Paradoxes of Christianity

[Amhairghine]

There are major Paradoxes of Christianity.

1. A supposedly good God kills millions of people and trillions of non-human animals. However, the bad God, Satan does not kill anybody according to the Bible.

2. A man (Adam) offends God. Therefore, God gets even by having them kill God’s only begotten son. Duh?

3. Adam and Eve apparently do not know good from evil. Only if they eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil will they know evil. God commands them to not eat that fruit. However, since they do not know good from evil they eat the fruit, as God knows they will, in his sting operation. Then God punishes them for committing a sin that they did not know was a sin.

4. Eve is counselled by a talking Serpent who walks in the Garden. After the fruit eating skit, God punishes the talking serpent by removing his vocal cords (he cannot talk again) and removes his legs so the serpent must crawl…like a serpent. That is plain stupid.

5. God is supposedly smart (questionable at times) and fair. He accepts Abel’s blood sacrifice but ignores Cain’s bloodless vegetation sacrifice. God does this, omnisciently knowing that it will provoke Cain into killing Abel in jealousy. God is aiding and abetting murder, if no setting a trap to cause it.

6. God is supposedly good, but he prefers a blood sacrifice to a farm produce sacrifice in the Cain and Abel fable. God also commands Abraham to perform a bloody sacrifice of Abraham’s own son. God even plans for his own human-god hybrid son, Jesus to die in a bloody death. If God is good, why the lust for blood.

7. God knows astronomy if he is omniscient. So why did he make up the idiotic story that he created light before he created the Sun, and the Earth before he created the Sun. We know stars form first before the planets have been fully aggregated. Solar gravity is a necessary ingredient to planetary orbits and the sweep up of debris to form planets. So God did not know poop about astronomy and astrophysics.

8. There is the familiar suffering, mercy, evil paradox. God is omnipotent. He can do anything, or so they say. God sees the horrible suffering of non-human animals tearing each other apart, the birth of deformed babies, the development of brain tumours in children, Tay Sach’s disease, Werdnig-Hoffman, Progyria, lymphoma, horribly painful diseases in adult humans, insanity, mental retardation, brain disorders such as epilepsy, autism, agnosias, mutism, etc. etc. Yet God does nothing.

A. Either God does not care. He has no feelings, no mercy.
B. Or God cares but lacks the power to help. Thus, he is not God.

9. God sends almost all humans to a burning Hell as punishment. What merits the Punishment? In addition, is not punishment intended to make us avoid the bad thing again? Eternal burning Hell prevents us from even having a choice in good or bad behaviour.

10. According to fundamentalist Protestants, the only real sin is not believing in God in the exact correct way. One is free to commit horrors but saved if he believes in Jesus Christ. Hitler could kill 6 million Jews but be in heaven if he accepted Jesus in the final moments. That is as ethically paradoxical as one gets.

11. In Exodus, God commands Moses to ask Pharaoh to release the Jews. However, God first “hardens” Pharaoh’s heart to make him refuse to release the Jews. I guess God needed an excuse to send each of the plagues. Moses tries repeatedly, and each time God hardens Pharaoh’s heart leading to more suffering of the Jews, more people to die and suffer in another cruel plague. Is all of this simply an excuse for God to “show off” his cruelty and evil side to frighten people?

12. God is the god of love, so why did the three major religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) founded on his image, led to the vast majority of deaths in major wars, horrid persecutions, bigotry, injustice, and oppressive governments. Even today, the major conflicts involve followers of the Trinity God against followers of Allah or JHWY. These three very different concepts of god are considered the same monotheistic God even though Trinity is definitely not MONOTHEISTIC. Calling a trinity monotheistic is a word spin.

Disclaimer: I am not asserting that individual Christians are bad people. They are mostly good people.

Amhairghine

 

[Kurt31416]

"God knows astronomy if he is omniscient. So why did he make up the idiotic story that he created light before he created the Sun"

Well, I don't speak for God, but there was light before the sun. The first light, the "let there be light" light, was 300,000 years after the Big Bang. The faded glow of it is the microwave background radiation that proved the Big Bang theory and Genesis right. Granted Genesis got it right first by 3000 years.

 

[Kurt31416]

"God is the god of love, so why did the three major religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) founded on his image, led to the vast majority of deaths in major wars"

False, more people were killed in WWII than all previous wars in history, religious or not.

