Overpopulation

[Politesse]

You are completely ignoring climate change and our impact on said environment. We can't know what the status of the earth world have been like today if we were not here, since we could not observe it. So your statement is intellectually dishonest excluding that information. If there is say 1 car for every American citizen, and half of them die. do you think that will positively affect the environment?

I certainly do, but you couldn't see the difference in your lifetime.

How? That wouldn't disable the car industry, and the impact on the market for cars would be temporary, since whoever took over our sociopolitical reins would quickly rebuild it. Not to mention the fact that whatever killed 150 million people overnight is very likely to have a rather nasty set of ongoing, possibly even irreversible environmental side effects.

By the way, there are about .9 cars per American citizen, and about 90% of households have access to at least one car on a regular basis. This does not have an even distribution socially or geographically, and there's a major problem here with your idea that population is the primary driver of car ownership, since the most densely populated regions of the US - its major cities - are the least car filled per capita; in many rural areas, nearly half of individuals own their own vehicles, a statistic that would be physically impossible and economically improbable in a densely packed urban barrio.

 

[Cacotopia]

I didn't say it would be perfect in this hypothetical scenario. lots of bio waste left over from rotting corpses, lots of left over machines etc etc. it would be catastophic, but I think the continued use is worse than what would remain were such an event were to occur.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Oh man how can I say the same thing different ways.

plague out break occurs. Public health system does not intervene zero health care is provided.

I heard you the first time. You realize that there is more Healthcare that exist other than beef Public Health System right? Especially in places like the US where there is quite a bit more private healthcare than there is public health care.

Even without Healthcare Systems of any kind, the rich would have better access to antimicrobials, cleanroom technology, additional security to prevent sick people from getting in, noncommunal sources of food restrooms Etc.

Once again, the idea that a plague would take poor and rich alike in equal ratio is not something I can see being viable.
And it doesn't much matter because you'll never convince people to not address a plague anyway.
I would rather time focusing on real solutions to finding alternative natural resources, harvesting resources in a more renewable way, creating and maintaining ecological sanctuaries, finding common ground with other nations to put forward group solutions for our environment, an investment and technology that will allow all of the above. And it has the advantage of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Cacotopia]

I never said they would be in equal ratios. Please quote me where I said that. Don't worry I'll wait. This is a hypothetical fantasy scenario. Not reality.

 

[Politesse]

I never said they would be in equal ratios. Please quote me where I said that. Don't worry I'll wait. This is a hypothetical fantasy scenario. Not reality.

Ah, so you aren't trying to kill the poor. You are just ignoring the fact that your "solutions" would disproportionately kill the poor.

Purposely not admitting to the consequences of your suggestions doesn't let you off the hook for the likely consequences of your suggestions. It's not putting words in your mouth to critically consider the likely impact of the words you did say. It's just putting more thought into your opinions than you did.

 

[Cacotopia]

People need to have a vested interest in the future, greed and self interest don't have that in mind, burn it all get what you can and enjoy what you can get out of this life. Not enough people share the prior ideal. It's certainly not taught, especially in America, you are taught to be competitive to be the best to buy that latest gadgets and doodads to be "in." Your phone might have 5 years or more of life in it provided you don't drop it too often or drop in the toilet, but when the next phone that comes out most try to get if they can afford it, or even when they can't. You don't need it, but it's perfectly acceptable to have the new iphone X or whatever it is when the Iphone 5 still serves essentially the same purpose.

 

[Cacotopia]

Ah, so you aren't trying to kill the poor. You are just ignoring the fact that your "solutions" would disproportionately kill the poor.

Purposely not admitting to the consequences of your suggestions doesn't let you off the hook for the likely consequences of your suggestions. It's not putting words in your mouth to critically consider the likely impact of the words you did say. It's just putting more thought into your opinions than you did.

Agreed the idea has a great many flaws, and no plausible solutions. As stated initially. I don't want to kill the planet but I know we are killing ourselves and a great many other species. So how do you stop it, that's the point here. I don't think we are smart enough to turn ourselves around. I don't have faith in humanity that we would do the right thing. But I don't know what the right thing is. But I think we need a kick in our *** to maybe give our priorities a reset.

 

[Politesse]

People need to have a vested interest in the future, greed and self interest don't have that in mind, burn it all get what you can and enjoy what you can get out of this life. Not enough people share the prior ideal. It's certainly not taught, especially in America, you are taught to be competitive to be the best to buy that latest gadgets and doodads to be "in." Your phone might have 5 years or more of life in it provided you don't drop it too often or drop in the toilet, but when the next phone that comes out most try to get if they can afford it, or even when they can't. You don't need it, but it's perfectly acceptable to have the new iphone X or whatever it is when the Iphone 5 still serves essentially the same purpose.

