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Pakistanis doesn't believe in God/Allah.?

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Okay, okay, fine. Jains are one; I'd agree they be clean. Other Dharmic religions are not so clean as the Jains.

Certainly Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs... and even Zoroastrians! have a little blood on the ol' heritage.

But none of the violence is authorized by the religion though ;). This is the key factor. People have done things in the name of religion and god but not all of these religions permitted their followers to do so.
 

Assad91

Shi'ah Ali
I am an INDIAN and proud to be one.
Enough of all these terrorist attacks happening over here.
We all know that maximum or all the terrorist are muslim and are from Pakistan.
ok let us jump to the topic title.
They say that they kill enemies or people because their God/Allah said that to do it.
God would never want any person to get killed.
So the conclusion is they don't believe in god or they have a wrong misconception that allah is god.
Tell the bolded to the Muslim victims in Pakistan and elsewhere
 

dust1n

Zindīq
But none of the violence is authorized by the religion though ;). This is the key factor. People have done things in the name of religion and god but not all of these religions permitted their followers to do so.

What do you mean "authorized by the religion"? By book? Either way, that doesn't change what I was responding to.

"All of the religions of Abraham have murdered people for believing differently."

Now... a "religion" has never murdered anyone. So, I was assuming what was meant is "All of the religions of Abraham's followers have murdered people for believing differently."

Which in whatever case, the religion itself does not need to condemn, allow, permit, encourage, or degrade murder. The follower just simply murders regardless... murders someone for believing differently.

"I'm pretty sure that applies to the majority of all religions."

This was my response.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
What do you mean "authorized by the religion"? By book? Either way, that doesn't change what I was responding to.

"All of the religions of Abraham have murdered people for believing differently."

Now... a "religion" has never murdered anyone. So, I was assuming what was meant is "All of the religions of Abraham's followers have murdered people for believing differently."

Which in whatever case, the religion itself does not need to condemn, allow, permit, encourage, or degrade murder. The follower just simply murders regardless... murders someone for believing differently.

"I'm pretty sure that applies to the majority of all religions."

This was my response.

Actually both the OT and the Qur'an specifically say you can murder people the are of other religions, or that leave their religions. And of course history shows us that Christians followed these Biblical directions.

*
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
That's pity and that's why I'm calling everybody to stop believing in the Abrahamic religions. The only reason for wars isn't about east and west, it's about Islam that's what happened exactly in Iran in 2003 when united sates entered to Iraq, basically George Bush succeed but fanatical Christians and they did support him to declare the war on Iraq so they can send missionaries all over the country with unlimited freedom to convert Iraqis. By the years we all saw the tragic mistakes. Children, women, men, innocent people all were victims in the name of God.

And then they cry foul when they are arrested for proselytizing in these countries that have laws against proselytizing! :rolleyes:
 

Camatose

Member
Actually both the OT and the Qur'an specifically say you can murder people the are of other religions, or that leave their religions. And of course history shows us that Christians followed these Biblical directions.

*
Exactly, there's no forgiveness in Islam. Islam teaches it's people to murder and to be a radical suicidal in the name of Allah, therefore if you want a proof about that case, you can see Saudi Arabia there's no churches and maybe you can't even bring the bible or any book of any religion with you if you want to travel to their country. And remember censorship plays it's role in their country as well, so even if you want to read about religions you won't find books in their libraries except about Islam, because of this Saudis are retarded. When they travel outside their homland for the first time they see the world is very different place more peaceful and religion is not a sword on their necks, then they say ahaaa ! Islam is not a peaceful religion, not at all. If Islam ruled the world in the modern centuries without hesitation it would the last breath of this world. Top fanatical Muslims majority is Wahhabism, I hate their way in thinking, I also, don't believe they carry any humanity in their hearts.. without doubt I remembered once a Christian theologian asked a professor in Islam he said what if your daughter converted to Christianity would you kill her ? he said Yes, I wouldn't kill her by myself, but I would send her to the authorities for the execution. If they kill their children what stops them from killing me or you or anyone else. Did you see how dangerous religion is ?
 

Assad91

Shi'ah Ali
Top fanatical Muslims majority is Wahhabism,

No its not.


And there is forgiveness in Islam, even in rules of war. I wonder how much you have studied the topic. Judging from some of your post, you are not that ignorant. I'm sure you skimed the topic, but you should hit the topic again, you seem rusty.
 

Camatose

Member
No its not.


And there is forgiveness in Islam, even in rules of war. I wonder how much you have studied the topic. Judging from some of your post, you are not that ignorant. I'm sure you skimed the topic, but you should hit the topic again, you seem rusty.

