Pastor Claims Porn Is OK, as Long as It's 'Ethically' Sourced

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nah, this second-rate defense will cost you 10 yards. So no changing the subject again. Okay? Lets stick to the issue, you and your porn viewing habits, and see if you can answer the questions without trying to dodge them again. Ready? Here goes . . . .

1) And you know all this because?

2) And why would you be searching Pornhub for "meth" and "chem sex"? Sounds a bit deviant if you ask me.

.​

Yeah, it's not a defense. My porn viewing habits are none of your business, really, and it is awfully hypocritical for you to single out and attempt to embarrass people over such a subject. Who do you think you are? It's not something I was searching for and I know that there's a problem with meth among gay and bisexual men because I follow what's going on in the LGBT community. Otherwise, mind your business, perv. I don't ask you about your dog ****ing porn habits or whatever, and don't want to know.

 

[Jumi]

She sounds like mainstream Evangelical Lutheran priests in North Europe. It's been like that for quite some time.

 

[Jumi]

Evangelic Lutheran Heavy metal church, soon coming to US?

We even have comedy like this... about past preconceptions in churches (note the priest is also female, common here)

 

[Glaurung]

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe the shame she was referring to was that laid down by churches or their flocks.

No, she said that shame was a driver of compulsive porn use. That's nonsense. People use porn compulsively because porn is inherently habit forming. Whether or not one is ashamed of one's habit is an irrelevance. People use porn compulsively despite their shame, not because of it.

Perhaps not today because we're producing far better porno, but back in caveman days it may have been equally arousing.

I doubt it. And even if that were true, there's only so many cave paintings a caveman would have had access to at any given time. I really, really doubt cavemen were spending their days compulsively masturbating over the same cave paintings over and over.

Are you suggesting that pornography doesn't exist in other parts of the world, or that its acceptance there they doesn't constitute equally degenerate sexual culture?

High speed broadband is a fruit of the west. And while I'm sure that pornography is used the world over, my primary concern is with my own civilization. I don't think there has ever been a human culture that has gone as far down the toilet of sexual permissiveness as the modern west. The historical exceptions are empires/civilizations in their decay stage.

Yeah decent standards like slavery. If only Christians were allowed to bring back slavery what a better world it would be.

I suppose you think it's also a mere accident of history that the push to end slavery came from predominantly Christian societies. Like it or not the very basis from which you can even object to slavery is rooted in Christian assumptions. Because if human beings have no innate dignity then there's no rational basis to object to slavery. Which is why the pagan philosophers of old saw slavery as a natural inevitability. To dominate the inferior was simply the natural place of the superior.

The trans-Atlantic slave trade was a terrible thing. But it wasn't in and of itself driven by Christianity. It was driven despite of Christianity. It would have happened regardless of the religion. Because the idea of a universal human dignity is not something you see a whole lot outside of Christian influenced societies.

 

[Agent]

[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Eph 5

 

[Skwim]

How dare you act all judgemental.

"Judgemental"????? Asking a couple of questions about two points YOU brought up and telling you what one of them seems to be qualifies as judgemental? I don't think so, but I see your panic here. Having admitted you know quite a bit about gay porn and how to find examples of drug use and porn on the internet is evidently very embarrassing.

Don't you have another thread about ****ing dogs or siblings to make?

And again, your absurd attempt to deflect the subject away from yourself by attacking me is duly noted.

Yeah, it's not a defense.

Deny all you want, but we both know what you're up to and why.

My porn viewing habits are none of your business, really,

Fine, but in the future I wouldn't bring them up if I were you. You do realize, do you not, that everything anybody brings up is open for comment?

and it is awfully hypocritical for you to single out and attempt to embarrass people over such a subject.

You'll have to explain the hypocritical part because as it stands your accusation is only coming across as a desperate slur. And, why would you take my two questions as an attempt to embarrass you, particularly when it was YOU who brought out the fact that you know about gay porn, and "meth" and "chem sex" on Pornhub? If the later isn't deviant, as it seems to me, all you have to do is explain why it isn't.

Who do you think you are?

