Patriotism as an American

[Monk Of Reason]

Facts don't care about the leftists feelings. There is a saying that "to anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." And I think this clearly displays the contrasting worldviews each has. What I saw was specific media outlets had propagated and altered the context on what Trump says to fit a narrative that the left ate up, no questions asked.

Nah. Thats just typical echo chamber reinforcement. I mean have you ever talked to a conservative about evolution or climate science? Sure we have exceptions but for the most part they hate it. Trickle down economics? What democratic socialism is? What country is the greatest country in the world? I mean I could go on and on but lets not pretend that leftist are the scientifically and factually incompentent ones. Or rather at least not the only ones. Again the majority of people are stupid. The majority of people just believe whatever echo chamber bull**** they are fed. Both ideologies at the core are at some piont "wrong".

An actual example: The specific news media would say, "Trump hates Mexicans. Trump hates Muslims." But what Trump actually said was, "Some of the Mexicans who come here illegally are criminals." And "We should temporarily stop Muslim immigration from the Middle East until we figure out how to screen out terrorists."

So when I hear the over-used rhetoric of fascist, racist, misogynist etc, it's all wishy washy nonsense to me. It's white noise. It's baseless drivel propagated by media outlets that have fried the brain cells of those that parrot it.

Indeed. However if you listen to even his unedited bits and things that I referenced earlier you'll see it isn't without substance. Of course they take what he give him and make sure to exemplify it. Pretty much all of our news outlets are trash right now. And this is one thing I hate about groupings. You have major idiots that are excessivly vocal in all camps. So when Trump says something legitimatly upsetting we have a news outlet that wants to make a quick buck off of it and makes it sound even worse. Yeah it was a scale of 6/10 bad thing to say and really nothing above a 2/10 is even remotely accetpable but lets represent it as if its an 11/10. Then you get someone who takes that as gospel truth and you find it was exaggerated. Now when someone who legitimatly talks about the issue it gets totally dismissed as just bull**** because of association with people who don't know how to formulate arguments or fact check sources.

This also happens with conservatives as well. There are some incredibly intellegent, respectful and articulate members of society that, because of the similarities of their arguments, are declared "alt right".

On the flip side understand that your news sources if they come from conservative sources will downplay what /Trump says. It is most likely somewhere in the middle. Do you think that he has said nothign that was unbefitting of a president in his campaign?

The birth certificate of Obama, though I have only looked into it very briefly, but from what I understand about it, is that it was Democratic Obama supporter (Sheriff Joe Arpaio) that tried to refute the conspiracy once and for all --- he couldn't. He said it wasn't about Obama, it was about the forgery of a document. The law should apply to everyone regardless if you pump gas or senator of a state; why let this go with no repercussions? I believe the law and those that uphold it have an obligation to clear and hold accountability to those responsible no matter who you are.

Source of Obama's Birth Certificate:

Why do you think he was a democrat?

The origin was made up intentionally to discredit Obama. We never saw any actual evidence of anyone forging a document. That is why no actual court cases went out. No actual investigations were done. Because it wasn't real. It was a tool used to get people in conservative echo chambers to believe it. It worked so well that when he released the short form they still didn't believe it and even after he released the long form some 25% of republicans still doubted its authinticity.

 

[JakofHearts]

Nah. Thats just typical echo chamber reinforcement. I mean have you ever talked to a conservative about evolution or climate science? Sure we have exceptions but for the most part they hate it. Trickle down economics? What democratic socialism is? What country is the greatest country in the world? I mean I could go on and on but lets not pretend that leftist are the scientifically and factually incompentent ones. Or rather at least not the only ones. Again the majority of people are stupid. The majority of people just believe whatever echo chamber bull**** they are fed. Both ideologies at the core are at some piont "wrong".

Indeed. However if you listen to even his unedited bits and things that I referenced earlier you'll see it isn't without substance. Of course they take what he give him and make sure to exemplify it. Pretty much all of our news outlets are trash right now. And this is one thing I hate about groupings. You have major idiots that are excessivly vocal in all camps. So when Trump says something legitimatly upsetting we have a news outlet that wants to make a quick buck off of it and makes it sound even worse. Yeah it was a scale of 6/10 bad thing to say and really nothing above a 2/10 is even remotely accetpable but lets represent it as if its an 11/10. Then you get someone who takes that as gospel truth and you find it was exaggerated. Now when someone who legitimatly talks about the issue it gets totally dismissed as just bull**** because of association with people who don't know how to formulate arguments or fact check sources.