I read everything accurately.

you seem rusty
What makes me rusty ? isn't your rusty beliefs!
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Actually both the OT and the Qur'an specifically say you can murder people the are of other religions, or that leave their religions. And of course history shows us that Christians followed these Biblical directions.
Actually, the Qur'an does not permit murdering people of other religions or that leave their respective religions. The Qur'an is clear on the case of killing people.

For this reason, We decreed for the children of Isra’il that whoever kills a person not in retaliation for a person killed, nor (as a punishment) for spreading disorder on the earth, is as if he has killed the whole of humankind, and whoever saves the life of a person is as if he has saved the life of the whole of humankind. Certainly, Our messengers have come to them with clear signs. Then, after all that, many of them are there to commit excesses on the earth.

مِنۡ أَجۡلِ ذَٲلِكَ ڪَتَبۡنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِىٓ إِسۡرَٲٓءِيلَ أَنَّهُ ۥ مَن قَتَلَ نَفۡسَۢا بِغَيۡرِ نَفۡسٍ أَوۡ فَسَادٍ۬ فِى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ فَڪَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِيعً۬ا وَمَنۡ أَحۡيَاهَا فَڪَأَنَّمَآ أَحۡيَا ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِيعً۬ا*ۚ وَلَقَدۡ جَآءَتۡهُمۡ رُسُلُنَا بِٱلۡبَيِّنَـٰتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرً۬ا مِّنۡهُم بَعۡدَ ذَٲلِكَ فِى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ لَمُسۡرِفُونَ

- Qur'an Chapter 5 (al-Maeda), verse 32​

Killing people simply for being another religion is not permitted.

For you is your faith, and for me, my faith.
لَكُمۡ دِينُكُمۡ وَلِىَ دِينِ

- Qur'an, Chapter 109 (al-Kafirun), verse 6​

There is a big debate as to whether or not someone should be killed who leaves Islam, or whether it is only under exceptional circumstances (such as the person then attacking Muslims). The oft-cited verse on fighting "the disbelievers" is a verse which is applicable only in times of war, the Qur'an is clear on not starting stuff; only finishing it. I don't see a problem with fighting back.

Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. (190) And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (191) But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (192) And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. (193)

وَقَـٰتِلُواْ فِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّذِينَ يُقَـٰتِلُونَكُمۡ وَلَا تَعۡتَدُوٓاْ*ۚإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُعۡتَدِينَ (١٩٠) وَقۡتُلُوهُمۡ حَيۡثُ ثَقِفۡتُمُوهُمۡ وَأَخۡرِجُوهُم مِّنۡ حَيۡثُ أَخۡرَجُوكُمۡ*ۚ وَٱلۡفِتۡنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ ٱلۡقَتۡلِ*ۚ وَلَا تُقَـٰتِلُوهُمۡ عِندَ ٱلۡمَسۡجِدِ ٱلۡحَرَامِ حَتَّىٰ يُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِيهِ*ۖ فَإِن قَـٰتَلُوكُمۡ فَٱقۡتُلُوهُمۡ*ۗ كَذَٲلِكَ جَزَآءُ ٱلۡكَـٰفِرِينَ (١٩١) فَإِنِ ٱنتَہَوۡاْ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ۬ رَّحِيمٌ۬ (١٩٢) وقَـٰتِلُوهُمۡ حَتَّىٰ لَا تَكُونَ فِتۡنَةٌ۬ وَيَكُونَ ٱلدِّينُ لِلَّهِ*ۖ فَإِنِ ٱنتَہَوۡاْ فَلَا عُدۡوَٲنَ إِلَّا عَلَى ٱلظَّـٰلِمِينَ (١٩٣)

- Qur'an Chapter 2 (Al-Baqara), verses 190 - 193​

Muslims are also supposed to emulate the ways of Muhammad, who was humble and friendly; there is the story of him escorting a person out of town, and he (or she, I forget) slandered him the whole way, about how Muhammad the so-called-prophet was a troublemaker, etc. At the end of the journey, she thanked him and asked his name, he said he was Muhammad, and went on his way.
 

Camatose

Member
"They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter" (2:114).

"[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate" (2:126).

"Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers"(2:190–93).
:yes:
"God gives guidance to whom He will" (2:272).
"As for the unbelievers, neither their riches nor their children will in the least save them from God's judgment. They shall become fuel for the Fire" (3:10).
:shrug:
"Let not the unbelievers think that We prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them" (3:178).

"Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise" (4:55–56).

"But if they were sent back, they would return to that which they have been forbidden. They are liars all" (6:29).


