Part 2, an attack on creationism

[Booko]

The Last Revelation is the holy Qur'an.

That is a matter of opinion.

 

[~Amin~]

That is a matter of opinion.

No its been Proven

 

[UnTheist]

No its been Proven

LOL .

 

[Autodidact]

No its been Proven

Oooh, really. Cool. Can you share the proof?

 

[~Amin~]

Oooh, really. Cool. Can you share the proof?

First before we get to this point, i would like to if you dont mind,
ask you a few questions,
did you know that the earth is the third planet from
the sun if we were one planet closer or further away we would either burn
or freeze?
did you know that trees release oxygen and we breath it?
did you know the clouds suspended inbetween the sky and the
earth is at man's service?
did you know that the lightning releases nitrogen and the trees
inhale that?
did you know that there are deadly gases out side the earth and we are protected
by the ozone layer?
All these are causes through which God the Most Great Provides, protects,
nutures, and sustain human beings.
Could you please share your thoughts?

 

[painted wolf]

First before we get to this point, i would like to if you dont mind,
ask you a few questions,
did you know that the earth is the third planet from
the sun if we were one planet closer or further away we would either burn
or freeze?
Not true, many life forms are quite capable of living in conditions far worse than those that would kill us. Life would not be bothered all that much by having the Earth further or closer to the sun.

did you know that trees release oxygen and we breath it?
Not all of it. Oxygen was around before trees were, plants just happen to be the most conspicuous producers of it. Single celled organisms like Algae and others make far more O2.
did you know the clouds suspended inbetween the sky and the
earth is at man's service?
The clouds are a result of the water cycle, clouds of all types are found on a lot of planets not just earth. It has nothing to do with man's service.
did you know that the lightning releases nitrogen and the trees
inhale that?
Actually the nitrogen trees use is fixed by bacteria... Nitrogen itself is a common element on earth and makes up most of the atmosphere. So what?
did you know that there are deadly gases out side the earth and we are protected
by the ozone layer?
Actually the Ozone layer protects us from radiation not gases. There are no deadly gases outside the atmosphere.
All these are causes through which God the Most Great Provides, protects,
nutures, and sustain human beings.
Could you please share your thoughts?
Life is a hardy thing, it survives boiling heat and bone cracking cold... intense radiation, lack of oxygen and feeds of "brimstone" itself. Life seems to be more of an inevitable chemical reaction than a unique creation.

wa:do

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

First before we get to this point, i would like to if you dont mind, ask you a few questions, did you know ...

Pretty embarrassing ...

 

[~Amin~]

Pretty embarrassing ...

Pretty strange....:sarcastic

 

[Autodidact]

First before we get to this point, i would like to if you dont mind,
ask you a few questions,
did you know that the earth is the third planet from
the sun if we were one planet closer or further away we would either burn
or freeze?

did you know that trees release oxygen and we breath it?

Yes.

did you know the clouds suspended inbetween the sky and the
earth is at man's service?

No, in fact I dispute it.

did you know that the lightning releases nitrogen and the trees
inhale that?

No.

did you know that there are deadly gases out side the earth and we are protected
by the ozone layer?

Ummm, sort of.

All these are causes through which God the Most Great Provides, protects,
nutures, and sustain human beings.
Could you please share your thoughts?

Wow, said the puddle, this hole fits me really nicely--isn't it amazing how God has provided this hole just the right shape to fit me?

1. And what about the plagues, hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes and lightning; does God provide them as well?
2. Do you think maybe our environment suits us so well because we evolved to survive in it? Think about it.

 

[~Amin~]

1. And what about the plagues, hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes and lightning; does God provide them as well?.

This due to our disobedience to God He Allows these to take
place so we can turn to Him in repentance.

2. Do you think maybe our environment suits us so well because we evolved to survive in it? Think about it.

At least you admit our environment fits us well true how can
you denie that?i thought allot about it but the evolution theory
has many uncertainties to rely on i believe its just conjecture
and conjecture can be of no avail aginst the truth.

 

[painted wolf]

No we fit our environment.
Just like the sulpher eating, non-oxygen breathing, ultra-high pressure tolerating, boiling water loving bacteria fit thier environment.

Life doesn't need oxygen, sunlight, warmpth or cool temperatures, it doesn't need a gentle pressure or low radiation.

Life is tough, it doesn't care what the Earth is like.

wa:do

 

[~Amin~]

No we fit our environment.
Just like the sulpher eating, non-oxygen breathing, ultra-high pressure tolerating, boiling water loving bacteria fit thier environment.