This also happens with conservatives as well. There are some incredibly intellegent, respectful and articulate members of society that, because of the similarities of their arguments, are declared "alt right".

On the flip side understand that your news sources if they come from conservative sources will downplay what /Trump says. It is most likely somewhere in the middle. Do you think that he has said nothign that was unbefitting of a president in his campaign?



Why do you think he was a democrat?

The origin was made up intentionally to discredit Obama. We never saw any actual evidence of anyone forging a document. That is why no actual court cases went out. No actual investigations were done. Because it wasn't real. It was a tool used to get people in conservative echo chambers to believe it. It worked so well that when he released the short form they still didn't believe it and even after he released the long form some 25% of republicans still doubted its authinticity.

You missed the point when I said that certain media outlets that most leftists tune into are purposefully been led to believe falsehoods and untruths and alterations to what Trump said. I don't equate "most leftists" with "most people", I observe that the leftists are much more prone to a mob mentality because their worldview differs from a conservatives. I've mentioned this elsewhere before that identity politics gets the better of the easily influenced (to whichever way one leans) the left just happen to be more applicable to falling for it because they are dependent on it, and have shown to be intolerant to views that differ from theres.

Your second point (and this answers @idav comment as well) is that it is of no value to me, and agree that specific media had been trying to associate a very carefully constructed quote mine with a narrative that Trump and his supporters are racist. And that is all that is going on here. I don't see any hidden truth that Trump hates Mexicans and whoever, and it's something the left are persistent on. It's an argument from silence. I personally think most liberals need to get their head out of the gutter on this nonsense.

Your last point about the birth certificate of Obama, is really a slide by using the race card and ridicule on Sheriff Joe Arpaio to discredit the claims being made. There seems to be very profound evidence (something that worldwide experts have looked into) to suggest beyond reasonable doubt that the document was forged. What happens next, I think depends on how Trump wants to approach it.
Is Sheriff Joe Arpaio a democrat Obama supporter? As I said, I only briefly looked into it, but seems to me, he was, and he didn't believe the birth certificate was forged at first, but having looked into it he couldn't clear it because all evidence showed it was forged.

Overall, my thoughts are that the left have nothing of real substance to work with against the President elect, and I see mostly hurt feelings and smear attacks because Trump won.

 

[Lyndon]

I edited the source for you. I know this is asking a lot, but, look through it then let me know your thoughts.

(Proverbs 29:20) Do you see a man who speaks in haste? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

You didn't edit it, Arpaio is a Republican that hated Obama, look it up.

Joe Arpaio - Wikipedia

 

[JakofHearts]

You didn't edit it, Arpaio is a Republican that hated Obama, look it up.

Correction, I was actually referring to Mike Zullo who dedicated five years of his life to this investigation, not sheriff Joe Arpaio.

You're still welcome to address the hearing I provided, as I am willing to understand what your own opinion is on the matter and not some regurgitation you heard from the t.v.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

You missed the point when I said that certain media outlets that most leftists tune into are purposefully been led to believe falsehoods and untruths and alterations to what Trump said. I don't equate "most leftists" with "most people", I observe that the leftists are much more prone to a mob mentality because their worldview differs from a conservatives. I've mentioned this elsewhere before that identity politics gets the better of the easily influenced (to whichever way one leans) the left just happen to be more applicable to falling for it because they are dependent on it, and have shown to be intolerant to views that differ from theres.

What is fox news then? Fair and balanced? LIsten man I'm not saying your wrong about liberals. I'm just saying you are way more correct about liberals than you are conservatives. They are just as bad.

Your second point (and this answers @idav comment as well) is that it is of no value to me, and agree that specific media had been trying to associate a very carefully constructed quote mine with a narrative that Trump and his supporters are racist. And that is all that is going on here. I don't see any hidden truth that Trump hates Mexicans and whoever, and it's something the left are persistent on. It's an argument from silence. I personally think most liberals need to get their head out of the gutter on this nonsense.

