Paid less for doing exactly the same work

[David Young]

This question concerns the world of employment in the USA, Canada, the UK, the EU, New Zealand and Australia. It is about employment in the open labour market and not the black economy. It is not about people who are self-employed.

Can you name a job where women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same work?

 

[oldbadger]

This question concerns the world of employment in the USA, Canada, the UK, the EU, New Zealand and Australia. It is about employment in the open labour market and not the black economy. It is not about people who are self-employed.

Can you name a job where women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same work?

The BBC was found to be paying female news anchors much less than the men, but I couldn't care less about that particular situation because they're all being paid huge incomes.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Can you name a job where women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same work?

No.
Not for the exact same job and the exact same hours.

Well, I should clarify.......
Not based on the gender anyway.

Plenty of people doing the exact same job and the exact same hours are paid differently.
But there's a whole lot of variables that come into this.

Like age, seniority within the company, qualification levels, prior experience,... And that's off course within the same company.
When comparing jobs in different companies, then you can add to that additional variables like general company culture or company budget. A multi-billion dollar multi-national is obviously going to have more budget for wages then a small regional company with a revenue of less then a million. Next to that, there's also the competition on the job market on the side of the companies themselves... If there are more jobs for not enough candidates, then those companies might start competing with one another by offering better wages or benefits or whatever, to try and attract those workers - basic supply and demand.

But purely based on gender? Not that I'm aware of.

 

[idea]

From Google:

Women are paid less than men in many jobs, including:

• Financial managers: Women earn 71% of what men earn
  
  
• Retail salespersons: Women earn 72% of what men earn
  
  
• Education and childcare administrators: Women earn 79% of what men earn
  
  
• Administrative assistants: Women earn 80% of what men earn
  
  
• Managers: Women earn 81% of what men earn
  
  
• Personal financial advisors: Men earn 58% more than women
  
  
• Insurance sales agents: Men earn 55% more than women
  
  
• Sales managers: Men earn 47% more than women
  
  
• School bus drivers: Men earn 46% more than women.

Women are also paid less than men in certain industries, including: Finance and insurance, Agencies and consultancies, Health care, Transportation and warehousing, and Nonprofits.

Many studies:

New Report: Women Earn Less than Men in All Occupations, Even Ones Commonly Held by Women - IWPR

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE March 7, 2024 Contact: William Lutz 202-785-5100 Equal Pay Day 2024 Brings Yet More Evidence of Pay Inequities for Women in the Workforce, says the Institute for Women’s Policy Research (IWPR) Washington, D.C. — Women are paid eighty-four (84) cents for every dollar a man...

iwpr.org

Gender pay gap in U.S. hasn’t changed much in two decades

In 2022, women earned an average of 82% of what men earned, according to a new analysis of median hourly earnings of full- and part-time workers.

www.pewresearch.org

10 jobs with the largest gender pay gaps

Lensa ranked which industries had over a 35% difference in median weekly earnings between men and women.

www.benefitnews.com

Gender Pay Gap Statistics In 2024

The gender pay gap refers to the difference between the average earnings of men and women in the workforce. Despite attempts to narrow the gap, women in 2022 still earned 17% less than men on average, particularly for women as they age.[1] This report will delve into the latest statistics, uncover w

www.forbes.com

What You Need to Know About the Gender Wage Gap

What do you need to know about the gender wage gap and why is equal pay day important? The Women's Bureau shares five fast facts and resources on the issue.

blog.dol.gov

Women Continue to Struggle for Equal Pay and Representation

While women make up nearly half of the U.S. workforce, they continue to earn less than men and remain underrepresented in management roles. Today, in recognition of Equal Pay Day, we look at our new report on the gender pay gap and women’s representation in management.

www.gao.gov

Ok, time for this girl to get back to work... (I'm the only girl in my department.... but I'm also the highest paid. have to fight, have to be clever, it's possible girls

 

[Kenny]

No.
Not for the exact same job and the exact same hours.

Well, I should clarify.......
Not based on the gender anyway.

Plenty of people doing the exact same job and the exact same hours are paid differently.
But there's a whole lot of variables that come into this.

Like age, seniority within the company, qualification levels, prior experience,... And that's off course within the same company.
When comparing jobs in different companies, then you can add to that additional variables like general company culture or company budget. A multi-billion dollar multi-national is obviously going to have more budget for wages then a small regional company with a revenue of less then a million. Next to that, there's also the competition on the job market on the side of the companies themselves... If there are more jobs for not enough candidates, then those companies might start competing with one another by offering better wages or benefits or whatever, to try and attract those workers - basic supply and demand.

