Pagan religions

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, what we mean by "Pagan" with respect to this DIR tends to refer specifically to a Western, new religious movement aimed at reviving and reconstructing aspects of historical Western Paganisms.

When I think of Western, I think of America. I notice in the Pagan DIR there are Greek, Roman (I think?), and a couple of others I can't think of. Can't think of my geography right now, but would you consider than Western? Is that what Pagans today are reconstructing?

Extending the usage of the term "Paganisms" outside of the newer religious movement is... well, it's doable, but it makes the term even more problematically imprecise

I'd think it's technically correct that (my words) cultures outside of the newer religious movement would still be considered pagan (lower p) but probably more appropriate for the indigenous DIR with the definition you've explained above?

 

[VioletVortex]

Well, what we mean by "Pagan" with respect to this DIR tends to refer specifically to a Western, new religious movement aimed at reviving and reconstructing aspects of historical Western Paganisms. We started applying the term that way, thus it's not too surprising when other religious movements don't use that vocabulary. Extending the usage of the term "Paganisms" outside of the newer religious movement is... well, it's doable, but it makes the term even more problematically imprecise. But considering how imprecise it already is... eh... six of one, half dozen of other.

Agreed. Very rarely have I heard African and Asian religions revered to as "Pagan". Occasionally, Native American religions are considered to be Pagan, but it almost always refers to European Paganism and various revivals and derivatives of it, such as Wicca.

 

[Callisto]

Dear Friends, can you give me a list of pagan religions. What are some pagan religions?

It depends on the sense in which the word "pagan" is meant. As others have indicated, there are those definitions that originate from Christianity: meaning any pre-Christian/indigenous practices and, ironically, something/someone who is godless, profane, faithless, barbaric etc. By that absurd standard, almost anything is allegedly "pagan" per the accuser's choosing.

Neopagan is a more accurate term for what, I assume, you're inquiring about. Indigenous cultural practices don't self-identify as "pagan" nor belong in the "Neopagan" category. Neopagan is a movement that came out of the Western Esotericism of previous centuries. While cultural appropriation is sometimes an issue (e.g., ripping off shamanic and Native American practices), that exploitation doesn't mean those practices are Neopagan themselves.

Even practices that fall under Neopagan don't always identify as such. Many Reconstructionists reject the term "pagan" since ancient peoples didn't self-identify as such. Many prefer "(modern) polytheist", some will allow for the application of "Neopagan" when in a generic sense (neo implying new, modern; pagan includes polytheisms).

I doubt you can find a comprehensive list of Neopagan practices. At best, one would be able to focus on compiling specific Pagan and Witchcraft traditions with their subsets. The largest Neopagan segment by far is Eclecticism and there really is no way to get a handle on what all comes under that. At best, one might be able to categorize it in terms of most common theisms found within it.

 

[Callisto]

Having studied a fair bit of it, Druidry isn't precisely "Celtic Paganism."

Wicca is not Celtic at all. The only thing celtic (lower 'c') about it is some borrowed words. It's British which is why its traditions are collectively referred to as British Traditional Wicca.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Wicca is not Celtic at all. The only thing celtic (lower 'c') about it is some borrowed words. It's British which is why its traditions are collectively referred to as British Traditional Wicca.

I think you're mixing Wicca up with British Traditional Witchcraft which is a path independent of Wicca. In all my years in the Pagan community I've never heard of "British Traditional Wicca".

 

[Aštra’el]

I do not perceive my spiritual-religious system as a revival religion or re-constructionalist movement... though it might be described as an evolution of the religions and mythologies that originally inspired it... an evolution that I can embrace and alter and move forward with in any way I Will. Many of the gods and goddesses in my pantheon share similar namings and characteristics and deific archetypes as various deities of ancient Mesopotamia, pre-monotheistic Abrahamism, and even some within pantheons of modern Abrahamism. Strength, power, wisdom, and beauty is found and absorbed from any other spiritual-religious system I wish, so long as it resonates with my Weltanschauung and True Will.

I suppose from the outside one might perceive it as some form of open minded Middle Eastern inspired paganism. From my perspective, it is whatever I want it to be. It is the harmony of my interior universe with the exterior universe. It is the product of a mind and heart in equilibrium. It is my spirit, awakened to life, reaching out into the world Above and Below and around me and beyond the stars.