He has said some profoundly negative things that are unbecoming of a president. People vote for him anyway because they don't care. Either they don't want to believe he has said some things or they simply are okay with it. The first is denial and the second raises questions about the moral standpoint. There is no other inbetween. I don't think he hates mexicans. I don't think he hates muslims. I think that he says whatever will reflect the best reaction from his fan base. And they resonated with it swimmingly.

Your last point about the birth certificate of Obama, is really a slide by using the race card and ridicule on Sheriff Joe Arpaio to discredit the claims being made. There seems to be very profound evidence (something that worldwide experts have looked into) to suggest beyond reasonable doubt that the document was forged. What happens next, I think depends on how Trump wants to approach it.
Is Sheriff Joe Arpaio a democrat Obama supporter? As I said, I only briefly looked into it, but seems to me, he was, and he didn't believe the birth certificate was forged at first, but having looked into it he couldn't clear it because all evidence showed it was forged.

I'm not using a slide by race card. Obama's race was indicitive of the issue. I still see people today saying "Kenya lost its village idiot" when referring to Obama. There has been zero evidence actually brought to light about any kind of forged document. I did a few quick searches and only found right wing propaganda machines and their garbage. No actual journalism on the subject. No investigation by serious parties brought anything up at all.

Overall, my thoughts are that the left have nothing of real substance to work with against the President elect, and I see mostly hurt feelings and smear attacks because Trump won.

I mean there is a near infinte number of things wrong with him but people that support him usually turn a blind eye and those who are against him seem them as exaggrated but you can't truely believe he doesn't have major faults.

 

[Augustus]

Facts don't care about the leftists feelings. There is a saying that "to anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." And I think this clearly displays the contrasting worldviews each has.

I observe that the leftists are much more prone to a mob mentality because their worldview differs from a conservatives. I've mentioned this elsewhere before that identity politics gets the better of the easily influenced (to whichever way one leans) the left just happen to be more applicable to falling for it because they are dependent on it, and have shown to be intolerant to views that differ from theres.

Unfortunately facts don't care much for your feelings either and the fact is that humans in general care little for facts and truth when emotions are involved. Truth plays second fiddle to feeling good, and emotions trump reason.

When you see your side as being noble and truth seeking but the other as being dishonest, weak and sheep like then you are getting suckered in to believing an emotionally comforting myth. Our brains have evolved to use all kinds of trickery to protect us from uncomfortable truths, and this affects both sides of the political spectrum equally.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I mean there is a near infinte number of things wrong with him but people that support him usually turn a blind eye and those who are against him seem them as exaggrated but you can't truely believe he doesn't have major faults.

What I find bad, is there are so many false claims against Obama that one is exhausted from correcting the fake before the real complaints can be addressed. It's really no different than Hillary. She's not a "perfect angel," but after you've done addressed Benghazi and the email and everything else that the day is done before you can get to a real complaint about her.

 

[JakofHearts]

Unfortunately facts don't care much for your feelings either and the fact is that humans in general care little for facts and truth when emotions are involved. Truth plays second fiddle to feeling good, and emotions trump reason.

When you see your side as being noble and truth seeking but the other as being dishonest, weak and sheep like then you are getting suckered in to believing an emotionally comforting myth. Our brains have evolved to use all kinds of trickery to protect us from uncomfortable truths, and this affects both sides of the political spectrum equally.

This may apply to you, but I can say this most certainly does not reflect the way I see the world; and if you believe this to be true for everyone, then you haven't been paying attention. If the majority rule were ruled by their emotional psyche rather than reason, this kind of outlook would be very dangerous for the minority, and closely resemble the hallmarks of the SJW crowd. That is why the American founding fathers set forth America as a constitutional republic; that was the point of the electoral college. That is probably why most old school ethics are timeless, like the term, "I may disagree with you, but I will defend your right to the death."

Your points may have been worth noting if all the politically correct noise the left made during the election and after was equally proportionate to the right's behaviour -- it is not equivalent, and it hasn't been throughout American history.

