Paradise is the Messianic age, not Heaven

[wizanda]

Having just re-read the Quran, currently in shock that Muslims have completely ruined the concepts within it.

68:17 Indeed, We have tried them as We tried the companions of the garden, when they swore to cut its fruit in the [early] morning.

First off, the Garden/Paradise is referring to here, as being the Garden of Eden.... This is clearly not referring to Heaven.

11:108 And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off.

7:40 Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals.

57:21 Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.

These three Surahs show that Heaven, and Paradise exist as separate references within the Quran.

The word for Heaven is the same as in many languages a word meaning sky, and Heaven in one.

Paradise is the same concept as the Messianic age/Satya yuga... That there will be a new creation, and those who are deemed worthy shall inherit it.

So all these concepts of drinking in heaven, virgins, mansions, and all the other materialistic things ascribed to it, are talking about us returning to a new earth.

The Quran is supposed to be a reiteration of what was sent before it, so if any Muslims had bothered to study all the other messengers this should be obvious; yet instead it has become a mockery and a joke to many, due to ascribing earthly things to Heaven, which is a place beyond the dimensions without form, a place of pure consciousness.

 

[Limo]

Having just re-read the Quran, currently in shock that Muslims have completely ruined the concepts within it.

The concepts of Earth, a New Earth, Heaven, and Paradise are explained in Quran in a series of verses. To understand these you need to gather it all.
I'll comment quickly on your thoughts and then explain these expressions and connections between them in another comment

68:17 Indeed, We have tried them as We tried the companions of the garden, when they swore to cut its fruit in the [early] morning.

First off, the Garden/Paradise is referring to here, as being the Garden of Eden.... This is clearly not referring to Heaven.

This verse has nothing to do with Earth, Heaven, Paradise.
It's a story of 3 brothers who has a fruitful garden and one day they decided not to give the poor then Allah punished them by destroying the fruit garden, they felt guilty and sorry for not giving the poor.
Garden is a literal physical fruit garden

11:108 And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off.

This is translated wrongly. The correct translation here is "The Prardise".
One might wonder, How after the last day there is earth and heavens?
Allah told us that the known earth and Heavens are going to be replaces with another one that will be used to bring all people since Adam till last day all together on a different earth and Heavens
Allah said in Quran 14:48 " On the Day when the earth will be changed to another earth and so will be the heavens, and they (all creatures) will appear before Allah, the One, the Irresistible."

7:40 Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals.

Allah tells us here that whenever unbeliever dies his sole/spirit will not go to heave, it'll stay on earth as he's being punished in grave. So it's he gates of Heaven will not be opened for them (their spirit after death)
And they'll not enter Paradise after the Judge date

57:21 Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.

Here is another translation mistake. it should be "a Paradise whose width is...."
Paradise after judge date.

These three Surahs show that Heaven, and Paradise exist as separate references within the Quran.

The word for Heaven is the same as in many languages a word meaning sky, and Heaven in one.

Paradise is the same concept as the Messianic age/Satya yuga... That there will be a new creation, and those who are deemed worthy shall inherit it.

So all these concepts of drinking in heaven, virgins, mansions, and all the other materialistic things ascribed to it, are talking about us returning to a new earth.

The Quran is supposed to be a reiteration of what was sent before it, so if any Muslims had bothered to study all the other messengers this should be obvious; yet instead it has become a mockery and a joke to many, due to ascribing earthly things to Heaven, which is a place beyond the dimensions without form, a place of pure consciousness.

Paradise in Quran is not Messianic age in Bible at all. Paradise جنة أو الفردوسis a totally different creationز

أHowever, Prophet Mohamed told us in Hadeethes about the Messianic age on earth. After the battels lead by Al-Masseh himself near the last day. Only believers will be on earth. At that time people will live on earth in peace and prosperity for a period of time without crimes or conflict.

ٌQuran is not a reiteration of previous book. Quran is the master, comprehensive, complete, final book.
You know previous books were not out of changes of scribes and copiers.
Regards

 

[Limo]

Earth, Heavens, new (Earth and Haven), Paradise.
Earth and Heavens السموات و الأرض: are the current but in the Judge day there will be a different Earth and Heavens. The Judge earth is a big white sheet without mountain or any thing. The sun will be very close. All people will be there since Adam till last day.