 

[Heneni]

There are major Paradoxes of Christianity.

1. A supposedly good God kills millions of people and trillions of non-human animals. However, the bad God, Satan does not kill anybody according to the Bible.

2. A man (Adam) offends God. Therefore, God gets even by having them kill God’s only begotten son. Duh?

3. Adam and Eve apparently do not know good from evil. Only if they eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil will they know evil. God commands them to not eat that fruit. However, since they do not know good from evil they eat the fruit, as God knows they will, in his sting operation. Then God punishes them for committing a sin that they did not know was a sin.

4. Eve is counselled by a talking Serpent who walks in the Garden. After the fruit eating skit, God punishes the talking serpent by removing his vocal cords (he cannot talk again) and removes his legs so the serpent must crawl…like a serpent. That is plain stupid.

5. God is supposedly smart (questionable at times) and fair. He accepts Abel’s blood sacrifice but ignores Cain’s bloodless vegetation sacrifice. God does this, omnisciently knowing that it will provoke Cain into killing Abel in jealousy. God is aiding and abetting murder, if no setting a trap to cause it.

6. God is supposedly good, but he prefers a blood sacrifice to a farm produce sacrifice in the Cain and Abel fable. God also commands Abraham to perform a bloody sacrifice of Abraham’s own son. God even plans for his own human-god hybrid son, Jesus to die in a bloody death. If God is good, why the lust for blood.

7. God knows astronomy if he is omniscient. So why did he make up the idiotic story that he created light before he created the Sun, and the Earth before he created the Sun. We know stars form first before the planets have been fully aggregated. Solar gravity is a necessary ingredient to planetary orbits and the sweep up of debris to form planets. So God did not know poop about astronomy and astrophysics.

8. There is the familiar suffering, mercy, evil paradox. God is omnipotent. He can do anything, or so they say. God sees the horrible suffering of non-human animals tearing each other apart, the birth of deformed babies, the development of brain tumours in children, Tay Sach’s disease, Werdnig-Hoffman, Progyria, lymphoma, horribly painful diseases in adult humans, insanity, mental retardation, brain disorders such as epilepsy, autism, agnosias, mutism, etc. etc. Yet God does nothing.

A. Either God does not care. He has no feelings, no mercy.
B. Or God cares but lacks the power to help. Thus, he is not God.

9. God sends almost all humans to a burning Hell as punishment. What merits the Punishment? In addition, is not punishment intended to make us avoid the bad thing again? Eternal burning Hell prevents us from even having a choice in good or bad behaviour.

10. According to fundamentalist Protestants, the only real sin is not believing in God in the exact correct way. One is free to commit horrors but saved if he believes in Jesus Christ. Hitler could kill 6 million Jews but be in heaven if he accepted Jesus in the final moments. That is as ethically paradoxical as one gets.

11. In Exodus, God commands Moses to ask Pharaoh to release the Jews. However, God first “hardens” Pharaoh’s heart to make him refuse to release the Jews. I guess God needed an excuse to send each of the plagues. Moses tries repeatedly, and each time God hardens Pharaoh’s heart leading to more suffering of the Jews, more people to die and suffer in another cruel plague. Is all of this simply an excuse for God to “show off” his cruelty and evil side to frighten people?

12. God is the god of love, so why did the three major religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) founded on his image, led to the vast majority of deaths in major wars, horrid persecutions, bigotry, injustice, and oppressive governments. Even today, the major conflicts involve followers of the Trinity God against followers of Allah or JHWY. These three very different concepts of god are considered the same monotheistic God even though Trinity is definitely not MONOTHEISTIC. Calling a trinity monotheistic is a word spin.

Disclaimer: I am not asserting that individual Christians are bad people. They are mostly good people.

Amhairghine

Its going to be REALLY hard for you to repent......

Thanks for the disclaimer, but unless you see god as good......i dont think you will ever feel sorry about anything ever.

 

[AK4]

There are major Paradoxes of Christianity.

1. A supposedly good God kills millions of people and trillions of non-human animals. However, the bad God, Satan does not kill anybody according to the Bible.

2. A man (Adam) offends God. Therefore, God gets even by having them kill God’s only begotten son. Duh?

3. Adam and Eve apparently do not know good from evil. Only if they eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil will they know evil. God commands them to not eat that fruit. However, since they do not know good from evil they eat the fruit, as God knows they will, in his sting operation. Then God punishes them for committing a sin that they did not know was a sin.