But purely based on gender? Not that I'm aware of.

I think you nailed it on the head.

Hard statistics don’t take into account all the variables.

There are areas that women make more than men...

The 34 jobs in the US where women typically make more money than men

The gender pay gap affects women across industries, but in these jobs, the median woman actually outearns her male counterpart.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[David Young]

From Google:

Women are paid less than men in many jobs, including:

• Financial managers: Women earn 71% of what men earn
  
  
• Retail salespersons: Women earn 72% of what men earn
  
  
• Education and childcare administrators: Women earn 79% of what men earn
  
  
• Administrative assistants: Women earn 80% of what men earn
  
  
• Managers: Women earn 81% of what men earn
  
  
• Personal financial advisors: Men earn 58% more than women
  
  
• Insurance sales agents: Men earn 55% more than women
  
  
• Sales managers: Men earn 47% more than women
  
  
• School bus drivers: Men earn 46% more than women.

Women are also paid less than men in certain industries, including: Finance and insurance, Agencies and consultancies, Health care, Transportation and warehousing, and Nonprofits.

Etc, etc.

Look at the original question.

I did not ask what lines of work women earn less than men in. I specifically asked about jobs where women earn less than men for doing exactly the same work.

The key word is 'exactly'.

 

[Nakosis]

This question concerns the world of employment in the USA, Canada, the UK, the EU, New Zealand and Australia. It is about employment in the open labour market and not the black economy. It is not about people who are self-employed.

Can you name a job where women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same work?

There's nothing preventing a woman working at a job with equal experience and equal capability from making the same as a man in their profession except the woman herself. If person, man or woman, a is willing to work for less, no employer is going to say no to that. If you are worth more than what you are being paid and can justify it, you got to ask for it.

Wage discrimination is illegal so where are all of the cases of these women who can prove wage discrimination?

Gender pay gap in U.S. hasn’t changed much in two decades

This is actually a pretty decent report as it also points to many of the mitigating factors other than gender discrimination involved.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think you nailed it on the head.

Hard statistics don’t take into account all the variables.

There are areas that women make more than men...

The 34 jobs in the US where women typically make more money than men

The gender pay gap affects women across industries, but in these jobs, the median woman actually outearns her male counterpart.

www.businessinsider.com

There's also some other aspect that is significant here, which I feel is rarely addressed in such discussions.

Yes, if we look at the large scale studies, it seems there is a statistical "pay gap". But the question is what is the cause of that.
The thing about such statistics, is that it deals with averages of wages. So we would have to look at what are the things that drag those averages down.

Here are a few things...
- women tend to negotiate less about salary then men. perhaps it's a psychology thing, I dunno, but that's just a trend that happens to be so
- even in these modern times, a significant portion of women will still take long breaks (like multiple years) from work to have / raise children. This means a drop in seniority / experience. So they need to start over and / or "fall behind" compared to people (man and women) who don't take such breaks. It also means a drop in promotion opportunities.

All those things together will make a significant statistical difference.

There are so much variables that determine those statistical difference, I feel like it is a big mistake to take such averages / statistics and then almost anecdotally apply them to any individual. As if any woman will automagically earn less then men merely for being a woman.


The truth is... if that were the case, then companies would avoid hiring men and fill their employee database with women while saving like 20% on salaries. The fact that this isn't happening at all, should tell us something.

If a company could save as much as 20% on salaries by hiring mostly women, you may be sure as hell that plenty would do exactly that.
I certainly would.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

This question concerns the world of employment in the USA, Canada, the UK, the EU, New Zealand and Australia. It is about employment in the open labour market and not the black economy. It is not about people who are self-employed.

Can you name a job where women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same work?

Statistics show that men earn more than women over a Lifetime, and by a considerable margin.
Reasons are found to pay men more, even if is only justified by giving them a different job title for the same job.

However women are appearing in more and more top job slots, than even ten years ago.
While they now often get the CEO job, it is extremely
rare for them to get the Chairman spot.
At the same time the lowest paid rungs in a company are usually exclusively staffed by women.