Paradise الجنة أو الفردوس : is another world completely different from current earth and heavens and the other earth and heavens (Judge day). It's only for righteous and believers only. It's eternal life, no illness, no sleep, no prayer

Hell or Fire النار أو جهنم : It's another place for unbelievers. It's also eternal life.

The golden age : It's on the current earth. It's an era after global war lead by Al-Maseh. Only believers will survive. The earth will be in an excellent conditions, prosperity and peace. No conflict , no issues

 

[wizanda]

Paradise in Quran is not Messianic age in Bible at all.

That sounds like a misunderstanding of what the Messianic age is within the Bible; have you spent long studying the Bible or are you just listening to outside opinion on it?

It's an era after global war lead by Al-Maseh.

The Messianic age is the same as this more or less; there is going to be a huge Tribulation soon, then after God steps in, the planet is reformed, and then only the Godly shall remain.

Garden is a literal physical fruit garden

What was trying to show, is that the word for Garden/Paradise is actually here; it is the original earth like the Garden of Eden, and then after in the new earth it shall be the same as Eden.

This is translated wrongly. The correct translation here is "The Prardise".

It wasn't translated wrong, garden/paradise are confused in the whole of Islam; as its seems they've not studied the Biblical source these concepts came from.

Within Islam the word for Heaven has been confused, and put as being a garden/paradise; therefore, many Muslims think there are material objects in Heaven.

ٌQuran is not a reiteration of previous book. Quran is the master, comprehensive, complete, final book.

The Quran makes no sense on its own, without the previous revelations to understand the contexts of what is being discussed.

Someone who only follows the Quran on its own, and makes distinction among the many books isn't a Muslim in my opinion.

 

[Limo]

That sounds like a misunderstanding of what the Messianic age is within the Bible; have you spent long studying the Bible or are you just listening to outside opinion on it?

No, I really didn't read deeply. I've listened to well educated Unitarian.

The Messianic age is the same as this more or less; there is going to be a huge Tribulation soon, then after God steps in, the planet is reformed, and then only the Godly shall remain.

No, we don't have that belief at all.
It's the same land and nothing about God steps.
If you mean Christ by God steps, you know that we don't believe that Jesus is God.

What was trying to show, is that the word for Garden/Paradise is actually here; it is the original earth like the Garden of Eden, and then after in the new earth it shall be the same as Eden.

No this is not in Islam beleif.
There is no Garden in Islam, There is no Eden in Islam.
garden means physical human cultivated field of trees. Paradise is the place for believers only after Judge date.
No mix between both.

It wasn't translated wrong, garden/paradise are confused in the whole of Islam; as its seems they've not studied the Biblical source these concepts came from.
Within Islam the word for Heaven has been confused, and put as being a garden/paradise; therefore, many Muslims think there are material objects in Heaven.

No, confusion at all. Arabic verses are very clear. unfortunately the confusion is in different translations.
In Quran Allah told about garden حديقة, Heavens السموات, and Paradise جنة أو الفردوس

The Quran makes no sense on its own, without the previous revelations to understand the contexts of what is being discussed.

Someone who only follows the Quran on its own, and makes distinction among the many books isn't a Muslim in my opinion.

Absolutely no, Quran is independent. It tells us the history and issues of previous nations.
Quran is understood by all Muslims without referring to previous revelations at all. Only a few people who are interested in Torahs and Gospels are studding it for debate and comparison.
Nevertheless, Hadeethes explain Quran and Context. Also Prophet Mohamed explained a lot.

I as a Muslim should belief in all prophets and all revelations but not obligatory at all to study it's remains changed books.
Also, no doubt even among many non-Muslim scholars that the Bible was subject to changes especially the New Testimony. Even Jeremiah warns us all about the lying pen of scribes.
Regards

 

[wizanda]

It's the same land and nothing about God steps.

39:69 And the earth will shine with the light of its Lord, and the record [of deeds] will be placed, and the prophets and the witnesses will be brought, and it will be judged between them in truth, and they will not be wronged.

21:104 The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.

There is no Garden in Islam, There is no Eden in Islam.

Jannah - Wikipedia

No, confusion at all.

This is the whole point in the thread, Paradise and Garden in Islamic concepts has been perceived by many to be Heaven; when the words are separate places.

Absolutely no, Quran is independent.