 

[Callisto]

I think you're mixing Wicca up with British Traditional Witchcraft which is a path independent of Wicca. In all my years in the Pagan community I've never heard of "British Traditional Wicca".

Not at all. A quick internet search will confirm that the religion attributed to Gardner is commonly called such. Both labels "British Traditional Wicca" and "British Traditional Witchcraft" exist, though "BT Wicca" predates the creation of "BT Witchcraft."

Prior to the recent growth of Neopagan eclecticism, "Wicca" solely was applied to the Wiccan traditions. After publishers found it lucrative to publish books purporting to provide "solitary Wicca", it became necessary to distinguish traditional Wiccan practices from the eclectic/New Age practices of these books. That's what prompted the redundant label "British Traditional Wicca". As the word "wicca" continued to be generically applied (to the point where it's often, still, erroneously used as a synonym for "paganism" and "witchcraft"), other traditional non-Wiccan witchcrafts took issue at wrongly being referred to as "wicca" and began using "British Traditional Witchcraft". Even though that term is not without confusion since it's an umbrella term for various British Crafts, of which Wicca is one. Still, among practitioners of either, BT Wicca and BT Witchcraft are commonly used to make the distinction.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Not at all. A quick internet search will confirm that the religion attributed to Gardner is commonly called such. Both labels "British Traditional Wicca" and "British Traditional Witchcraft" exist, though "BT Wicca" predates the creation of "BT Witchcraft."

Prior to the recent growth of Neopagan eclecticism, "Wicca" solely was applied to the Wiccan traditions. After publishers found it lucrative to publish books purporting to provide "solitary Wicca", it became necessary to distinguish traditional Wiccan practices from the eclectic/New Age practices of these books. That's what prompted the redundant label "British Traditional Wicca". As the word "wicca" continued to be generically applied (to the point where it's often, still, erroneously used as a synonym for "paganism" and "witchcraft"), other traditional non-Wiccan witchcrafts took issue at wrongly being referred to as "wicca" and began using "British Traditional Witchcraft". Even though that term is not without confusion since it's an umbrella term for various British Crafts, of which Wicca is one. Still, among practitioners of either, BT Wicca and BT Witchcraft are commonly used to make the distinction.

Wow, I didn't know that. Very informative, thanks!

Oh, and welcome to the forum. It's nice to see another worshipper of the Olympians there are too few of us around here as it is!!

 

[Callisto]

Wow, I didn't know that. Very informative, thanks!

Oh, and welcome to the forum. It's nice to see another worshipper of the Olympians there are too few of us around here as it is!!

Thank you for the welcome! So far I've found this forum to be a nice diverse change of pace from various pagan-only forums.

 

[Serpent Child]

True Ancient Satanism is the oldest form of Paganism.

 

[Toten]

True Ancient Satanism is the oldest form of Paganism.

Oh dear...

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

True Ancient Satanism is the oldest form of Paganism.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

True Ancient Satanism is the oldest form of Paganism.

No it's not for two reasons:

1. Satan is an Abrahamic concept, not a Pagan one;
2. Pagan religions & practises were around for millennia before the Abrahamic religions came along.

Satanism is actually a branch of the Abrahamic family of faiths. To say otherwise would invite the claim that because there are Christo-Pagans out there that Jesus is a Pagan god which is absurd.

 

[Serpent Child]

No it's not for two reasons:

1. Satan is an Abrahamic concept, not a Pagan one;
2. Pagan religions & practises were around for millennia before the Abrahamic religions came along.

Satanism is actually a branch of the Abrahamic family of faiths. To say otherwise would invite the claim that because there are Christo-Pagans out there that Jesus is a Pagan god which is absurd.

Satan is not and never will be an invention of the abrahamic religions. True Ancient Satanism is based upon ancient pagan religions, such as Ancient Hinduism and Ancient Buddhism - Satan's name is found in Ancient Sumerian Hieroglyphs, and is aka the Sumerian God Enki/Ea. In my faith Satan and His Daemons are also Greek, Egyptian, Celtic, Irish, Sumerian, Indian, Hindu, Norse, ect Gods/Goddesses. There are literally Ancient Satanic Scriptures.

 

[Toten]

There are literally Ancient Satanic Scriptures.

Name them.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Satan is not and never will be an invention of the abrahamic religions.

The first religion to mention Satan is Judaism - the oldest Abrahamic religion.