"Deaf and dumb are those that deny Our revelations: they blunder about in darkness. God confounds whom He will, and guides to a straight path whom He pleases." (6:39)
"Such are those that are damned by their own sins. They shall drink scalding water and be sternly punished for their unbelief" (6:70).

"God has cursed them in their unbelief" (4:46).

:run::run::run::run::run:
 

Camatose

Member
all hatred verses from the Koran: taken from a website gathered together
"It is the same whether or not you forwarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith" (2:6).
"God will mock them and keep them long in sin, blundering blindly along" (2:15).
A fire "whose fuel is men and stones" awaits them (2:24).
They will be "rewarded with disgrace in this world and with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection" (2:85).
"God's curse be upon the infidels!" (2:89).
"They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits [them]" (2:90).
"God is the enemy of the unbelievers" (2:98).
"The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Christians and Jews], and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have been sent down to you from your Lord" (2:105).
"They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter" (2:114).
"Those to whom We [God] have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost" (2:122).
"[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate" (2:126).
"The East and the West are God's. He guides whom He will to a straight path" (2:142).
"Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them" (2:154).
"But the infidels who die unbelievers shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be reprieved" (2:162).
"They shall sigh with remorse, but shall never come out of the Fire" (2:168).
"The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing" (2:172).
"Theirs shall be a woeful punishment" (2:175).
"How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme schism" (2:176).
"Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers"(2:190–93).
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not" (2:216).
"They will not cease to fight against you until they force you to renounce your faith—if they are able. But whoever of you recants and dies an unbeliever, his works shall come to nothing in this world and in the world to come. Such men shall be the tenants of Hell, wherein they shall abide forever. Those that have embraced the Faith, and those that have fled their land and fought for the cause of God, may hope for God's mercy" (2:217–18).
"God does not guide the evil-doers" (2:258).
"God does not guide the unbelievers" (2:264).
"The evil-doers shall have none to help them" (2:270).
"God gives guidance to whom He will" (2:272).
"Those that deny God's revelations shall be sternly punished; God is mighty and capable of revenge" (3:5).
"As for the unbelievers, neither their riches nor their children will in the least save them from God's judgment. They shall become fuel for the Fire" (3:10).
"Say to the unbelievers: ‘You shall be overthrown and driven into Hell—an evil resting place!'" (3:12).
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam. . . . He that denies God's revelations should know that swift is God's reckoning" (3:19).
"Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful—he that does this has nothing to hope for from God—except in self-defense" (3:28).
"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their breasts conceal" (3:118).
"If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy.We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that God may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you (God does not love the evil-doers); and that God may test the faithful and annihilate the infidels" (3:140).
"Believers, if you yield to the infidels they will drag you back to unbelief and you will return headlong to perdition. . . .We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. . . . The Fire shall be their home" (3:149-51).
"Believers, do not follow the example of the infidels, who say of their brothers when they meet death abroad or in battle: ‘Had they stayed with us they would not have died, nor would they have been killed.' God will cause them to regret their words. . . . If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, God's forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches they amass" (3:156).
"Never think that those who were slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, and well provided for by their Lord; pleased with His gifts and rejoicing that those they left behind, who have not yet joined them, have nothing to fear or to regret; rejoicing in God's grace and bounty. God will not deny the faithful their reward" (3:169).
"Let not the unbelievers think that We prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them" (3:178).
"Those that suffered persecution for My sake and fought and were slain: I shall forgive them their sins and admit them to gardens watered by running streams, as a reward from God; God holds the richest recompense. Do not be deceived by the fortunes of the unbelievers in the land. Their prosperity is brief. Hell shall be their home, a dismal resting place" (3:195–96).
"God has cursed them in their unbelief" (4:46).
"God will not forgive those who serve other gods besides Him; but He will forgive whom He will for other sins. He that serves other gods besides God is guilty of a heinous sin. . . . Consider those to whom a portion of the Scriptures was given. They believe in idols and false gods and say of the infidels: ‘These are better guided than the believers'" (4:50–51).
"Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise" (4:55–56).
"Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made of your religion a jest and a pastime" (5:57).
"That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. We have stirred among them enmity and hatred, which will endure till the Day of Resurrection" (5:65).
"God does not guide the unbelievers" (5:67).
"That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. But do not grieve for the unbelievers" (5:69).
"You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment. . . .You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to them are those who say: ‘We are Christians'" (5:80–82).
"[T]hose that disbelieve and deny Our revelations shall become the inmates of Hell" (5:86).
"[T]hey deny the truth when it is declared to them: but they shall learn the consequences of their scorn" (6:5).
 
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