4:150-151 Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between - Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

 

[Limo]

I'm really impressed with your deep reading and analysis.
You're missing the wholestic view. The complete picture one.
We Muslims whenever we study a subject we bring all verses together. I'll explain in next comments.

39:69 And the earth will shine with the light of its Lord, and the record [of deeds] will be placed, and the prophets and the witnesses will be brought, and it will be judged between them in truth, and they will not be wronged.

21:104 The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.

As you see from the second verse that the heavens will be "a scroll rolled up for books" also in another versesز
The main one is 14:48 "[It will be] on the Day the earth will be replaced by another earth, and the heavens [as well], and all creatures will come out before Allah , the One, the Prevailing."
It's clear here that on the Judge day there will be another earth and heavens.
Following verses also explains what is going to happen to current earth and heavens :
69:13 -16 "Then when the Trumpet will be blown with one blowing (the first one),
And the earth and the mountains are lifted and leveled with one blow -
Then on that Day shall the (Great) Event befall,
And the heaven will split [open], for that Day it is infirm."
Then 21:104 "The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it."

Then ""[It will be] on the Day the earth will be replaced by another earth, and the heavens [as well], and all creatures will come out before Allah , the One, the Prevailing."
Then the Judge day starts.
In summary :

• Current Land, mountains, seas will be destroyed, same will happen to current heaven
• A new different earth and heavens will be created for Judge day only
• Judge day will start for all humans since Adam
• After Judge people will either go to a totally different world Paradise or Hell

Jannah - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jannah
My comments :

• First "The Arabic word Jannah derives from the Hebrew word Gan, meaning "Garden", as in Garden of Eden."
  • It's a genuine Arabic word from "gnn" جنن means "covered"
• False translation of 13:24, 56:12 he used Gardens but it's Paradise
• In list of names of Paraise nothing about garden, or Garden

I don't see confusion even in the subject other than wrong translation of Paradise by Garden

This is the whole point in the thread, Paradise and Garden in Islamic concepts has been perceived by many to be Heaven; when the words are separate places.

May be the wrong translations and non-Arabic Muslims writings is the source of confusion.
Any Muslim studied Arabic shouldn't get confused.

4:150-151 Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between - Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Please note that this verse is talking about People of the Books. As some Jews are saying that may be Mohamed is a prophet but we're not obligated to follow him as we've our own prophets.

Also, We're not disbelieving in some books or some prophets. We beleive in them all Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ishaaq, Yaqoob, Yousof and his brothers, Loot, Mosa, Al-Maseh Isa Ibn Mariam. We beleive in all books Ibrahim, Mosa, Isa, and any book that didn't reach us.

No contradiction in belief when I say that Quran can be understood independently and It's the true untouched, unchanged, protected book.
No obligation in Islam for a Muslim to read other books especially if it's well known and accepted by everyone that they were subject to changes.
Regarsd

 

[SethZaddik]

Having just re-read the Quran, currently in shock that Muslims have completely ruined the concepts within it.

68:17 Indeed, We have tried them as We tried the companions of the garden, when they swore to cut its fruit in the [early] morning.

First off, the Garden/Paradise is referring to here, as being the Garden of Eden.... This is clearly not referring to Heaven.

11:108 And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off.

7:40 Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals.

57:21 Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.

These three Surahs show that Heaven, and Paradise exist as separate references within the Quran.

The word for Heaven is the same as in many languages a word meaning sky, and Heaven in one.

Paradise is the same concept as the Messianic age/Satya yuga... That there will be a new creation, and those who are deemed worthy shall inherit it.

So all these concepts of drinking in heaven, virgins, mansions, and all the other materialistic things ascribed to it, are talking about us returning to a new earth.

The Quran is supposed to be a reiteration of what was sent before it, so if any Muslims had bothered to study all the other messengers this should be obvious; yet instead it has become a mockery and a joke to many, due to ascribing earthly things to Heaven, which is a place beyond the dimensions without form, a place of pure consciousness.

If you want Paradise to be a Messianic age, fine, but Paradise IS Heaven in the Qur'an.

And WE know our literature (and some of us like myself yours) better than you. And the Messianic age is not absent from Islamic theology, return of Christ, etc.

Two ENTIRELY different concepts.

What is shocking is you think you understand after reading it once better than us who read it and Tafsir daily.