True Ancient Satanism is based upon ancient pagan religions, such as Ancient Hinduism and Ancient Buddhism

No it isn't. It's based on a modern exegesis that works about as well as trying to force a cylindrical block through a square hole usually works. And, three things:

1. Buddhism is not a Pagan religion.
2. The first religion to mention Satan is Judaism.
3. Satanism as a belief system sprouted out of the Christian world & the Christian concept of Satan. It's an Abrahamic faith.

- Satan's name is found in Ancient Sumerian Hieroglyphs, and is aka the Sumerian God Enki/Ea.

Got any credible sources to back this up?

In my faith Satan and His Daemons are also Greek, Egyptian, Celtic, Irish, Sumerian, Indian, Hindu, Norse, ect Gods/Goddesses.

"Satan & devils = Pagan gods". Yeah. That sounds an awful lot like what Abrahamic faiths say to me.

Aside from all this if you're a Satanist then you've got your own DIR to post in.

There are literally Ancient Satanic Scriptures.

Oh yeah? What are they called and how old are they?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

In the USA, "pagan" usually means what scholars would call "neopaganism": modern religions which try to recapture the spirit of ancient European paganism (sometimes without knowing much about it), like Wicca and Druidry. Since all other pagans are polytheist and some Wiccans aren't even theist at all, they can be regarded as pagans by courtesy.

This is closest to how I use and see "Pagan(ism)" used in America; also to add with what @Quintessence said, over-applying the term to everything not Christian makes it, more or less, useless.

When I converse with the Pagan Community at large, or when I go to the Pagan section of bookstores, the commonly encountered cultures are Norse, Greek/Roman, and Celtic. Slavic culture is sadly scarce (they took a bigger Christianization blow than others), but I see a lot of Slavic Pagans in Heathen circles - Heathenry referring thus to Norse, Slavic, and Uralic (Estonia and Finland) cultural beliefs. Egypt is also present in the bookstore sections, and I'll find Wiccans who use Egyptian deities, but actual Egyptian polytheists - Kemeticists and Asetians -
don't consider themselves to be Pagan. Some even resent that Wicca uses their gods.

Thus Wicca is... problematic for me. And for those who like to classify things for a sense of order. Many Wiccans that I have encountered tend to "borrow" from many cultures, namely that of Buddhism and Hinduism, as well as indigenous American beliefs - or what can be gathered of them. This leads to the notion that these things are a part of Paganism, yet in speaking with Hindus and indigenous American tribes, none of them have considered themselves "Pagans," don't recognize the term, or prefer not to associate with it in favor of their religious terms. Buddhism is the odd one out for this, as they've got the "everything" thing going, but for myself - and those I associate with regularly - they're an Eastern religion/philosophy, not a Pagan one.

In short, Paganism - forgetting what was with the word in it's origin - refers to modern reconstructive efforts and faith systems of pre-Christian European cultural beliefs.

 

[Callisto]

Thus Wicca is... problematic for me. And for those who like to classify things for a sense of order. Many Wiccans that I have encountered tend to "borrow" from many cultures, namely that of Buddhism and Hinduism, as well as indigenous American beliefs - or what can be gathered of them. This leads to the notion that these things are a part of Paganism, yet in speaking with Hindus and indigenous American tribes, none of them have considered themselves "Pagans," don't recognize the term, or prefer not to associate with it in favor of their religious terms.

What's muddying the waters is that often what is being called "Wicca" is more precisely eclectic witchcraft, the majority of which borrows from actual Wicca and various other practices including those you cite. It's not a continuation of what's attributed to Gardner, it is the product of softcover pop culture books that gained popularity largely in the 1990s. Anything and everything paganish, witchcrafty and New Agey was given "wicca" in the title in order to create "solitary Wicca". Unfortunately, publishers and authors often still persist in doing so and the result is rampant misinformation about Wicca specifically and Neopaganism in general.

Wicca itself is a type of pagan priesthood of specific deities which maintains a specific cultus. These gods are not named publicly. That non-disclosure coupled with Wicca having essentially a henotheistic view has been misconstrued as meaning any and all gods are inherent to the practice of Wicca.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

A fair point, and anthropologically I tend to agree, but good luck telling that to the vast swath of "Wiccans".

 

[Callisto]

A fair point, and anthropologically I tend to agree, but good luck telling that to the vast swath of "Wiccans".

Yes, sadly I'm well acquainted with the range of rampant honest naivete to willful ignorance to full blown charlatanism.