4. Eve is counselled by a talking Serpent who walks in the Garden. After the fruit eating skit, God punishes the talking serpent by removing his vocal cords (he cannot talk again) and removes his legs so the serpent must crawl…like a serpent. That is plain stupid.

5. God is supposedly smart (questionable at times) and fair. He accepts Abel’s blood sacrifice but ignores Cain’s bloodless vegetation sacrifice. God does this, omnisciently knowing that it will provoke Cain into killing Abel in jealousy. God is aiding and abetting murder, if no setting a trap to cause it.

6. God is supposedly good, but he prefers a blood sacrifice to a farm produce sacrifice in the Cain and Abel fable. God also commands Abraham to perform a bloody sacrifice of Abraham’s own son. God even plans for his own human-god hybrid son, Jesus to die in a bloody death. If God is good, why the lust for blood.

7. God knows astronomy if he is omniscient. So why did he make up the idiotic story that he created light before he created the Sun, and the Earth before he created the Sun. We know stars form first before the planets have been fully aggregated. Solar gravity is a necessary ingredient to planetary orbits and the sweep up of debris to form planets. So God did not know poop about astronomy and astrophysics.

8. There is the familiar suffering, mercy, evil paradox. God is omnipotent. He can do anything, or so they say. God sees the horrible suffering of non-human animals tearing each other apart, the birth of deformed babies, the development of brain tumours in children, Tay Sach’s disease, Werdnig-Hoffman, Progyria, lymphoma, horribly painful diseases in adult humans, insanity, mental retardation, brain disorders such as epilepsy, autism, agnosias, mutism, etc. etc. Yet God does nothing.

A. Either God does not care. He has no feelings, no mercy.
B. Or God cares but lacks the power to help. Thus, he is not God.

9. God sends almost all humans to a burning Hell as punishment. What merits the Punishment? In addition, is not punishment intended to make us avoid the bad thing again? Eternal burning Hell prevents us from even having a choice in good or bad behaviour.

10. According to fundamentalist Protestants, the only real sin is not believing in God in the exact correct way. One is free to commit horrors but saved if he believes in Jesus Christ. Hitler could kill 6 million Jews but be in heaven if he accepted Jesus in the final moments. That is as ethically paradoxical as one gets.

11. In Exodus, God commands Moses to ask Pharaoh to release the Jews. However, God first “hardens” Pharaoh’s heart to make him refuse to release the Jews. I guess God needed an excuse to send each of the plagues. Moses tries repeatedly, and each time God hardens Pharaoh’s heart leading to more suffering of the Jews, more people to die and suffer in another cruel plague. Is all of this simply an excuse for God to “show off” his cruelty and evil side to frighten people?

12. God is the god of love, so why did the three major religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) founded on his image, led to the vast majority of deaths in major wars, horrid persecutions, bigotry, injustice, and oppressive governments. Even today, the major conflicts involve followers of the Trinity God against followers of Allah or JHWY. These three very different concepts of god are considered the same monotheistic God even though Trinity is definitely not MONOTHEISTIC. Calling a trinity monotheistic is a word spin.

Disclaimer: I am not asserting that individual Christians are bad people. They are mostly good people.

Amhairghine

Oh believe me there are more and more paradoxes than these. I love number 12. :clap:yes:

The answer to all them though is this is all part of Gods plan, yet practically none of these religions know it. They just dont believe God or the scriptures like Isa 45:7. They purposesly avoid them to promote their doctrines

 

[Enoch07]

There are major Paradoxes of Christianity.

1. A supposedly good God kills millions of people and trillions of non-human animals. However, the bad God, Satan does not kill anybody according to the Bible.

1. God as the creator of all life has the right to destroy any life He sees fit, that is His right. Satan is an angel....the angel of death.....not a god in the least bit.

2. A man (Adam) offends God. Therefore, God gets even by having them kill God’s only begotten son. Duh?

Huh?

3. Adam and Eve apparently do not know good from evil. Only if they eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil will they know evil. God commands them to not eat that fruit. However, since they do not know good from evil they eat the fruit, as God knows they will, in his sting operation. Then God punishes them for committing a sin that they did not know was a sin.