 

[SethZaddik]

I'm really impressed with your deep reading and analysis.
You're missing the wholestic view. The complete picture one.
We Muslims whenever we study a subject we bring all verses together. I'll explain in next comments.
My comments :

• First "The Arabic word Jannah derives from the Hebrew word Gan, meaning "Garden", as in Garden of Eden."
  • It's a genuine Arabic word from "gnn" جنن means "covered"
• False translation of 13:24, 56:12 he used Gardens but it's Paradise
• In list of names of Paraise nothing about garden, or Garden

I don't see confusion even in the subject other than wrong translation of Paradise by Garden

May be the wrong translations and non-Arabic Muslims writings is the source of confusion.
Any Muslim studied Arabic shouldn't get confused.


Please note that this verse is talking about People of the Books. As some Jews are saying that may be Mohamed is a prophet but we're not obligated to follow him as we've our own prophets.

Also, We're not disbelieving in some books or some prophets. We beleive in them all Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ishaaq, Yaqoob, Yousof and his brothers, Loot, Mosa, Al-Maseh Isa Ibn Mariam. We beleive in all books Ibrahim, Mosa, Isa, and any book that didn't reach us.

No contradiction in belief when I say that Quran can be understood independently and It's the true untouched, unchanged, protected book.
No obligation in Islam for a Muslim to read other books especially if it's well known and accepted by everyone that they were subject to changes.
Regarsd

Sounds like you are the one confused, or just on a mission to say absolutely anything about Islam that is not positive.

I know that I am not confused other than at what, exactly, is confusing you and why you even care?

Paradise is definitely Heaven, the afterlife, where you go when you die.

The Messianic age is not a guarantee for any generation but Paradise IS to ANY. Not just Muslims either.

 

[SethZaddik]

I'm really impressed with your deep reading and analysis.
You're missing the wholestic view. The complete picture one.
We Muslims whenever we study a subject we bring all verses together. I'll explain in next comments.
My comments :

• First "The Arabic word Jannah derives from the Hebrew word Gan, meaning "Garden", as in Garden of Eden."
  • It's a genuine Arabic word from "gnn" جنن means "covered"
• False translation of 13:24, 56:12 he used Gardens but it's Paradise
• In list of names of Paraise nothing about garden, or Garden

I don't see confusion even in the subject other than wrong translation of Paradise by Garden

May be the wrong translations and non-Arabic Muslims writings is the source of confusion.
Any Muslim studied Arabic shouldn't get confused.


Please note that this verse is talking about People of the Books. As some Jews are saying that may be Mohamed is a prophet but we're not obligated to follow him as we've our own prophets.

Also, We're not disbelieving in some books or some prophets. We beleive in them all Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ishaaq, Yaqoob, Yousof and his brothers, Loot, Mosa, Al-Maseh Isa Ibn Mariam. We beleive in all books Ibrahim, Mosa, Isa, and any book that didn't reach us.

No contradiction in belief when I say that Quran can be understood independently and It's the true untouched, unchanged, protected book.
No obligation in Islam for a Muslim to read other books especially if it's well known and accepted by everyone that they were subject to changes.
Regarsd

I like your style, friend. Salaam and Shalom!

For the record I have two sets of Zohar, Tishby and one with the Hasulam commentary, have read the Bible several times and do, almost every Apocryphal book under the sun and finally I am moving on to Sufi literature Ghazali, to be specific.

In my opinion Ghazali and Ihya ulum al-din do for Islam and Sufism what the Zohar does for the Hasids and others. It is the same style, Mohammed PBUH would be b. Yochai, May the Blessed One be pleased with him, and his companions the Rabbis that go around with him.

I've only read Beresheet A,B, and Noach but, BIG FAN!!!

Knowledge is actually, according to a Sunnah, more virtuous a pursuit than ritual or prayer, even if in China.

 

[SethZaddik]

I'm really impressed with your deep reading and analysis.
You're missing the wholestic view. The complete picture one.
We Muslims whenever we study a subject we bring all verses together. I'll explain in next comments.
My comments :

• First "The Arabic word Jannah derives from the Hebrew word Gan, meaning "Garden", as in Garden of Eden."
  • It's a genuine Arabic word from "gnn" جنن means "covered"
• False translation of 13:24, 56:12 he used Gardens but it's Paradise
• In list of names of Paraise nothing about garden, or Garden

I don't see confusion even in the subject other than wrong translation of Paradise by Garden

May be the wrong translations and non-Arabic Muslims writings is the source of confusion.
Any Muslim studied Arabic shouldn't get confused.


