Panentheism vs. Pantheism

[challupa]

I am not sure I am in the right area, but I would like to hear what people think the differences are between these two are.

My understanding is that Panentheism is that god is everything that is and also something beyond. While Pantheism is God is the universe and is everything that exists, basically the sum total.

Does that mean that Panentheism personalizes god more than Pantheism? By that I mean is god an essence beyond being all there is? Thanks.

 

[Madhuri]

From what I can tell, panentheists are more likely to conceptualise a personal feature of God. I tend to see God as the Source and all manifestation expands from His being (so to speak!).

 

[challupa]

From what I can tell, panentheists are more likely to conceptualise a personal feature of God. I tend to see God as the Source and all manifestation expands from His being (so to speak!).

So you are a panentheist then? Do you believe that because God is everything there is that you are in a sense god experiencing itself?

 

[Madhuri]

So you are a panentheist then? Do you believe that because God is everything there is that you are in a sense god experiencing itself?

Yes, simply put. But it is important to remember that God is much greater than any individual. We can say that God becomes us but we cannot say that we are God. From my specific religious perspective, the individual (soul) in the material universe represents a part of God's marginal potency- this is the nature that pulls us between the spiritual and material, morals and selfish desires etc. It is only one very tiny aspect of the Whole, this material universe and yet it extends further than we can comprehend.

 

[Metempsychosis]

So you are a panentheist then?

Yes all Hindus are pananetheists ,

Do you believe that because God is everything there is that you are in a sense god experiencing itself?

Yes ,very much true.The creator-creation duality is caused by mind .This is in monistic school of Hinduism.

I am not sure I am in the right area, but I would like to hear what people think the differences are between these two are.

Yes,I am not that sure too.Many abrahamic people are panentheistic too.

My understanding is that Panentheism is that god is everything that is and also something beyond. While Pantheism is God is the universe and is everything that exists, basically the sum total.

yes thats correct IMHO.

Does that mean that Panentheism personalizes god more than Pantheism? By that I mean is god an essence beyond being all there is? Thanks.

By personalize ,u mean to say conceptualize god(or create form)?Than yes,though god cannot be conceptualized ,humans will certainly personalize god as long as their mind works.

 

[watsonrychi5]

Very interesting topic... I myself am a Pantheist. In my honest opinion, everything is made up of the "Divine". I have heard my beliefs explained simply as everything and everyone is made up of "Stardust". I truly enjoy the thought that there isn't a higher power watching over our every action... we control our own destiny. I find comfort in knowing that rocks, stop signs, the person driving 10 miles under the speed limit on the high way and a devout buddhist monk for example are all formed out of the same matter. Many people insist on asking me " If you do not believe that "GOD" is watching over you every action... then what makes you act in a humane and civilized manner?". I usually reply to such a question by saying something in the line of " I see the divine in you and the universe... and I do not need a reward from a all mighty judge, in order for me to act civilized". In saying all of this I conclude by saying when you begin to notice the good in everything around you instead of the Evil... it makes life a bit easier in my opinion.

 

[Willamena]

Does that mean that Panentheism personalizes god more than Pantheism? By that I mean is god an essence beyond being all there is? Thanks.

It certainly could mean that. To imagine god as an essence beyond being is to make it "it" and give it being.

 

[challupa]

Yes, simply put. But it is important to remember that God is much greater than any individual. We can say that God becomes us but we cannot say that we are God. From my specific religious perspective, the individual (soul) in the material universe represents a part of God's marginal potency- this is the nature that pulls us between the spiritual and material, morals and selfish desires etc. It is only one very tiny aspect of the Whole, this material universe and yet it extends further than we can comprehend.

Yes I would understand that to be true if god is all and more than all. That is why I wondered if there was a more personal god aspect to Panentheism. It seems there is. Of course I also think you are saying this personalization of god in no way resembles the Abrahamic idea of a personal god.

I don't know much about Hinduism but I am getting more and more interested in their beliefs. I think a concept that says we are individualizations of the all (god) connects us more deeply with a divine essence. Thanks for your answers.

 

[challupa]

Yes all Hindus are pananetheists ,


Yes ,very much true.The creator-creation duality is caused by mind .This is in monistic school of Hinduism.


Yes,I am not that sure too.Many abrahamic people are panentheistic too.

yes thats correct IMHO.



By personalize ,u mean to say conceptualize god(or create form)?Than yes,though god cannot be conceptualized ,humans will certainly personalize god as long as their mind works.

I was not aware that traditional abrahamic religions were panentheistic. Do you mean the Kabbalah or mystical christianity or sufi's when you say that. I can see how they may be classed that way.

Yes I am sure we will always try to conceptualize what god is. We like to try to make sense of things. I think it would be easier for a panthiest to decline from trying to conceptualize because there is not a personal god per se. It is more just that everything we see is divine I guess.