3. Free Will. Even though God knew they would take of the forbidden fruit, He still had to give them the opportunity to not take of the fruit.

4. Eve is counselled by a talking Serpent who walks in the Garden. After the fruit eating skit, God punishes the talking serpent by removing his vocal cords (he cannot talk again) and removes his legs so the serpent must crawl…like a serpent. That is plain stupid.

4. Serpent is a metaphor for Satan. These punishments are metaphorical as well.

5. God is supposedly smart (questionable at times) and fair. He accepts Abel’s blood sacrifice but ignores Cain’s bloodless vegetation sacrifice. God does this, omnisciently knowing that it will provoke Cain into killing Abel in jealousy. God is aiding and abetting murder, if no setting a trap to cause it.

5. Same as answer number 3. Free Will. You cannot punish someone who has not yet committed a crime. God challenged Cain to prove him wrong, Cain failed pathetically.

6. God is supposedly good, but he prefers a blood sacrifice to a farm produce sacrifice in the Cain and Abel fable. God also commands Abraham to perform a bloody sacrifice of Abraham’s own son. God even plans for his own human-god hybrid son, Jesus to die in a bloody death. If God is good, why the lust for blood.

6. Huh? Blood sacrifices had nothing to do with the blood itself, life of a living creature was more valued than that of vegetation. God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son yes, but God also stopped Abraham from going through with it at the last second, so no blood sacrifice happened there. God specifically sent Jesus to come die for us, so that we can have salvation, He traded Jesus' life for the eternal life of millions.

7. God knows astronomy if he is omniscient. So why did he make up the idiotic story that he created light before he created the Sun, and the Earth before he created the Sun. We know stars form first before the planets have been fully aggregated. Solar gravity is a necessary ingredient to planetary orbits and the sweep up of debris to form planets. So God did not know poop about astronomy and astrophysics.

7. The "light" created before the sun is actually a metaphor for God's children. The angels, us (our souls that is), and Heaven (a place for the "light" to dwell).

8. There is the familiar suffering, mercy, evil paradox. God is omnipotent. He can do anything, or so they say. God sees the horrible suffering of non-human animals tearing each other apart, the birth of deformed babies, the development of brain tumours in children, Tay Sach’s disease, Werdnig-Hoffman, Progyria, lymphoma, horribly painful diseases in adult humans, insanity, mental retardation, brain disorders such as epilepsy, autism, agnosias, mutism, etc. etc. Yet God does nothing.

A. Either God does not care. He has no feelings, no mercy.
B. Or God cares but lacks the power to help. Thus, he is not God.

8. /wipe.. sorry had to get the tears out of my eyes.
How are we as humans able to be righteous and help our fellow man/animal if God did everything for us? Pain and misery is part of life, it is our job to alleviate it ourselves as much as possible.

9. God sends almost all humans to a burning Hell as punishment. What merits the Punishment? In addition, is not punishment intended to make us avoid the bad thing again? Eternal burning Hell prevents us from even having a choice in good or bad behaviour.

9. Being a evil person merits the punishment. Self discipline is a invaluable tool. You know the consequences of living a sinful, unrepentant life. Does that stop you from slipping up and sinning time to time. Nope.....everyone does almost on a daily basis, the question is are you humble enough to ask for forgiveness. If not you pay the price.

10. According to fundamentalist Protestants, the only real sin is not believing in God in the exact correct way. One is free to commit horrors but saved if he believes in Jesus Christ. Hitler could kill 6 million Jews but be in heaven if he accepted Jesus in the final moments. That is as ethically paradoxical as one gets.

10. Not true. You could kill 6 million and ask for forgiveness. That does not mean God will forgive you though. Ultimately it is up to God and only God if someone deserves to be forgiven or not. Though He will not forgive you unless you ask for it. See answer to number 9 about being humble.

11. In Exodus, God commands Moses to ask Pharaoh to release the Jews. However, God first “hardens” Pharaoh’s heart to make him refuse to release the Jews. I guess God needed an excuse to send each of the plagues. Moses tries repeatedly, and each time God hardens Pharaoh’s heart leading to more suffering of the Jews, more people to die and suffer in another cruel plague. Is all of this simply an excuse for God to “show off” his cruelty and evil side to frighten people?

11. Well the Pharaohs kinda had it coming. Considering they thought themselves to be gods. They needed to be taught a lesson.