Please note that this verse is talking about People of the Books. As some Jews are saying that may be Mohamed is a prophet but we're not obligated to follow him as we've our own prophets.

Also, We're not disbelieving in some books or some prophets. We beleive in them all Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ishaaq, Yaqoob, Yousof and his brothers, Loot, Mosa, Al-Maseh Isa Ibn Mariam. We beleive in all books Ibrahim, Mosa, Isa, and any book that didn't reach us.

No contradiction in belief when I say that Quran can be understood independently and It's the true untouched, unchanged, protected book.
No obligation in Islam for a Muslim to read other books especially if it's well known and accepted by everyone that they were subject to changes.
Regarsd

Sorry I didn't read your whole message, I thought you were Jewish and a supporter of the notion that Mohammed PBUH is a Prophet, just not for Jews.

I'll add, though, I heard a Rabbi call the Qur'an, "The first Midrash."

Def. a compliment!

 

[SethZaddik]

39:69 And the earth will shine with the light of its Lord, and the record [of deeds] will be placed, and the prophets and the witnesses will be brought, and it will be judged between them in truth, and they will not be wronged.

21:104 The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.

Jannah - Wikipedia

This is the whole point in the thread, Paradise and Garden in Islamic concepts has been perceived by many to be Heaven; when the words are separate places.

4:150-151 Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between - Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

As for the sentiment there is no Eden in Islam, your words, WTF?


Adam and Eve are in the Qur'an in the Garden of EDEN. Even if Eden is not used the story matches, up to a point enough to conclude Eden was the location of the sin of Adam and Eve.



How'd you miss that? The difference is that the blame is shared, not just on Eve. Not the location.

 

[SethZaddik]

I'm really impressed with your deep reading and analysis.
You're missing the wholestic view. The complete picture one.
We Muslims whenever we study a subject we bring all verses together. I'll explain in next comments.
My comments :

• First "The Arabic word Jannah derives from the Hebrew word Gan, meaning "Garden", as in Garden of Eden."
  • It's a genuine Arabic word from "gnn" جنن means "covered"
• False translation of 13:24, 56:12 he used Gardens but it's Paradise
• In list of names of Paraise nothing about garden, or Garden

I don't see confusion even in the subject other than wrong translation of Paradise by Garden

May be the wrong translations and non-Arabic Muslims writings is the source of confusion.
Any Muslim studied Arabic shouldn't get confused.


Please note that this verse is talking about People of the Books. As some Jews are saying that may be Mohamed is a prophet but we're not obligated to follow him as we've our own prophets.

Also, We're not disbelieving in some books or some prophets. We beleive in them all Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Ishaaq, Yaqoob, Yousof and his brothers, Loot, Mosa, Al-Maseh Isa Ibn Mariam. We beleive in all books Ibrahim, Mosa, Isa, and any book that didn't reach us.

No contradiction in belief when I say that Quran can be understood independently and It's the true untouched, unchanged, protected book.
No obligation in Islam for a Muslim to read other books especially if it's well known and accepted by everyone that they were subject to changes.
Regarsd

If no Eden, where did Adam and Eve get duped? The story is Biblical so it doesn't need to say Eden because it is such a known tale everyone knows anyway, I have never heard anyone say Eden doesn't exist in Islam, that is news to me.

 

[SethZaddik]

That sounds like a misunderstanding of what the Messianic age is within the Bible; have you spent long studying the Bible or are you just listening to outside opinion on it?

The Messianic age is the same as this more or less; there is going to be a huge Tribulation soon, then after God steps in, the planet is reformed, and then only the Godly shall remain.

What was trying to show, is that the word for Garden/Paradise is actually here; it is the original earth like the Garden of Eden, and then after in the new earth it shall be the same as Eden.

It wasn't translated wrong, garden/paradise are confused in the whole of Islam; as its seems they've not studied the Biblical source these concepts came from.

Within Islam the word for Heaven has been confused, and put as being a garden/paradise; therefore, many Muslims think there are material objects in Heaven.

The Quran makes no sense on its own, without the previous revelations to understand the contexts of what is being discussed.

Someone who only follows the Quran on its own, and makes distinction among the many books isn't a Muslim in my opinion.