 

[Kathryn]

When I was a bank manager for a large bank, I made less than most of the male managers, if not all of them. They were eventually fired, but I just quit. I was making 11 cents more an hour than I was making when I was hourly.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Statistics show that men earn more than women over a Lifetime, and by a considerable margin.
Reasons are found to pay men more, even if is only justified by giving them a different job title for the same job.

I seriously doubt that. How were those supposed "reasons" determined?
I have worked a LOT of companies and have never ever witnessed the artificial creation of a job title merely to use it as an excuse to pay a man more then a woman.

However women are appearing in more and more top job slots, than even ten years ago.

While they now often get the CEO job, it is extremely
rare for them to get the Chairman spot.

Incidentally, less and less women are also taking years long breaks for having and raising children.
Which puts them on more equal footings in term of potential career paths with men, who never took such breaks.

I'ld also add to that that traditionally, culturally and sociologically... men are more natural leaders then women.
You can blame biology for that. Perhaps it is a relic of the past. Perhaps it doesn't make sense anymore in modern society.
I'll leave that in the middle. Personally I have no problem with women leaders anyway, if and when they qualify for the job and have the traits a leader requires.

But sure I would think that in general, people will be naturally more inclined to look towards / vote for men to be their leaders rather then women.
Ironically, that goes for women themselves also. Perhaps even especially for women.

Would be an interesting psychology study. It wouldn't surprise me at all that if given the choice, most women would prefer a man leading them rather then a woman.

At the same time the lowest paid rungs in a company are usually exclusively staffed by women.

Not sure if this is true.
But if it is, we would have to ask the obvious question: why?

Correlation doesn't imply causation.... There might very well be a reason for that which correlates with gender, but which isn't at all caused by it.

 

[Kathryn]

"Than," not "then."

 

[Quintessence]

The key word is 'exactly'.

You do realize that this means you will never, ever find what you are asking for, right? Nothing is ever exact with these things. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem with pay disparities.

 

[Revoltingest]

The BBC was found to be paying female news anchors much less than the men, but I couldn't care less about that particular situation because they're all being paid huge incomes.

In the media, there are value considerations other
than doing the same work. Ricardo Cortez &
Humphrey Bogart both played Same Spade in
the movie, The Maltese Falcon (different years).
Should they be paid the same?

 

[soulsurvivor]

This question concerns the world of employment in the USA, Canada, the UK, the EU, New Zealand and Australia. It is about employment in the open labour market and not the black economy. It is not about people who are self-employed.

Can you name a job where women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same work?

A Hiring Manager at a tech firm told me that he paid new female hires less than male ones because they easily accepted the lower pay and did not negotiate for more. He always had a maximum pay in mind for any job, but a female applicant usually never asked for that much most of the time (there were some exceptions). The male hires negotiated much better.

 

[crossfire]

<...>


The truth is... if that were the case, then companies would avoid hiring men and fill their employee database with women while saving like 20% on salaries. The fact that this isn't happening at all, should tell us something.

If a company could save as much as 20% on salaries by hiring mostly women, you may be sure as hell that plenty would do exactly that.
I certainly would.

And that is reflected in the lower unemployment rates for women than for men.

A-10. Unemployment rates by age, sex, and marital status, seasonally adjusted

www.bls.gov

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This question concerns the world of employment in the USA, Canada, the UK, the EU, New Zealand and Australia. It is about employment in the open labour market and not the black economy. It is not about people who are self-employed.

Can you name a job where women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same work?

No, that's illegal in the US.

 

[oldbadger]

In the media, there are value considerations other
than doing the same work. Ricardo Cortez &
Humphrey Bogart both played Same Spade in
the movie, The Maltese Falcon (different years).
Should they be paid the same?

Like I said in my post.....I couldn't care less about very well paid people moaning about their lot.

But considering your question further, I quite like watching ladies reporting the news ...much more than men! So I think that the BBC should reverse their payment policy! Yeah......... !!

 

[Viker]

This question concerns the world of employment in the USA, Canada, the UK, the EU, New Zealand and Australia. It is about employment in the open labour market and not the black economy. It is not about people who are self-employed.

Can you name a job where women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same work?

Gender wage gap persists in 2023: Women are paid roughly 22% less than men on average

 

[Revoltingest]

Like I said in my post.....I couldn't care less about very well paid people moaning about their lot.

But considering your question further, I quite like watching ladies reporting the news ...much more than men! So I think that the BBC should reverse their payment policy! Yeah......... !!

I didn't think it possible.
A Brit has learned from one of my posts!