Paganism

[michel]

I Hope you will not mind my'borrowing' something you said, Lilithu, because I actually agree with you, and would like others' opinions - obviously especially that of Pagans

In fact, I was surprised when some self-identified Pagans in RF said that they were ultimately monotheistic, or henotheistic, believing in "the Source." My own understanding of (as an interested observer not a believer) was that, while it is polytheistic in that there are many gods and goddesses, it is atheistic with respect to some unifying underlying all-encompassing God. I did not get the impression that there is some ultimate plan or higher purpose being orchestrated.

Any takers?

 

[Merlin]

I Hope you will not mind my'borrowing' something you said, Lilithu, because I actually agree with you, and would like others' opinions - obviously especially that of Pagans


Any takers?

I thought a pagan believed in a God or more than one God.

They are just called pagans by people who are arrogant enough to believe that they themselves have the true religion. If it turns out that the so called pagans are correct, then it is Christians and Moslems who are the real pagans

That first step towards the pearly gate is surely going to be a very interesting one. Some people will have very red faces (if we still have faces)

 

[michel]

I thought a pagan believed in a God or more than one God.

They are just called pagans by people who are arrogant enough to believe that they themselves have the true religion. If it turns out that the so called pagans are correct, then it is Christians and Moslems who are the real pagans

That first step towards the pearly gate is surely going to be a very interesting one. Some people will have very red faces (if we still have faces)

No, you haven't understood what I am after. Pagans do believe in Gods, that was never in question - the point I was hoping someone would clear up was :- do the pagan Gods (or maybe 'senior' god if there is a hirearchy) have an ultimate plan for thir followers ?

 

[Merlin]

No, you haven't understood what I am after. Pagans do believe in Gods, that was never in question - the point I was hoping someone would clear up was :- do the pagan Gods (or maybe 'senior' god if there is a hirearchy) have an ultimate plan for thir followers ?

Does our God?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Arrrrghhh! I had a nice reply typed up and my computer decided that was a good time to shut down.

A lot us us embrace the term 'pagan'. Its origin is basically 'country bumpkin.' Since so many of us would prefer to live in the country, since there's easier access to nature, it's a highly acceptable phrase. *grin*

While I percieve my gods as being compassionate, loving ones, they don't tend to let me in on any master plan that they might have, if they have one. They seem to prefer to have us help ourselves and help each other. Mine aren't distant, as some pagan traditions think of them as being, but they're more of the 'do it yourself' type.

 

[Darkdale]

No, you haven't understood what I am after. Pagans do believe in Gods, that was never in question - the point I was hoping someone would clear up was :- do the pagan Gods (or maybe 'senior' god if there is a hirearchy) have an ultimate plan for thir followers ?

I depends on the god or goddess in question. Every god has it's own niche. For heathens, the ultimate plan is for their followers to live an honorable, courageous, exciting and enjoyable life; strengthening their family and community.

 

[michel]

I depends on the god or goddess in question. Every god has it's own niche. For heathens, the ultimate plan is for their followers to live an honorable, courageous, exciting and enjoyable life; strengthening their family and community.

I understand that - but I think I was looking for somesort of 'Salvation' system (as in Christianity). Am I right in thinking Pagan Gods have no such 'plans' ?

 

[Darkdale]

I understand that - but I think I was looking for somesort of 'Salvation' system (as in Christianity). Am I right in thinking Pagan Gods have no such 'plans' ?

No, I can't think of a single "pagan" tradition that believes in Salvation. I'll see if I can think some up and I'll let you know, but I doubt it.

 

[Druidus]

There is no real plan in Druidry. The various Gods may have plans of their own, in the same way that we have plans, but these are not plans for divine salvation. The Source also has no plans for us.

 

[lilithu]

I Hope you will not mind my'borrowing' something you said, Lilithu, because I actually agree with you, and would like others' opinions - obviously especially that of Pagans

Any takers?

Hey Michel, I don't mind, but could you let me know, either by PM or in the donor thread, when you do this? This is the second time that I know of, and it's a little disconcerting to click on a thread just out of curiosity and find one's own words staring back.

