Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
The fine man Pat Condell tells the truth with brilliant eloquence.
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Pat Condell on Feminism and Islam
- Thread starter Rational Agnostic
- Start date
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
One can almost feel the hatred oozing out of the man. Just kidding, wrong thread. Years ago, I showed one of his videos from the day to a couple of elderly British expats and the wife exclaimed at the end, "He should run for Prime Minister."
As I have said many times on RF, it was never the anti-Islam brigade that set me against Islam. My heart hardened after reading the thoughts of Muslim "intellectuals" and endless authentic Muslim texts free from distortion from the haters. I think @LuisDantas would be inclined to agree. Once you begin the educate yourself about the horror show that is Islam, one quickly discovers it ain't pretty.
As I have said many times on RF, it was never the anti-Islam brigade that set me against Islam. My heart hardened after reading the thoughts of Muslim "intellectuals" and endless authentic Muslim texts free from distortion from the haters. I think @LuisDantas would be inclined to agree. Once you begin the educate yourself about the horror show that is Islam, one quickly discovers it ain't pretty.
Would you please give a little more detail for the newbie here?
My pleasure, Vee.
At first I extrapolated from Christianity and assumed much about Islaam, choosing to err on the side of caution whenever possible.
Gradually along the years I learned, among other things, that the Qur'aan is simply not helpful on that regard. It keeps insisting that whether people adopt Islaam is a very big deal; that Muslims should not hesitate to side with other Muslims and refuse to trust non-Muslims quite as much; that it is all-out wrong and dangerous to refuse Abrahamic monotheism unless one did not have a "fair chance" of learning of it; that non-believers in Islaam should be either pitied or despised, with little in the way of alternatives.
In short, it relies entirely on a tribal mentality that divides people between those from within the tribe and those from without, and derives its directives from there. A rather primitive and unsuitable attempt at a moral structure, particularly given the current population levels and its demands.
Theologically, it is also rather fragile, leading to what often seems to be a deliberate failure to even attempt to understand religious postures that are not obsessively monotheistic and proselitist. It is rather dismaying. To the best of my understanding, Muslims seem to literally be incapable of understanding the differences among the concepts of idolatry, polytheism, trinitarianism, henotheism and even paganism, for instance - and worse, there is considerable reluctance to even admit that there is validity in attempting to understand those.
I have actually come to conclude that it is a mistake to even call Islaam a religion. A religion is supposed to take itself somewhat seriously (as opposed to obsessively), to have the courage to deal with the reality of the world as it is, and to encourage the development of personal religious courage and moral values. Islaam is either ill-prepared or outright inimical to all of those goals.
My attitude can't be further than it is from @LuisDantas based on the same process of study and reflection. I'm not speaking about how it's interpreted in some places, very conservatively and worse, but in how it's interpreted and practiced in a positive sense as well as negatively.
The claims of some are much the same as the claims of some Christians - believe or go to hell and we're going to impose our religion on you. Going back not too far, war, torture, political control by the church etc were features of Christianity. Today even Buddhists terrorize Muslims, Hindus and Muslims have slaughtered each other and so forth.
When I look at how Islam is practiced in America, pictures of how Muslims protect Synagogues and Churches against terrorists etc, I am forced to conclude by the evidence that Islam can be practiced with "religious courage and moral values".
And I have found that to speak as if a religion was a monolith is a mistake for all religions including Islam.
The claims of some are much the same as the claims of some Christians - believe or go to hell and we're going to impose our religion on you. Going back not too far, war, torture, political control by the church etc were features of Christianity. Today even Buddhists terrorize Muslims, Hindus and Muslims have slaughtered each other and so forth.
When I look at how Islam is practiced in America, pictures of how Muslims protect Synagogues and Churches against terrorists etc, I am forced to conclude by the evidence that Islam can be practiced with "religious courage and moral values".
And I have found that to speak as if a religion was a monolith is a mistake for all religions including Islam.
I don't like his apparent disdain for whores.
People gotta work.
I'm a Muslim and I think I'm perfectly capable of understanding those concepts and the validity-in-principle of those ideas.
That makes you literally exceptional, @The_Fisher_King
Gee, thanks! [Blushes]
But I've met other Muslims who are similarly informed and open-minded (not so many on RF, I'll give you that..).
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Sorry to change the subject for a moment, BUT, - I just noticed the words under your name = Ploughing my own furrow
Could you please give us your meaning behind it -
As to many of us that have studied the Abrahamic religions, - it is a sex reference. LOL!
Just thought I would let you know that. Carry on.
Notanumber
A Free Man
Islam preys on the vulnerable.
The Quran is learned parrot fashion but it cannot be scrutinised and questioned.
The Quran is learned parrot fashion but it cannot be scrutinised and questioned.
Sorry to change the subject for a moment, BUT, - I just noticed the words under your name = Ploughing my own furrow
Could you please give us your meaning behind it -
As to many of us that have studied the Abrahamic religions, - it is a sex reference. LOL!
Just thought I would let you know that. Carry on.
Something like this: Definition of PLOUGH ONE'S OWN FURROW
I don't prey on the vulnerable. And I sure as hell didn't learn the Qur'aan parrot fashion. Moreover, I scrutinise and question it all the time!
Just because some Muslims have been taught or experienced a deeply patriarchal, nay, abusive form of Islaam, doesn't mean that's every Muslim's understanding or experience of their religion (or sacred text).
For some of us, it is a way to understand and experience the world around us, indeed interact with it in a respectful way, a framework and a space within which we can learn and grow in every sense of the word.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I don't know you, but if every Muslim was like you I might convert. I used to pray with Sufi Muslims at a mosque in New York. I thought about converting.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ahhh! Like "doing my own thing," in the USA.
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You kidding me? I live in a country where a great majority of Christian woman voted for a *****-grabber.
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
And what does that have to do with the points made in the video.......?