12. God is the god of love, so why did the three major religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) founded on his image, led to the vast majority of deaths in major wars, horrid persecutions, bigotry, injustice, and oppressive governments. Even today, the major conflicts involve followers of the Trinity God against followers of Allah or JHWY. These three very different concepts of god are considered the same monotheistic God even though Trinity is definitely not MONOTHEISTIC. Calling a trinity monotheistic is a word spin.

12. Wars, persecutions, bigotry, injustice and oppressive governments are mans doing. Has nothing to do with religion. As for how Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all worship and interpret differently, that is also the doing of us as humans.

 

[Poisonshady313]

1. God as the creator of all life has the right to destroy any life He sees fit, that is His right. Satan is an angel....the angel of death.....not a god in the least bit.

Satan is an angel... but NOT "the angel of death".

3. Free Will. Even though God knew they would take of the forbidden fruit, He still had to give them the opportunity to not take of the fruit.

That's a bad answer. A good answer is, they weren't punished for eating the fruit, but for failing to take responsibility for their actions... which they should have known to do, having eaten the fruit.

5. Same as answer number 3. Free Will. You cannot punish someone who has not yet committed a crime. God challenged Cain to prove him wrong, Cain failed pathetically.

Another bad answer.

Cain's offering wasn't rejected because it was bloodless. It was rejected because it wasn't the finest produce. His offering was half heartedly given. And Cain killed his brother as a result of a conversation they had... a conversation nobody is given details about. In any event, God isn't guilty in this one.

 

[Enoch07]

Satan is an angel... but NOT "the angel of death".

Really you need to do some research then. Here is some examples from Wikipedia using Death (personification):

The angel of death, who is identified by some with Satan, immediately after his creation had a dispute with God as to the light of the Messiah (Pesiḳ. R. 161b). When Eve touched the tree of knowledge, she perceived the angel of death, and thought "Now I shall die, and God will create another wife for Adam".[9] Adam also had a conversation with the angel of death (Böklen, "Die Verwandtschaft der Jüdisch-Christlichen mit der Parsischen Eschatologie," p. 12). The angel of death sits before the face of the dead (Jellinek, l.c. ii. 94). While Abraham was mourning for Sarah the angel appeared to him, which explains why "Abraham stood up from before his dead".[10] Samael told Sarah that Abraham had sacrificed Isaac in spite of his wailing, and Sarah died of horror and grief.[11] It was Moses who most often had dealings with the angel. At the rebellion of Korah, Moses saw him (Num. R. v. 7; Bacher, l.c. iii. 333; compare Sanh. 82a). It was the angel of death in the form of pestilence which snatched away 15,000 every year during the wandering in the wilderness (ib. 70). When Moses reached heaven, the angel told him something (Jellinek, l.c. i. 61).

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews declares that Satan "holds the power of Death" (Heb. 2:14). It is written that the Son became human that by his death he might destroy the devil; this is the head of the Beast referred to as, "One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed" (Rev. 13:3) as well as the head of the serpent as preemptively referred to in Genesis 3:15 - "And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise Him on the heel". If the head that was fatally wounded but healed refers to Death, this accords with 2 Tim. 1:10, which states that Jesus "has destroyed death", and the implication that death was yet to be destroyed in 1 Cor. 15:26. The victory over death is also referred to as "Eternal Life"

That's a bad answer. A good answer is, they weren't punished for eating the fruit, but for failing to take responsibility for their actions... which they should have known to do, having eaten the fruit.

They were punished for eating the fruit, they had to leave Eden. They did take responsibility though not at first as they was scared because they disobeyed the Lord, yet God told them to partake of the Tree of Life to redeem themselves and they did.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Really you need to do some research then. Here is some examples from Wikipedia using Death (personification):

The angel of death, who is identified by some with Satan,

Identified by some. Some people identify Barack Obama with the Antichrist. Some people identify Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda with Jesus.

In scripture, Satan is not ever identified as the angel of death.