Someone with just as much posting rights as anyone else here, including yourself.

It's not something I was searching for and I know that there's a problem with meth among gay and bisexual men because I follow what's going on in the LGBT community.

Okay. But just remember YOU made it quite clear what to put into the search box, or whatever it is, on Pornhub to find "meth" and "chem sex" porn pictures.

Otherwise, mind your business, perv.

OUCH!

And "perv" no less. Sorry I touched such a raw nerve concerning your porn viewing habits, but ya gotta remember who brought them up. YOU! In any case, I promise not to do it again, unless, that is, you bring them up again.

I don't ask you about your dog ****ing porn habits or whatever, and don't want to know.

And I would hope it's because you realize any question would be a dumb one.



Just as a reminder. Please note that I have not said one disrespectful, insolent, or mean thing here, whereas you have.

Next time, how about playing nice.

.

 

[Woberts]

Heh, "ethically sourced."

 

[12jtartar]

This sounds like a worthy goal to work towards no matter how you feel about the personal consumption of pornographic material.

ADigitalArtist,
By the Numbers we see of murder, it seems to be getting more acceptable. Does that make it right. Remember, our Creator is the one who has the right to make the rules. Murder, nor porn is acceptable, if you want a long life.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

.

"More Americans are changing their views on pornography. A 2018 Gallup poll reported that 43 percent now believe that porn is 'morally acceptable'.

That's a 7 percent increase over 2017 and the highest level since Gallup began measuring moral perceptions of pornography in 2011. The liberal view of porn is also making inroads in the church.

Recently, Nadia Bolz-Weber, an Evangelical Lutheran Church pastor and founder of the House for All Saints and Sinners in Denver, told Out In Jersey about her thoughts on "ethical pornography."

​

She said, "Now, there are issues of justice and exploitation within the porn industry, no question, but it doesn't mean consumption of pornography should be shamed. There is ethically sourced porn. There are people who say it's sexual immorality, but if you take liberals and conservatives who show outrage and made a Venn diagram of those who consume pornography, you'd see a huge overlap."

Ethical porn is considered to be pornography that is legally made, respects the performers' rights, uses good working conditions and celebrates sexual diversity and similar characteristics.

Bolz-Weber voiced concern that the church's stand against porn is based on shame.

She said, "I'm not going to shame people when they already feel ashamed. People have viewed erotic imagery since we could scratch it on the inside of caves ... If we took shame out of the fact that people like to view erotic imagery, the compulsive behavior around consuming pornography would decrease."
source​

So, does she have a valid point or not?

.

Basically been my opinion for a while now.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

ADigitalArtist,
By the Numbers we see of murder, it seems to be getting more acceptable. Does that make it right. Remember, our Creator is the one who has the right to make the rules. Murder, nor porn is acceptable, if you want a long life.

I can come up with both religious and secular arguments against murder, what are the religious and/or secular arguments against porn?

 

[rosends]

it also has to be artisinal and from a sustainable source.

 

[Cooky]

I can come up with both religious and secular arguments against murder, what are the religious and/or secular arguments against porn?

My mom told me, when I was young, that sex is about love and that porn teaches people that the love factor is not important in sexual relationships...

(please nobody say anything about my mom because she just passed away a few months ago at 67 from pancreatic cancer. She was a beautiful human being and the nicest person I have ever met)

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

it also has to be artisinal and from a sustainable source.

Fortunately naked humans are pretty sustainable

 

[Jumi]

No, she said that shame was a driver of compulsive porn use. That's nonsense. People use porn compulsively because porn is inherently habit forming. Whether or not one is ashamed of one's habit is an irrelevance. People use porn compulsively despite their shame, not because of it.

People hide their addictions due to shame, so it keeps the cycle going.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

No, she said that shame was a driver of compulsive porn use. That's nonsense. People use porn compulsively because porn is inherently habit forming. Whether or not one is ashamed of one's habit is an irrelevance. People use porn compulsively despite their shame, not because of it.


I doubt it. And even if that were true, there's only so many cave paintings a caveman would have had access to at any given time. I really, really doubt cavemen were spending their days compulsively masturbating over the same cave paintings over and over.