Yes, but of what importance is, and to who among Muslims is your opinion worthy of consideration?

And to use your logic, if you don't accept the Qur'an you are not a Christian.

Otherwise, double standard.

 

[SethZaddik]

Earth, Heavens, new (Earth and Haven), Paradise.
Earth and Heavens السموات و الأرض: are the current but in the Judge day there will be a different Earth and Heavens. The Judge earth is a big white sheet without mountain or any thing. The sun will be very close. All people will be there since Adam till last day.

Paradise الجنة أو الفردوس : is another world completely different from current earth and heavens and the other earth and heavens (Judge day). It's only for righteous and believers only. It's eternal life, no illness, no sleep, no prayer

Hell or Fire النار أو جهنم : It's another place for unbelievers. It's also eternal life.

The golden age : It's on the current earth. It's an era after global war lead by Al-Maseh. Only believers will survive. The earth will be in an excellent conditions, prosperity and peace. No conflict , no issues

9:72 mentions the garden, not by name but exegesis/Tafsir

 

[SethZaddik]

Having just re-read the Quran, currently in shock that Muslims have completely ruined the concepts within it.

68:17 Indeed, We have tried them as We tried the companions of the garden, when they swore to cut its fruit in the [early] morning.

First off, the Garden/Paradise is referring to here, as being the Garden of Eden.... This is clearly not referring to Heaven.

11:108 And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off.

7:40 Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals.

57:21 Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.

These three Surahs show that Heaven, and Paradise exist as separate references within the Quran.

The word for Heaven is the same as in many languages a word meaning sky, and Heaven in one.

Paradise is the same concept as the Messianic age/Satya yuga... That there will be a new creation, and those who are deemed worthy shall inherit it.

So all these concepts of drinking in heaven, virgins, mansions, and all the other materialistic things ascribed to it, are talking about us returning to a new earth.

The Quran is supposed to be a reiteration of what was sent before it, so if any Muslims had bothered to study all the other messengers this should be obvious; yet instead it has become a mockery and a joke to many, due to ascribing earthly things to Heaven, which is a place beyond the dimensions without form, a place of pure consciousness.

If I really cared enough about belittling your Bible I could do so and make about 30 threads worth of topics regarding contradictions, a false apostle, and a host of things you likely have no clue about.

I have just done it to death at ATS, so doing it here is just doing it again but let me just say.

1. I GUARANTEE I know the Bible better than you because

2. I STILL read it as a Muslim, and Apocrypha and the Zohar, have been for...Ever. It's WHY I decided Islam is the true religion of God.

BECAUSE I KNOW how badly corrupted it is, it is why YOU need to make (poor) attempts at insulting the Qur'an, Muslims.

 

[SethZaddik]

Having just re-read the Quran, currently in shock that Muslims have completely ruined the concepts within it.

68:17 Indeed, We have tried them as We tried the companions of the garden, when they swore to cut its fruit in the [early] morning.

First off, the Garden/Paradise is referring to here, as being the Garden of Eden.... This is clearly not referring to Heaven.

11:108 And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off.

7:40 Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals.

57:21 Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.

These three Surahs show that Heaven, and Paradise exist as separate references within the Quran.

The word for Heaven is the same as in many languages a word meaning sky, and Heaven in one.

Paradise is the same concept as the Messianic age/Satya yuga... That there will be a new creation, and those who are deemed worthy shall inherit it.

So all these concepts of drinking in heaven, virgins, mansions, and all the other materialistic things ascribed to it, are talking about us returning to a new earth.

The Quran is supposed to be a reiteration of what was sent before it, so if any Muslims had bothered to study all the other messengers this should be obvious; yet instead it has become a mockery and a joke to many, due to ascribing earthly things to Heaven, which is a place beyond the dimensions without form, a place of pure consciousness.

Let me give you some examples.

Paul, everyone's favorite self proclaimed false apostle, for the strangest and most unexplained reason, thinks the Law/Torah of Moses was "ordained by angels" which is impossible to substantiate and is directly contradicted IN THE TORAH ITSELF, which is clear God gave Moses PBUH the Law, IN PERSON.

Where are these alleged (non existent) "ordaining angels"? which makes up the crux of Paul's argument that the Law is "dead" and "a curse."

Jude atracks this fallacy head on, James attacks "Faith without works" as "dead" while using the same proof text about Abraham that Paul used, to rebuke Paul's interpretation.