When Eve touched the tree of knowledge, she perceived the angel of death, and thought "Now I shall die, and God will create another wife for Adam".[9] Adam also had a conversation with the angel of death (Böklen, "Die Verwandtschaft der Jüdisch-Christlichen mit der Parsischen Eschatologie," p. 12). The angel of death sits before the face of the dead (Jellinek, l.c. ii. 94). While Abraham was mourning for Sarah the angel appeared to him, which explains why "Abraham stood up from before his dead".[10] Samael told Sarah that Abraham had sacrificed Isaac in spite of his wailing, and Sarah died of horror and grief.[11] It was Moses who most often had dealings with the angel. At the rebellion of Korah, Moses saw him (Num. R. v. 7; Bacher, l.c. iii. 333; compare Sanh. 82a). It was the angel of death in the form of pestilence which snatched away 15,000 every year during the wandering in the wilderness (ib. 70). When Moses reached heaven, the angel told him something (Jellinek, l.c. i. 61).

None of this has anything to do with Satan.

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews declares that Satan "holds the power of Death" (Heb. 2:14). It is written that the Son became human that by his death he might destroy the devil; this is the head of the Beast referred to as, "One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed" (Rev. 13:3) as well as the head of the serpent as preemptively referred to in Genesis 3:15 - "And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise Him on the heel". If the head that was fatally wounded but healed refers to Death, this accords with 2 Tim. 1:10, which states that Jesus "has destroyed death", and the implication that death was yet to be destroyed in 1 Cor. 15:26. The victory over death is also referred to as "Eternal Life"

As one who thoroughly rejects the "new testament", none of this is meaningful. at all.

Satan is not "the angel of death". Satan is a prosecutor. "the adversary".

They were punished for eating the fruit, they had to leave Eden.

Wrong. They were given a finite lifespan for having eaten the fruit, as God promised... but they left eden because they refused to take responsibility. Adam blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the serpent.

, yet God told them to partake of the Tree of Life to redeem themselves and they did.

Where the hell did you get this from? This sort of thing makes me wonder if you've ever read Genesis.

 

[Enoch07]

Where the hell did you get this from? This sort of thing makes me wonder if you've ever read Genesis.

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--

Obviously you are the one who has never read Genesis.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--

Obviously you are the one who has never read Genesis.

I'm sorry. I thought you were smart enough to know what the word "lest" means.

lest:
for fear that; so that one should not (used negatively to introduce a clause expressive of an action or occurrence requiring caution): He kept his notes by his side lest faulty memory lead him astray.


God banished them from Eden and set up Cherubim to guard the way to the tree of life, so that THEY SHOULD NOT EAT FROM IT.

 

[TheKnight]

Disclaimer: I am not asserting that individual Christians are bad people. They are mostly good people.

I was going to respond to your points. But then I realized that I'd rather not dignify your arguments.

They're not really paradoxes, they're complaints from someone who doesn't know or hasn't taken the time to learn about the various views of scriptures and answers to those questions.

The mere fact that you lump Christianity, Islam and Judaism together (which are three inherently different religions), demonstrates your lack of knowledge of either of the three.

I suggest that maybe you go to the proponents of these religions and ask your "paradoxes" in the form of questions.

 

[Enoch07]

I'm sorry. I thought you were smart enough to know what the word "lest" means.

lest:
for fear that; so that one should not (used negatively to introduce a clause expressive of an action or occurrence requiring caution): He kept his notes by his side lest faulty memory lead him astray.


God banished them from Eden and set up Cherubim to guard the way to the tree of life, so that THEY SHOULD NOT EAT FROM IT.

Lest they take from the tree of life they would perish (read Gen 2:17). Because eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil had condemned them to death. Eat of the tree of life to live forever. Goes without saying that the eternal life and death mentioned here has nothing to do with physical bodies. This is spiritual life and death that is being spoke of here. But believe what you want, apparently you do not believe our souls are eternal.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Genesis 2:17 says nothing about the tree of life.

It says:

but of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad, you must not eat thereof; for on the day you eat of it, you shall surely die.

Goes without saying that the eternal life and death mentioned here has nothing to do with physical bodies.

Wrong.

This is spiritual life and death that is being spoke of here.

Wrong.

But believe what you want, apparently you do not believe our souls are eternal.

Wrong.



Read Genesis 3. Please. Go in with a dictionary and a thesaurus... and understand what's happening. They eat from the tree, which gives them the knowledge of good and evil... which makes them a bit more like God... which is something God tried to prevent by telling them not to eat from the tree.... and now that they did, God wants to further prevent them from becoming even more like Him by both knowing good and evil AND living forever, so he sets up angels with fiery swords to protect the tree of life so that they should NOT eat from it.