See, all of those are actual reasons for the decline of global environments. I can easily agree on those. How would gallons of unjustly spilled blood, or gallons or spermicide, eliminate any of those damaging attitudes?

 

[WalterTrull]

Wouldn't it be interesting if that "first born" thing happened again? Well, not really. Being a first born, I'd prefer a "second born" thing this time 'round.

 

[Cacotopia]

Wouldn't it be interesting if that "first born" thing happened again? Well, not really. Being a first born, I'd prefer a "second born" thing this time 'round.

Lol I'm second born. Let's go with 3rd-14th born instead.

 

[Cacotopia]

See, all of those are actual reasons for the decline of global environments. I can easily agree on those. How would gallons of unjustly spilled blood, or gallons or spermicide, eliminate any of those damaging attitudes?

I don't know, I know that when a fire is set under the tucus, we tend to move out of the way.

 

[Politesse]

Wouldn't it be interesting if that "first born" thing happened again? Well, not really. Being a first born, I'd prefer a "second born" thing this time 'round.

The People's Republic of China attempted exactly that. Did it work? Is the ecosystem of the Chinese countryside looking perky and happy and healthy?

 

[Politesse]

I don't know, I know that when a fire is set under the tucus, we tend to move out of the way.

Indeed. Usually by finding a way to blame our problems on an external scapegoat, even if it makes no sense to do so.

 

[Cacotopia]

See, all of those are actual reasons for the decline of global environments. I can easily agree on those. How would gallons of unjustly spilled blood, or gallons or spermicide, eliminate any of those damaging attitudes?

You would need to entirely restructure/rebuild multiple social systems and services in order to reverse damaging attitudes. Change the entire educational system, capitalism doesn't help very much here. I can't even answer it all. you would need to fundamentally change nearly every aspect of American society in particular to achieve it. And on top of that you need at minimum 150/200 years for it to be fully implemented. Because despite the system being different, older generations remember the "good ole days" and they will influence future generations as well as those that experienced it during the transitional phase.

The old ways need to be forgotten. And despite the abysmally short attention spans of Americans regarding current events, their way of life changing, different tale.

 

[Cacotopia]

I don't not enjoy the criticism I am getting here. I thank you all for illuminating the flaws of my thought processes. I genuinely do.

 

[WalterTrull]

I don't not enjoy the criticism I am getting here. I thank you all for illuminating the flaws of my thought processes. I genuinely do.

Fellah!! Gotta thicken that skin a bit around here. No one is criticizing YOU. However, any idea presented here is going to incite a lot of nay sayers. It will also trigger a few attaboys. Roll with it. We all learn a lot from criticism

 

[Cacotopia]

Fellah!! Gotta thicken that skin a bit around here. No one is criticizing YOU. However, any idea presented here is going to incite a lot of nay sayers. It will also trigger a few attaboys. Roll with it. We all learn a lot from criticism

I'm not getting personally attacked, my idea is. You can't learn from people that only agree with you. I know that.

 

[WalterTrull]

I'm not getting personally attacked, my idea is. You can't learn from people that only agree with you. I know that.

Cool.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I wonder, what would be the theoretical environmental effect of weening out people with sick sophomoric fantasies?

 

[Valjean]

I'm not talking about overpopulation in areas of the planet, I'm referring to the negative impact humanity perpetrate on the biosphere and in the future if no 'adjustments' are made might lead to a collapse in the ecosystem. That would result in a mass extinction event. Now I don't know if the biosphere would collapse. But it is not impossible since we have not experienced a full blown nuclear holocaust.

Good points.
It's not a matter of just feeding or housing ourselves. Overpopulation impacts the complex ecological interactions that maintain the stability of the biosphere that supports us.
We depend on all the other organisms that maintain the natural systems of the planet, and the "lower on the food chain" the more important the organism.Earth could do without us, but could it survive without the marine phytoplankton, rainforests, mangrove forests or soil mycorrhiza?
You can remove the top floor and a building would still stand, but not the foundation. If our numbers are impacting the air, water, soil, ocean currents and climate the biosphere has a problem.

We could just simply kill off those that we feel are wasting space....just sayin'.

Haven't we already been pursuing this option for millennia?

Give me a single historical example of a case where a massive population loss resulted in the healthy recovery of an ecosystem. There are plenty of mass murder incidents to choose from. Cambodia. Poland. Hiroshima. Northern California. Which of those natural environments is looking perky and healthy now that a bunch of humans died on top of them?

Post plague Europe, 1500s Americas, Chernobyl exclusion zone.