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Paradise, heaven and humanity - your view

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
Humans are complex things and as I was thinking of all the parts of me that make up what I perceive as myself, I realized that some of my 'better' attributes are viewed negatively by others. Eventually I wondered how that would work in any potential afterlife.

So, pick your afterlife - whether you ascribe to the notion of the three heavens in the bible, an earthly paradise or the pre-Christian Germanic notions of multiple realms for you to enter, some combination of 'heavens' or anything and everything in between - are you still you?

What makes you 'you'?

When the evil flame is returned to god's cleansing fire to be burnt away, are you still you, just 'better'? How so?

When your spirit flies apart with each aspect of the self going off to do whatever it does, do you somehow still exist as a singular conscious being?

If you exist in earthly paradise where there is no suffering or pain or general unpleasantness, does the part of you that can't relate to those who believe differently than you cease to exist? Are they simply not present? Is everyone else there a mirror image of you or are you a mirror image of them? Is the creature, deity or natural process that manages this existence a mirror of you or you of it? What if you disagree with it on a matter, simple or serious? If you prefer blue and it prefers green, does the part of you that prefers green cease to exist?

Will you, no matter where 'you' go, still be you?

What if others don't like 'you'? Would they still have that option? If they do not, would they still be themselves, however they view and define themselves? What if you don't like someone else? Are you the one who is changed or is it the other? Why?

What happens if you are not able to remain you and still exist in this afterlife? Do you cease to exist as you, or is the whole of you removed from the afterlife?

The Universe is like an enormous book.
We make it as we go.
But we often have contrary wishes, which is why it does not always appear to be what we want.
Most aTheists cease to exist after they die.
Our stream of awareness is a fixed line, but in order for us to enjoy being fully immersed in the moment,
we have long since realized that forgetting is necessary to being fully happy.

When we have wishes that are contrary, this makes choice a meaningful reality.
This means that we cannot always predict the future, which makes it all more interesting.

So the single answer to most of your questions is: Yes on all accounts.
Sometimes it works the one way, and sometimes the other way; and sometimes another way that
you wished for intensely in a lifetime many eons ago.
 

Vidarsdottir

Just some chick
It's My Birthday!
Heaven is a road, not a destination. Everyone goes to heaven, but no one every actually gets there. You have one chance to get as close as you can. But when you die you're done. If you travel to heaven you do it while you are living and breathing on this earth and the only measure of how close you came is in the hearts and minds of the people you've touched along the way.

That's quite lovely. :)
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The 'you' referred in the Op will have dissipated, lost to the sands of time. It's all over.
 

arthra

Baha'i
So, pick your afterlife - whether you ascribe to the notion of the three heavens in the bible, an earthly paradise or the pre-Christian Germanic notions of multiple realms for you to enter, some combination of 'heavens' or anything and everything in between - are you still you?

Thanks for an interesting thread. In my case "Heaven" is more a condition of our being near to God or nearer to God wherever we are in this life or the next..... and yes I'm still "me".
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
If I pass before my family, my spirit lives with my family as our family that passed lives in us. However one defines spirit is up to them. I've seen spirits; so, I feel I'll be on earth helping family both inwardly and outwardly.

I don't believe in heaven, paradise, and so forth.

I believe you can feel that way but I believe God will dispose of you as He wishes.

I don't believe you are likely to go to a place you don't believe in. I don't believe God is in the practice of sending people to Heaven automatically.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I believe you can feel that way but I believe God will dispose of you as He wishes.

I don't believe you are likely to go to a place you don't believe in. I don't believe God is in the practice of sending people to Heaven automatically.

My best friend and christian said to me once under her breath "I know I'm going to heaven 'but, I know where you're not going, well, god will judge...."

Different levels of insult... but since I don't get to offended just confused.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Is there, why is he not doing shows in Las Vegas then?

I believe you are referring to Jesus and not Elvis who also is not doing shows because he is dead.

I believe Jesus is not on this planet and wouldn't likely do a show even if he were. He tends to stick to His purposes.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
What evidence?
Show me some good evidence and I may stop being an atheist

I believe the Bible serves as evidence.

I don't believe you have any idea of what is good because you are an atheist. It clouds your thinking.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
My best friend and christian said to me once under her breath "I know I'm going to heaven 'but, I know where you're not going, well, god will judge...."

Different levels of insult... but since I don't get to offended just confused.

The friend was most likely in error but unless the person could speak for himself it would be difficult to tell.

I suppose the person thought he knew you well enough but I have my doubts.

I believe this is at least a partial truth. Certainly a person wouldn't get there without His permission.

I don't believe I know what you find confusing.

I believe it is just the facts ma'am. I suppose if a person is ugly one doesn't have to say so but a person can't change that. A person can change philosophies. I believe it isn't shameful to have the wrong information but it is shameful to not believe the right information.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
I believe the Bible serves as evidence.

I don't believe you have any idea of what is good because you are an atheist. It clouds your thinking.
Oh dear! A 2000-year old book, is that the best you have?
Please don't try to judge me you don't know me. My thinking is very clear. I certainly do know what's good, I've just been round to see my week old grand daughter, it doesn't get much better than that. My grandson is about to play Dr Seuss with me on my laptop.
My wife and I are out with friends tonight, it is pub quiz night.
These are all good things, I'm helping my aged mother tomorrow running her to her friend's house.

How dare you accuse me of cloudy thinking and not knowing what is good.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
I believe you are referring to Jesus and not Elvis who also is not doing shows because he is dead.

I believe Jesus is not on this planet and wouldn't likely do a show even if he were. He tends to stick to His purposes.
I'm very pleased for you, your faith is obviously very strong. But why do you think JC is alive but not Elvis?
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I find the eternal hope and wishfulness of people to be kind of touching. Ultimately, tragic and somewhat naively desperate - but, it's kind of inspiring to see all the different fantastical stories people make up to assuage their fear of not existing. It's kind of neat to see how almost everyone has a whole different story they've built over time about where they're going to go after "this life."
 
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