Great we agree.

Life doesn't need oxygen, sunlight, warmpth or cool temperatures, it doesn't need a gentle pressure or low radiation.

Block you nose and mouth and see if you need oxygen or not.lol.

Life is tough, it doesn't care what the Earth is like.
wa:do

This is only for those who reject the bounties of God.

 

[painted wolf]

I'm no anerobic extremeophile bacteria.

However that doesn't stop life from living without oxygen.

wa:do

 

[Nick Soapdish]

THE GOD OF THE GAPS

God is retreating, at least according to this belief, many religious people say things like “Well, we don’t know how the universe was made, or where the laws of Physics came from, so God must have done it” this doesn’t make any sense. There is no reason to fill gaps in scientific knowledge with God. We learn more about the universe every day and our knowledge is constantly expanding. The entire purpose of science is to find answers to what we don't know.

Science will some day discover where the laws of physics came from? How is that going to work out? Whatever "rules of nature" they discover to account for the laws of physics, we are left wondering where those rules came from. This goes beyond blind-faith in materialism and into irrationality.

Part of your rational thinking should include understanding the difference between physics and metaphysics.

OCCAM’S RAZOR

Why would God decide to work through the process of evolution? Is he hiding? The simplest solution tends to be the best one. Evolution explains why life in this world looks the way it does, and does a great job of it. No one can prove that there isn’t a divine hand behind evolution, but there is no evidence that there is.

Nor would there be. Stating what God ought to do and how He should go about his creation is a sloppy use of Occam's Razor.

Maybe you can help me with a stumbling block I have with naturalism. What do you know about abiogenesis? How did life originate? What slight changes and steps in nature happened to give origin to our DNA mechanisms, including the creation of RNA, and the synthesis of proteins?

 

[Nick Soapdish]

Science can't prove that Nature isn't controlled by faeries, elves, sprites and nymphs, either, nor can Thor be ruled out of various violent meteorological phenomena.
There is equal evidence all around.

Yes, we don't need evidence, only common sense to know which propositions are absurd and which are not.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What do you know about abiogenesis? How did life originate?

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."

-- Charles Darwin, Introduction to The Descent of Man (1871)

 

[painted wolf]

I hate to say it Nick but why is God somehow more belivable than a fairy?

You don't have to be alive to have RNA or DNA, viruses do quite well dispite thier lack of life... so do Prions. Prions are self replicating protiens, no life there but they manage.

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

This due to our disobedience to God He Allows these to take
place so we can turn to Him in repentance.

1. And you know this how?
2. That's one pretty mean God you got there. Also very poor aim. So, someone sins in Cleveland, and He slaughters a newborn in Indonesia.

At least you admit our environment fits us well true how can
you denie that?i thought allot about it but the evolution theory
has many uncertainties to rely on i believe its just conjecture
and conjecture can be of no avail aginst the truth.

Do you reject all of science, then, or only Biology?

 

[Autodidact]

Science will some day discover where the laws of physics came from? How is that going to work out? Whatever "rules of nature" they discover to account for the laws of physics, we are left wondering where those rules came from. This goes beyond blind-faith in materialism and into irrationality.

Yes, it may be that we never know this. It may even be that they are unknowable. That doesn't mean that making something up is the way to an answer. Sometimes the best answer is "I don't know."

Nor would there be. Stating what God ought to do and how He should go about his creation is a sloppy use of Occam's Razor.

I think you misstated his argument. What he's saying is, if science provides an explanation for X without positing God, then what is God for, at least with regard to X?

Maybe you can help me with a stumbling block I have with naturalism. What do you know about abiogenesis? How did life originate? What slight changes and steps in nature happened to give origin to our DNA mechanisms, including the creation of RNA, and the synthesis of proteins?

A little, not a lot. My understanding is that various hypotheses are currently being tested, and no definitive theory has yet been developed. Why does this give you a problem with naturalism? When we didn't know where lightning comes from, should that have provided a stumbling block? Using methodological naturalism and the scientific method, we found out. What makes the sun rise and set? Same thing--took around 1000 years, I think. What makes an eclipse? How did different species evolve? What causes leprosy? All of these and thousands more questions had supernatural answers which turned out to be wrong. Naturalism, time and persistence eventually provided the correct answer. Experience seems to indicate that this is likely with abiogenesis as well.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes, we don't need evidence, only common sense to know which propositions are absurd and which are not.

Science is a history of showing us that common sense is usually wrong.
When my common sense gives a different answer than yours, how do we figure out whose is right?