 

[Augustus]

This may apply to you, but I can say this most certainly does not reflect the way I see the world; and if you believe this to be true for everyone, then you haven't been paying attention. If the majority rule were ruled by their emotional psyche rather than reason, this kind of outlook would be very dangerous for the minority, and closely resemble the hallmarks of the SJW crowd. That is why the American founding fathers set forth America as a constitutional republic; that was the point of the electoral college. That is probably why most old school ethics are timeless, like the term, "I may disagree with you, but I will defend your right to the death."

Your points may have been worth noting if all the politically correct noise the left made during the election and after was equally proportionate to the right's behaviour -- it is not equivalent, and it hasn't been throughout American history.

It applies to everyone because we are all part of the same species with the same genetic and evolutionary history. It's not my opinion, it is scientific fact.

People's emotional attachment to their own (mistaken) sense of reason often prevents them from accepting this fact though.

Your anti-left emotions make you apply different standards to what you perceive leading you to confirm your preconceived notions about 'us' and 'them'.

Now the US left are whining, for the last 8 years the US right were whining. It's just people have short memories and are subject to confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance so they only pay attention to the flaws of the other side of the political spectrum.

To believe that 'your side' is rational is only possible if you are either ignorant of human cognition or irrational (or both). Everyone is irrational, it just manifests itself in slightly different ways.

The best chance you have to reduce your levels of irrationality is to first of all acknowledge that your cognition makes you fundamentally irrational. Few people are willing to accept this though preferring to exist in an emotionally comforting fiction of their own rationality.

 

[JakofHearts]

It applies to everyone because we are all part of the same species with the same genetic and evolutionary history. It's not my opinion, it is scientific fact.

People's emotional attachment to their own (mistaken) sense of reason often prevents them from accepting this fact though.

Your anti-left emotions make you apply different standards to what you perceive leading you to confirm your preconceived notions about 'us' and 'them'.

Now the US left are whining, for the last 8 years the US right were whining. It's just people have short memories and are subject to confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance so they only pay attention to the flaws of the other side of the political spectrum.

To believe that 'your side' is rational is only possible if you are either ignorant of human cognition or irrational (or both). Everyone is irrational, it just manifests itself in slightly different ways.

The best chance you have to reduce your levels of irrationality is to first of all acknowledge that your cognition makes you fundamentally irrational. Few people are willing to accept this though preferring to exist in an emotionally comforting fiction of their own rationality.

If you really believe that the right have been just as terrible as the left (i.e democrats vs republicans) then you are going to need to provide examples, because history disagrees with you.

 

[Augustus]

If you really believe that the right have been just as terrible as the left (i.e democrats vs republicans) then you are going to need to provide examples, because history disagrees with you.

Forget politics, the point is about human cognition. Politics is irrational and partisan precisely because of our cognition.

Up to you whether or not you prefer to live in an emotionally comforting bubble over accepting the reality of the way the human mind works.

If, as you claim, you are interested in truth then there is a whole load of scientific information you can read on the subject. If you prefer partisan identity politics then you are probably contradicting your own narrative though.

 

[JakofHearts]

Forget politics, the point is about human cognition. Politics is irrational and partisan precisely because of our cognition.

Up to you whether or not you prefer to live in an emotionally comforting bubble over accepting the reality of the way the human mind works.

If, as you claim, you are interested in truth then there is a whole load of scientific information you can read on the subject. If you prefer partisan identity politics then you are probably contradicting your own narrative though.

I agree that humans are capable of terrible things, that is why we are a nation of laws. We do not follow our feelings, we follow the law. That is what it means to be civilized, and conservatives tend to like things that work and therefore there is no need to fix it.

As I mentioned before, your line of thought is very dangerous to the minority, because if prefers to bring priority to your feelings rather than the law. That's what we call, barbarism.

 

[Augustus]

I agree that humans are capable of terrible things, that is why we are a nation of laws. We do not follow our feelings, we follow the law. That is what it means to be civilized, and conservatives tend to like things that work and therefore there is no need to fix it.

As I mentioned before, your line of thought is very dangerous to the minority, because if prefers to bring priority to your feelings rather than the law. That's what we call, barbarism.

I think you have missed the point because your reply appears totally unconnected to what I was saying.

Never mind.