High speed broadband is a fruit of the west. And while I'm sure that pornography is used the world over, my primary concern is with my own civilization. I don't think there has ever been a human culture that has gone as far down the toilet of sexual permissiveness as the modern west. The historical exceptions are empires/civilizations in their decay stage.


I suppose you think it's also a mere accident of history that the push to end slavery came from predominantly Christian societies. Like it or not the very basis from which you can even object to slavery is rooted in Christian assumptions. Because if human beings have no innate dignity then there's no rational basis to object to slavery. Which is why the pagan philosophers of old saw slavery as a natural inevitability. To dominate the inferior was simply the natural place of the superior.

The trans-Atlantic slave trade was a terrible thing. But it wasn't in and of itself driven by Christianity. It was driven despite of Christianity. It would have happened regardless of the religion. Because the idea of a universal human dignity is not something you see a whole lot outside of Christian influenced societies.

You have evidence that porn is "inherently habit forming", of course?

 

[Jumi]

Just as a reminder. Please note that I have not said one disrespectful, insolent, or mean thing here, whereas you have.

Next time, how about playing nice.

You think you weren't disrespectful to St.? You were and I thought what you wrote was quite ugly and hypocritical. You put your own preferences on full display and demand respect for them, but don't offer any to others. Don't tell others to play nice when you don't play nice yourself and get something in return.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This sounds like a worthy goal to work towards no matter how you feel about the personal consumption of pornographic material.

Yet, interesting

.

"More Americans are changing their views on pornography. A 2018 Gallup poll reported that 43 percent now believe that porn is 'morally acceptable'.

That's a 7 percent increase over 2017 and the highest level since Gallup began measuring moral perceptions of pornography in 2011. The liberal view of porn is also making inroads in the church.

Recently, Nadia Bolz-Weber, an Evangelical Lutheran Church pastor and founder of the House for All Saints and Sinners in Denver, told Out In Jersey about her thoughts on "ethical pornography."

​

She said, "Now, there are issues of justice and exploitation within the porn industry, no question, but it doesn't mean consumption of pornography should be shamed. There is ethically sourced porn. There are people who say it's sexual immorality, but if you take liberals and conservatives who show outrage and made a Venn diagram of those who consume pornography, you'd see a huge overlap."

Ethical porn is considered to be pornography that is legally made, respects the performers' rights, uses good working conditions and celebrates sexual diversity and similar characteristics.

Bolz-Weber voiced concern that the church's stand against porn is based on shame.

She said, "I'm not going to shame people when they already feel ashamed. People have viewed erotic imagery since we could scratch it on the inside of caves ... If we took shame out of the fact that people like to view erotic imagery, the compulsive behavior around consuming pornography would decrease."
source​

So, does she have a valid point or not?

.

Not sure you have a valid point, quoting one pastor, when millions of others are opposed to porn. This article irks you because the intent is so un-Christian. Porn is legal prostitution (pay for sex) hidden under a first amendment veil.

 

[rosends]

Fortunately naked humans are pretty sustainable

not after a certain age. For that, there are pills.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Yet, interesting


Not sure you have a valid point, quoting one pastor, when millions of others are opposed to porn. This article irks you because the intent is so un-Christian. Porn is legal prostitution (pay for sex) hidden under a first amendment veil.

So? What's wrong with legal prostitution? Indeed, considering the primary reason for Biblical sexual prohibitions is the elimination of extramarital pregnancies, one could argue that porn would be Biblically acceptable prostitution. It all rather depends on your exegesical beliefs.

Certainly from a secular ethical standpoint, assuming the freely given consent of everyone involved, I can't see a problem with it. No one's forcing you to participate if you don't want, just leave those who do alone.

 

[Polymath257]

I believe there is a Lily Tomlin quote along the lines of

"After 5 minutes of watching porn, I want to have sex. After 30 minutes, I never want to have sex again".

Porn does not have to be exploitative. It is, by its nature, a fantasy, but it can be respectful of the people involved and emotions. And the move to better porn is a good thing, imho.