already packs the same energy as a nuclear bomb," Cheng, who led a 2000-2001 mission for NASA to orbit and land on an asteroid,"

About 1,100 injured as meteorite hits Russia with force of atomic bomb

There are not many people watching out for incoming. The number is really low.

Asteroid detection is really important.

Addresssing overpopulation.....
If we continue this, sending some people to outer space won't fix the problem.
(The great expense, even with major technological advances
would limit this to a teensie tiny few. What good is this?)
It will only expand it to additional venues.

 

[shawn001]

Want to see something amazing, check this out. This is another problem, space junk. We also altered the radiation belts with radio waves, but that is actually kind of beneficial.

Space debris - a journey to Earth takes the audience on a journey from the outer solar system back to our home planet. The objects encountered along the way are manmade. Originally designed to explore the universe, these are now a challenge for modern space flight. An estimated number of 700,000 objects larger than 1 cm and 170 million objects larger than 1mm are expected to reside in Earth orbits.

The video gives a closer look at the different regions used for space flight and explains how mitigation and removal measures could preserve future usage of these orbits.

Produced for the 7th European Conference on Space Debris, 18-21 April 2017.

Space debris - a journey to Earth


Our VLF Radio Waves Are Changing Space

Our VLF Radio Waves Are Changing Space

 

[Revoltingest]

Want to see something amazing, check this out. This is another problem, space junk. We also altered the radiation belts with radio waves, but that is actually kind of beneficial.

Space debris - a journey to Earth takes the audience on a journey from the outer solar system back to our home planet. The objects encountered along the way are manmade. Originally designed to explore the universe, these are now a challenge for modern space flight. An estimated number of 700,000 objects larger than 1 cm and 170 million objects larger than 1mm are expected to reside in Earth orbits.

The video gives a closer look at the different regions used for space flight and explains how mitigation and removal measures could preserve future usage of these orbits.

Produced for the 7th European Conference on Space Debris, 18-21 April 2017.

Space debris - a journey to Earth


Our VLF Radio Waves Are Changing Space

Our VLF Radio Waves Are Changing Space

Yes, space junk is trouble....especially after the Chinese intentionally made it worse.
My favorite mitigation technique is passive, ie, let the objecs' orbits decay without worsening the problem.

 

[shawn001]

Addresssing overpopulation.....
If we continue this, sending some people to outer space won't fix the problem.
(The great expense, even with major technological advances
would limit this to a teensie tiny few. What good is this?)
It will only expand it to additional venues.

I am saying it one answer to one of our biggest problems in the future, along with other measures. Not the only answer.

There are people already working on 3-D printing habitats on the moon, infrastructures in low Earth orbit and a lot more and getting the 85,000 a pound for space flight down to 500 a pound. Technology is happening fast in aerospace. Many medical breakthroughs as well.

It's an exciting time for aerospace, although it's always been.

 

[shawn001]

Yes, space junk is trouble....especially after the Chinese intentionally made it worse.
My favorite mitigation technique is passive, ie, let the objecs' orbits decay without worsening the problem.

This is a company I am partnered with on space debris.

Space Junk - Global Aerospace Corporation

 

[Revoltingest]

I am saying it one answer to one of our biggest problems in the future, along with other measures. Not the only answer.

There are people already working on 3-D printing habitats on the moon, infrastructures in low Earth orbit and a lot more and getting the 85,000 a pound for space flight down to 500 a pound. Technology is happening fast in aerospace. Many medical breakthroughs as well.

It's an exciting time for aerospace, although it's always been.

We're pretty far from any technology which will make lofting payloads into orbit cheap.
Space elvators, anyone?
I used to work in aerospace (military), & superficially keep abreast of developments.
But I'm one of those engineers who dwells on what is likely to go wrong.
I don't see manned space travel as a useful allocation of resources, given the cost,
risk of failure, & public fragility regarding loss of life. I see human presense as more
valuable in enabling unmanned projects, eg, fixing Hubble.