 

[challupa]

Very interesting topic... I myself am a Pantheist. In my honest opinion, everything is made up of the "Divine". I have heard my beliefs explained simply as everything and everyone is made up of "Stardust". I truly enjoy the thought that there isn't a higher power watching over our every action... we control our own destiny. I find comfort in knowing that rocks, stop signs, the person driving 10 miles under the speed limit on the high way and a devout buddhist monk for example are all formed out of the same matter. Many people insist on asking me " If you do not believe that "GOD" is watching over you every action... then what makes you act in a humane and civilized manner?". I usually reply to such a question by saying something in the line of " I see the divine in you and the universe... and I do not need a reward from a all mighty judge, in order for me to act civilized". In saying all of this I conclude by saying when you begin to notice the good in everything around you instead of the Evil... it makes life a bit easier in my opinion.

Yes, I tend to lean towards the pantheist view more than the panentheist because it doesn't have a god that is seperate from existence. However, I haven't quite decided what I think is my own belief on this yet. I struggle with an existence of god and am agnostic for this reason. I like your answer to people who ask how you can still act "civilized" and not believe in god. I get asked that often and always wonder why people seem to think they need a god in order to act in a loving and humane fashion.

By the way, welcome to RF!

 

[challupa]

It certainly could mean that. To imagine god as an essence beyond being is to make it "it" and give it being.

Are you saying that we create god and make it mean whatever we want it to mean?

 

[Willamena]

Are you saying that we create god and make it mean whatever we want it to mean?

I'm saying we create "essence beyond" when we imagine it, and it means precisely what we mean it to mean.

 

[challupa]

I'm saying we create "essence beyond" when we imagine it, and it means precisely what we mean it to mean.

And that's okay? Nothing matters except what meaning we give to it?

 

[watsonrychi5]

Thank you for the welcome. A book that I would highly suggest for any atheist/agnostic who is troubled by the question of how to act civilized would have to be... " Good without God". The book is written by an Atheist harvard professor. I am a UU, so I tend to get asked the "Tough" questions around God. I believe it is much more important to respect people and treat them with dignity and try and find "God" in everyone than it is to worship "God" and live life through there law.

 

[Willamena]

And that's okay? Nothing matters except what meaning we give to it?

Many more things matter. And that's okay.

 

[challupa]

Thank you for the welcome. A book that I would highly suggest for any atheist/agnostic who is troubled by the question of how to act civilized would have to be... " Good without God". The book is written by an Atheist harvard professor. I am a UU, so I tend to get asked the "Tough" questions around God. I believe it is much more important to respect people and treat them with dignity and try and find "God" in everyone than it is to worship "God" and live life through there law.

Yes, I have heard of that book. I hang out with lots of UU's and that was a suggested reading in a Humanist group I am also a part of. I must read it soon. It sounds good. I agree 100% with your belief in respecting people. I don't always live it, but I do think it is the best way to go.

 

[challupa]

Many more things matter. And that's okay.

Yes, many more things matter. And it's okay! I think everyone has a very unique idea of life even though it is similar to others ideas. Fortunately that's just fine!

 

[WayFarer]

I have been a panentheist for a long time. As a matter of fact, for years I tried to separate my panentheistic views as "theology" while I still sought "religion". Oh, the many paths we walk... Anyway a while back I ran across a "book" called God’s Debris. Some refer to it as being panenthestic in nature. I call it something of interest for anyone who likes ideas. Best of all the online download of book is (legitimately) free. Here is the link: Andrews McMeel Publishing: Humor, Cartoon, General Trade and Gift Books, Calendars, and Toys: Humor, Cartoon, General Trade and Gift Books, Calendars, and Toys - God's Debris now all you have to do is read it.
I thought it was a lot of fun and well worth the read with several things/ideas/points-of-view to think/talk/argue about.

 

[challupa]

I have been a panentheist for a long time. As a matter of fact, for years I tried to separate my panentheistic views as "theology" while I still sought "religion". Oh, the many paths we walk... Anyway a while back I ran across a "book" called God’s Debris. Some refer to it as being panenthestic in nature. I call it something of interest for anyone who likes ideas. Best of all the online download of book is (legitimately) free. Here is the link: Andrews McMeel Publishing: Humor, Cartoon, General Trade and Gift Books, Calendars, and Toys: Humor, Cartoon, General Trade and Gift Books, Calendars, and Toys - God's Debris now all you have to do is read it.
I thought it was a lot of fun and well worth the read with several things/ideas/points-of-view to think/talk/argue about.

Thanks I will definitely give it a look. I have become ever increasingly interested in panentheism and pantheism.

 

[Mr Cheese]

All is a tree.....pantheism

A tree is a part of a forest ...panentheism

....

both are of course wrong....

but we all need maps to navigate, sometimes