I would like to always have the opportunity to make sure that I am being understood correctly. For example, here I would like to make it clear that I did not write that as a criticism of Paganism, just an observation. My own monotheistic conception of God does not necessarily include a higher purpose or plan, so I do not see this as a failing.

Thanks.

 

[Merlin]

I depends on the god or goddess in question. Every god has it's own niche. For heathens, the ultimate plan is for their followers to live an honorable, courageous, exciting and enjoyable life; strengthening their family and community.

I gather what you are saying is that as far as the gods are concerned, humankind has no purpose.

For what it's worth, there is no universal agreement on what is honourable. I am sure the Vikings thought they were being very honourable when they were out raping and pillaging the world. I am also sure that that would have been a very exciting and enjoyable life - for them.

 

[Darkdale]

I gather what you are saying is that as far as the gods are concerned, humankind has no purpose.

For what it's worth, there is no universal agreement on what is honourable. I am sure the Vikings thought they were being very honourable when they were out raping and pillaging the world. I am also sure that that would have been a very exciting and enjoyable life - for them.

For what it's worth? That post wasn't worth a bucket of ****.

 

[Merlin]

For what it's worth? That post wasn't worth a bucket of ****.

Explain please.

 

[Darkdale]

Explain please.

No. If you can't figure it out for yourself, you certainly won't be able to understand the explanation. I think it's best if we just avoid each other. This could be a good thread. No sense ruining it with a bitter argument.

 

[Merlin]

No. If you can't figure it out for yourself, you certainly won't be able to understand the explanation. I think it's best if we just avoid each other. This could be a good thread. No sense ruining it with a bitter argument.

I never get bitter. I am totally at peace with the world.

For what it is worth, I was trying to make the point at different periods in history consider honour and duty etc, in completely different ways. It is often difficult for modern people to interpret historical events correctly when we apply our modern social mores.

I would expect that the Crusaders believed that they were behaving totally correctly, and totally honourably, and totally in God's will, when they did all of their raping and pillaging through the holy lands. Maybe if we had grown up in those days, we would have agreed with them.

 

[michel]

Hey Michel, I don't mind, but could you let me know, either by PM or in the donor thread, when you do this? This is the second time that I know of, and it's a little disconcerting to click on a thread just out of curiosity and find one's own words staring back.

I would like to always have the opportunity to make sure that I am being understood correctly. For example, here I would like to make it clear that I did not write that as a criticism of Paganism, just an observation. My own monotheistic conception of God does not necessarily include a higher purpose or plan, so I do not see this as a failing.

Thanks.

Lilithu, namaste.

I am truly sorry to have upset you. Now that you have pointed out your reaction, I understand it perfectly; I honestly did not mean to put any particular slant on your post; I just thought that the question I was about to ask on the thread which contained your post would have been off topic, and out of bounds.

I never saw your post as being a criticism of Paganism. Who believes what and why is entirely up to them. Again, please accept my apologies.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Just a gentle reminder: this is the discussion forum, not the debate area. If you wish to debate something (like the history of a group) please post it over in the debate area. Thanks!

 

[lilithu]

Lilithu, namaste.

I am truly sorry to have upset you. Now that you have pointed out your reaction, I understand it perfectly; I honestly did not mean to put any particular slant on your post; I just thought that the question I was about to ask on the thread which contained your post would have been off topic, and out of bounds.

I never saw your post as being a criticism of Paganism. Who believes what and why is entirely up to them. Again, please accept my apologies.

Michel, as I said in PM, I did not think that you had put a slant on my post. I was just asking that, if you start threads from my posts in the future, could you please let me know via PM or a post in the old thread? That way, I won't be surprised when I click on a thread that I thought had nothing to do with me, and I will have the opportunity to speak for myself, if someone misunderstands what I was saying. If you warn me beforehand then I have no problem with your quoting me. In fact , it is an honor. Thanks.

 

[Merlin]

Just a gentle reminder: this is the discussion forum, not the debate area. If you wish to debate something (like the history of a group) please post it over in the debate area. Thanks!

Is this thread not under 'general debates'?

 

[Darkdale]

Thank you to your kindness. I do find it amazing how everybody assumes that everybody else's ignorant, and that their beliefs are perfect truth.

Some historical beliefs are supported with more facts and evidence than others.