 

[Enoch07]

Genesis 2:17 says nothing about the tree of life.

It says:

but of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad, you must not eat thereof; for on the day you eat of it, you shall surely die.

You are not paying attention. I never said Genesis 2:17 said anything about the tree of life. I was referring to the scripture you posted. So I ask you did Adam and Eve die from eating from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil? Ill answer for you, they did not. So either you are saying God is a liar or your interpretation of what is in Genesis is wrong.

Read Genesis 3. Please. Go in with a dictionary and a thesaurus... and understand what's happening. They eat from the tree, which gives them the knowledge of good and evil... which makes them a bit more like God... which is something God tried to prevent by telling them not to eat from the tree.... and now that they did, God wants to further prevent them from becoming even more like Him by both knowing good and evil AND living forever, so he sets up angels with fiery swords to protect the tree of life so that they should NOT eat from it.

So you are saying that God forbid humans from gaining access to the tree of life so they could not become physically immortal like God? But yet we are already spiritually immortal like God, so why would we want a immortal body which is weak and pales in comparison to our spiritual bodies? What you suggest makes no sense.

 

[Darkness]

1. God as the creator of all life has the right to destroy any life He sees fit, that is His right. Satan is an angel....the angel of death.....not a god in the least bit.

And people wonder why others believe Christian Fundamentalism to be a morally bankrupt philosophy.

So you are saying that God forbid humans from gaining access to the tree of life so they could not become physically immortal like God? But yet we are already spiritually immortal like God, so why would we want a immortal body which is weak and pales in comparison to our spiritual bodies? What you suggest makes no sense.

The Tanakh does not really support spiritual immortality.

 

[Enoch07]

And people wonder why others believe Christian Fundamentalism to be a morally bankrupt philosophy.

The Tanakh does not really support spiritual immortality.

Good thing this is Biblical Debate section and not Tanakh. Anything to support your claim? Or just random thoughts?

 

[Darkness]

Good thing this is Biblical Debate section and not Tanakh. Anything to support your claim? Or just random thoughts?

Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

And, I thought we were debating what is in the Tanakh? Genesis is in the Tanakh and not the Christian writings. Will you disagree with that? It is wrong to impose the words of the New Testament upon the Tanakh, since they are from two different religions. Just like I am sure you would not be too happy if I used the Urantia Book or the Book of Mormon to interperet the New Testament.

 

[Enoch07]

Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

And, I thought we were debating what is in the Tanakh? Genesis is in the Tanakh and not the Christian writings.

Genesis is in the Bible as well as the Tanakh. Though the interpretations of the followers are vastly different.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 is speaking of physical death. I also read Ecclesiastes 9:1-9:10 and it is just saying that regardless of who you are, we all die physically. But it also speaks of spiritual life and death in:

Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun; that one thing happens to all. Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

This scripture is speaking of sin. A soul full of sin will join the dead (spiritually dead in hell).

Ecclesiastes 9:4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

This scripture is speaking of repentance. With repentance you can live eternally (spiritually) with God, even though you were not perfect.

 

[Poisonshady313]

You are not paying attention. I never said Genesis 2:17 said anything about the tree of life. I was referring to the scripture you posted.

Then you may want to work on your communication skills. This is what you said:

Lest they take from the tree of life they would perish (read Gen 2:17).

So I ask you did Adam and Eve die from eating from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil? Ill answer for you, they did not. So either you are saying God is a liar or your interpretation of what is in Genesis is wrong.

Unless your interpretation of what is in Genesis is wrong. Eating from the tree is what caused them to be mortal.

So you are saying that God forbid humans from gaining access to the tree of life so they could not become physically immortal like God?

right.

But yet we are already spiritually immortal like God, so why would we want a immortal body which is weak and pales in comparison to our spiritual bodies? What you suggest makes no sense.

You figure Adam and Eve knew that much about their spiritual bodies?

You might as well ask "Why would God create beings with immortal spirits and temporary bodies?"

God is omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal. Why would He bother to create people at all?


God created a separation between divine beings (i.e. angels) and human beings... He created them with free will, without the knowledge of good and evil, and with an infinite lifespan.

When they ate from the tree and attained the knowledge of good and evil, their infinite life span was taken away from them... because God never intended for humans to have both. (You'll notice that originally, they were only prohibited from the tree of knowledge.)