Ironically, advancing technology has been a game changer....manned missions to
the moon made more sense when computer & remote sensing power were dismal.
But now, telepresence (even with communication delays), autonmous devices, &
remote sensing look like far more bang for the buck.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is a company I am partnered with on space debris.

Space Junk - Global Aerospace Corporation

Good luck with that.
It's a massive problem, but the low hanging fruit (big defunct junk) makes sense to address first.

 

[shawn001]

We're pretty far from any technology which will make lofting payloads into orbit cheap.
Space elvators, anyone?
I used to work in aerospace (military), & superficially keep abreast of developments.
But I'm one of those engineers who dwells on what is likely to go wrong.
I don't see manned space travel as a useful allocation of resources, given the cost,
risk of failure, & public fragility regarding loss of life. I see human presense as more
valuable in enabling unmanned projects, eg, fixing Hubble.

Ironically, advancing technology has been a game changer....manned missions to
the moon made more sense when computer & remote sensing power were dismal.
But now, telepresence (even with communication delays), autonmous devices, &
remote sensing look like far more bang for the buck.

With Space X reusable rockets. Which of course still need further testing but so far on the right track and pretty incredible.

"
How Much Cheaper?
We do not know. Ms. Shotwell, the SpaceX executive, has suggested launches with reused boosters could be discounted, to 30 percent off the usual $62 million price tag. SES asked for 50 percent off. Both SpaceX and SES are private companies, and they have not divulged the negotiated going rate, except to acknowledge there was a discount.

Mr. Musk has suggested that rocket launches could eventually be much cheaper since the cost of the rocket propellants are less than 1 percent of the full-price ticket for a launch. So, if a rocket could be simply refueled like a jetliner for another flight, the cost of space travel could drop to a fraction of what it is now.

But the stresses of spaceflight on reused boosters — like the rising mileage on a used car, sometimes called “pre-owned” in today’s parlance — are much greater. The economics will depend on how many times a booster can be flown, and how much the individual expense will be to refurbish the booster — and particularly the engines — each time.

Recycled Rockets Could Drop Costs, Speed Space Travel

I am with you on remote, have no problem with that at all. AI will also help in that regard.

"But I'm one of those engineers who dwells on what is likely to go wrong."

"If you don't have a devil's advocate on your team, get one." Wayne Hale

Lessons Learned from Space Shuttle Columbia

Panelists talked about the lessons learned from the Columbia Space Shuttle tragedy ten years later.

Lessons Learned Space Shuttle Columbia, Mar 8 2013 | C-SPAN.org

I personally also support future manned missions. I am sure you know this debate has been going on for a while.

 

[Revoltingest]

With Space X reusable rockets. Which of course still need further testing but so far on the right track and pretty incredible.

It's interesting, but far from a proven concept.
The shuttle was to be a cost effective reusable too.
Things turned out to be more complicated.

"
How Much Cheaper?
We do not know. Ms. Shotwell, the SpaceX executive, has suggested launches with reused boosters could be discounted, to 30 percent off the usual $62 million price tag. SES asked for 50 percent off. Both SpaceX and SES are private companies, and they have not divulged the negotiated going rate, except to acknowledge there was a discount.

Mr. Musk has suggested that rocket launches could eventually be much cheaper since the cost of the rocket propellants are less than 1 percent of the full-price ticket for a launch. So, if a rocket could be simply refueled like a jetliner for another flight, the cost of space travel could drop to a fraction of what it is now.

But the stresses of spaceflight on reused boosters — like the rising mileage on a used car, sometimes called “pre-owned” in today’s parlance — are much greater. The economics will depend on how many times a booster can be flown, and how much the individual expense will be to refurbish the booster — and particularly the engines — each time.

Recycled Rockets Could Drop Costs, Speed Space Travel

I am with you on remote, have no problem with that at all. AI will also help in that regard.

"But I'm one of those engineers who dwells on what is likely to go wrong."

"If you don't have a devil's advocate on your team, get one." Wayne Hale

Lessons Learned from Space Shuttle Columbia

Panelists talked about the lessons learned from the Columbia Space Shuttle tragedy ten years later.