Peter, the only Apostle to actually use his name is talking about false prophets in 2 Peter and goes on to say "brother"(read: NOT APOSTLE) Paul's epistles lead men to destruction through LAWLESSNES.

While many fundies rely on 2 Peter to "vouch" for Paul it is not a very astute observation as the whole epistle is a thinly veiled polemic.

The fact is 12 is the maximum number of Apostles, even according to Revelation which is written to the 7 Churches of Asia that, according to Paul, "This YOU KNOW ALL those who are in Asia have turned from me."

Yeah, your Bible has issues. It doesn't agree with ITSELF.

 

[SethZaddik]

39:69 And the earth will shine with the light of its Lord, and the record [of deeds] will be placed, and the prophets and the witnesses will be brought, and it will be judged between them in truth, and they will not be wronged.

21:104 The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.

Jannah - Wikipedia

This is the whole point in the thread, Paradise and Garden in Islamic concepts has been perceived by many to be Heaven; when the words are separate places.

4:150-151 Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between - Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

But by all means, read a book for the purpose of discussing it in a negative fashion because your chosen book is beyond corrupted, doesn't even have a coherent theology, and besides the Word and words of the Word himself PBUH, the writings of real Apostles, ie, NOT Paul, it is junk and you know it. You need to lower the status of other religions in your mind to redeem yours and it didn't even work!!!!

You don't even understand the Qur'an!! It's not that complicated but does take knowledge, knowledge you are not in possession of, to comprehend the meaning as it is very Spiritual.

 

[wizanda]

If I really cared enough about belittling your Bible

It isn't my Bible...I study all religions.

just on a mission to say absolutely anything about Islam that is not positive.

That is rubbish, the last thread was about correcting understanding, to point to true Islam in the Quran, and not this corrupted fake separatist religion people have made up.

What is shocking is you think you understand after reading it once

Having read many of the religions globally, can show what is going to happen...

Within countless NDEs, and explanations of Heaven, the descriptions assigned to Heaven by Muslims are referring to the Messianic age...

Heaven has no form, and thus many of the conclusions made by Muslims defile what the Quran has put.

So when the Quran is a reiteration of what has been sent before it, you can say it is wrong, and it doesn't fit with all the other messengers or recognize the mistake that has been made.

No need to shoot the messenger for trying to help.

P.s.

Agreed Paul is a fake apostle, Simon was called a stone (petros) as he would mislead everyone, and the Gospel of John is made up....Yet this isn't what the thread is about.

 

[Limo]

The problem arises from the translation of Arabic text. I myself used to be mix between Heaven and Paradise.
In general, I'm against translation of names. When a name is used in Christian world by religion or culture, the person recalls whatever in his mind/belief/knowledge which in some cases is totally different from Islamic definition.
Also, some Muslims unfortunately tries to bridge the gaps between Islam from one side and Judaism and Christianity from the other side. Then they fall in severe mistakes.

For example Allah shouldn't be translated by any mean to God.

Let us define the garden, Heaven, Paradise, and Messianic era in short:

• garden حديقة :
  • It's any field planted with fruits
  • It's physically exist in life
• Heaven/sky السماء plural السموات:
  • There are 7 heavens
  • Stars, planets,,, are in the first Heaven/sky. All seen universe is in the first heaven/sky
    
  • Rest of heavens are full of angels
  • It's false to translate to Paradise
• Messianic era الخلافة الكبرى
  • Al-Masseh will come to earth again from Heaven/Sky
  • He'll lead believers in big wars to fight the False-Masseh, Gog-Mogog,,,,
  • There will be believers only on earth, others will die
  • The earth will give it's best
  • It's not eternal
    
  • The prosperity and wealth will be on whole earth for many years
  • After sometime, people will turn to Pagan again
  • Allah will end the life on earth, all people will die
    
  • Judge date will happen
  • Allah will create another big flat earth for Judge
  • Allah will call all dead people and genies since Adam
    
  • The sun will be very near from heads
• Paradise جنة plural جنات
  • Adam and Hawaa were there before they ate from the forbidden tree
  • Life there is eternal, none will die, no worshiping
    
  • Good people only who believe in Oneness and followed the true prophet of their era
  • It's not in universe
  • It's false to translate it to Garden

Regards