Lessons Learned Space Shuttle Columbia, Mar 8 2013 | C-SPAN.org

I personally also support future manned missions. I am sure you know this debate has been going on for a while.

Among the lessons to be learned is that lessons must regularly be re-learned.
This is cuz they're eventually forgotten by some links in the chain, & must be re-learned the hard way.
The shuttle shows us that a single bad management decision can bring an entire space program to
a halt for many years. (We cannot face death well.) We cannot cure bad management. We can only
design programs which endure & succed despite it. The "cheaper faster better" approach is one solution.
A manned mission to Mars is the worst possible endeavor...all our eggs in one obscenely expensive
basket...& all eyes on a crew risking death from a multitude of somewhat likely causes.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Wanting to send people into space is inspiring, but impractical.
(Humans are fragile, & scientific knowledge is best gained by remote sensing & non-manned probes.)
A better use of our resources is to defend what we have...a really wonderful (if slightly used & abused) planet.
The big one (dino killing size) should be detected far enuf in advance to deflect it into a safe path.
Progress on that.....
NASA unveils plan to test asteroid defense technique
From the article....
On Friday, the space agency announced plans to redirect the course of a small asteroid approaching Earth, as part of the Double Asteroid Redirection Test (DART), according to a NASA press release.

More National Headlines

• Asteroid Day: Monitoring skies for next strike
• NASA's colorful clouds light up the sky
• NASA's Kepler mission finds 10 Earth-size exoplanets, 209 others
• Meet NASA's newest Astronaut recruits
• Here comes the sun: NASA's first mission to the giant star set for 2018

The release notes that asteroids hit Earth nearly every day, but most are small enough to burn up in the atmosphere.

[RELATED: SpaceX preps for third launch | Where to watch rocket launches on the Space Coast]

But the DART project -- a joint effort between NASA and the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Maryland -- is for the asteroids that are too big to break up -- those that could have severe consequences for the Earth if they hit.

I see it now.

Asteroid gets diverted.

Asteroid then hits alien planet.

Aliens discover it's earth's fault.

Aliens arrive at earth.

Aliens throw pieces of asteroid back at earth.

Earth blows up.

Aliens give finger.

Aliens leave solar system.

 

[Quetzal]

It's interesting, but far from a proven concept.
The shuttle was to be a cost effective reusable too.
Things turned out to be more complicated.

Still have a ways to go, for sure. But let's not forget the shuttle is a reusable spacecraft in comparison to the Falcon 9 which is a reusable rocket. So there are some differences and varying difficulties.

 

[Wu Wei]

Wanting to send people into space is inspiring, but impractical.
(Humans are fragile, & scientific knowledge is best gained by remote sensing & non-manned probes.)
A better use of our resources is to defend what we have...a really wonderful (if slightly used & abused) planet.
The big one (dino killing size) should be detected far enuf in advance to deflect it into a safe path.
Progress on that.....
NASA unveils plan to test asteroid defense technique
From the article....
On Friday, the space agency announced plans to redirect the course of a small asteroid approaching Earth, as part of the Double Asteroid Redirection Test (DART), according to a NASA press release.

More National Headlines

• Asteroid Day: Monitoring skies for next strike
• NASA's colorful clouds light up the sky
• NASA's Kepler mission finds 10 Earth-size exoplanets, 209 others
• Meet NASA's newest Astronaut recruits
• Here comes the sun: NASA's first mission to the giant star set for 2018

The release notes that asteroids hit Earth nearly every day, but most are small enough to burn up in the atmosphere.

[RELATED: SpaceX preps for third launch | Where to watch rocket launches on the Space Coast]

But the DART project -- a joint effort between NASA and the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Maryland -- is for the asteroids that are too big to break up -- those that could have severe consequences for the Earth if they hit.

My only problem with this is it should have been called "Space Jart"

 

[omega2xx]

Wanting to send people into space is inspiring, but impractical.
(Humans are fragile, & scientific knowledge is best gained by remote sensing & non-manned probes.)
A better use of our resources is to defend what we have...a really wonderful (if slightly used & abused) planet.
The big one (dino killing size) should be detected far enuf in advance to deflect it into a safe path.
Progress on that.....
NASA unveils plan to test asteroid defense technique
From the article....
On Friday, the space agency announced plans to redirect the course of a small asteroid approaching Earth, as part of the Double Asteroid Redirection Test (DART), according to a NASA press release.

More National Headlines

• Asteroid Day: Monitoring skies for next strike
• NASA's colorful clouds light up the sky
• NASA's Kepler mission finds 10 Earth-size exoplanets, 209 others
• Meet NASA's newest Astronaut recruits
• Here comes the sun: NASA's first mission to the giant star set for 2018

The release notes that asteroids hit Earth nearly every day, but most are small enough to burn up in the atmosphere.

[RELATED: SpaceX preps for third launch | Where to watch rocket launches on the Space Coast]

But the DART project -- a joint effort between NASA and the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Maryland -- is for the asteroids that are too big to break up -- those that could have severe consequences for the Earth if they hit.

After we learned to minimize components and landed on the moon and returned, NASA is a big waste of money.

The moon rocks have proved nothing and very little useful information has been gained by their other experiments, unless showing a monkey can also live in a spacecraft is useful

 

[Revoltingest]

I see it now.

Asteroid gets diverted.

Asteroid then hits alien planet.

Aliens discover it's earth's fault.

Aliens arrive at earth.

Aliens throw pieces of asteroid back at earth.

Earth blows up.

Aliens give finger.

Aliens leave solar system.

Only if Quetzal is a snitch.
And what do we do with snitches?

 

[Stevicus]

Wanting to send people into space is inspiring, but impractical.
(Humans are fragile, & scientific knowledge is best gained by remote sensing & non-manned probes.)
A better use of our resources is to defend what we have...a really wonderful (if slightly used & abused) planet.

I agree. Space is much too big, and we don't have the resources to send large numbers of people and supplies to other planets for colonization. I remember when I was a kid watching the Moon landings, it was predicted that there would be a Moon base and regular trips to the Moon by the end of the century. This prediction never really came to pass, although it seemed reasonable at the time, based on technology we already had - not on some imagined futuristic technologies which haven't been invented yet.

It might be somewhat worthwhile if they find resources or rare elements they could mine on Mars or elsewhere within the Solar System. That seems like it might have some potential in the distant future, but not anything we'll see in our lifetimes.

 

[Wu Wei]

And what do we do with snitches?

is it feed em' to the bears?...

 

[Revoltingest]

Still have a ways to go, for sure. But let's not forget the shuttle is a reusable spacecraft in comparison to the Falcon 9 which is a reusable rocket. So there are some differences and varying difficulties.

I'm looking at the similarities of total systems.
If people are launched into space, the various components (launch venue, rockets, space
vehicle, landing vehicles, space suits, etc) which achieve that still have high cost & risk.

"Reusable" is a very very high hurdle. It's a design criterion very different from single use.
It takes longer & it's far more involved, eg, testing phases.
Compare that to unmanned missions, which have lower requirements in almost all areas.

I say we've begun the golden age of space exploration with the end of the moon missions.
Pioneer, Voyager, WMAP, Spitzer telescope, Mars rovers, Viking, Cassini-Huygens, Chandra
Observatory, & the Hubble telescope have altered our thinking of the universe far more than
Apollo. Sure, sure, Apollo was inspiring, exciting & yielded bountiful results. But it's greatest
value was PR drama.

 

[Revoltingest]

After we learned to minimize components and landed on the moon and returned, NASA is a big waste of money.

The moon rocks have proved nothing and very little useful information has been gained by their other experiments, unless showing a monkey can also live in a spacecraft is useful

I'd say the moon rocks were & are useful, but what is the cost v benefit ratio?
It's high indeed, at over $50K/gram.
The capability to collect such things remotely is increasing quickly, AI being key.