Patriotism - what does it mean?

[Alien826]

This has been inspired by the DNC which, though I support the Dems fully, drifted into a definition of patriotism that I don't like.

Before I begin, please stick to the main subject and not get into politics, though I understand that's difficult on this subject.

Definition #1: My country is the greatest country in the entire world, if not the universe. Anyone who says anything else is a traitor at the least. Any criticism of my country is totally unwarranted and should be punished in some way.

A quote from somewhere that I will reproduce from memory is "An irrational attachment to an area of the planet because I happen to have been born there".

Definition #2: My country leaves a lot to be desired and its history contains things we should be ashamed of, but the principles that were set out by our founders are good ones. I will work to make the country more on line with those principles so we can be truly proud of what it is rather than what it aspires to be.

Comments please.

 

[Regiomontanus]

This has been inspired by the DNC which, though I support the Dems fully, drifted into a definition of patriotism that I don't like.

Before I begin, please stick to the main subject and not get into politics, though I understand that's difficult on this subject.

Definition #1: My country is the greatest country in the entire world, if not the universe. Anyone who says anything else is a traitor at the least. Any criticism of my country is totally unwarranted and should be punished in some way.

A quote from somewhere that I will reproduce from memory is "An irrational attachment to an area of the planet because I happen to have been born there".

Definition #2: My country leaves a lot to be desired and its history contains things we should be ashamed of, but the principles that were set out by our founders are good ones. I will work to make the country more on line with those principles so we can be truly proud of what it is rather than what it aspires to be.

Comments please.

Down with nationalism. I am for a one-world government. Of course I am not naive enough to think it will happen!

 

[Pogo]

This has been inspired by the DNC which, though I support the Dems fully, drifted into a definition of patriotism that I don't like.

Before I begin, please stick to the main subject and not get into politics, though I understand that's difficult on this subject.

Definition #1: My country is the greatest country in the entire world, if not the universe. Anyone who says anything else is a traitor at the least. Any criticism of my country is totally unwarranted and should be punished in some way.

A quote from somewhere that I will reproduce from memory is "An irrational attachment to an area of the planet because I happen to have been born there".

Definition #2: My country leaves a lot to be desired and its history contains things we should be ashamed of, but the principles that were set out by our founders are good ones. I will work to make the country more on line with those principles so we can be truly proud of what it is rather than what it aspires to be.

Comments please.

How do we put the two together, one is aspiration, the other is reality.
Neither to the extreme defined by this fantastic dichotomy, but if the alternative is lets go back to some imaginary past state?

No, liberals are not that enamored of fantasy, but they can state dreams.

Might be useful in some intellectual environments.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This has been inspired by the DNC which, though I support the Dems fully, drifted into a definition of patriotism that I don't like.

Before I begin, please stick to the main subject and not get into politics, though I understand that's difficult on this subject.

Definition #1: My country is the greatest country in the entire world, if not the universe. Anyone who says anything else is a traitor at the least. Any criticism of my country is totally unwarranted and should be punished in some way.

A quote from somewhere that I will reproduce from memory is "An irrational attachment to an area of the planet because I happen to have been born there".

Definition #2: My country leaves a lot to be desired and its history contains things we should be ashamed of, but the principles that were set out by our founders are good ones. I will work to make the country more on line with those principles so we can be truly proud of what it is rather than what it aspires to be.

Comments please.

Are your definitions alluding to the government at the people , or the people at the government?

 

[Pogo]

Are your definitions alluding to the government at the people , or the people at the government?

relevance and also the meaning of "at" in this context?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This has been inspired by the DNC which, though I support the Dems fully, drifted into a definition of patriotism that I don't like.

Before I begin, please stick to the main subject and not get into politics, though I understand that's difficult on this subject.

Definition #1: My country is the greatest country in the entire world, if not the universe. Anyone who says anything else is a traitor at the least. Any criticism of my country is totally unwarranted and should be punished in some way.

A quote from somewhere that I will reproduce from memory is "An irrational attachment to an area of the planet because I happen to have been born there".

Definition #2: My country leaves a lot to be desired and its history contains things we should be ashamed of, but the principles that were set out by our founders are good ones. I will work to make the country more on line with those principles so we can be truly proud of what it is rather than what it aspires to be.

Comments please.

Patriotism is love for and loyalty to one's nation.

How patriotism gets expressed depends on one's values and what one considers one's "nation."

 

[crossfire]

Patriotic--love of the fatherland. Whether it is love of the Fatherland or love of the Motherland, there is going to be blood in the soil. I would say it is best to acknowledge this, and learn from it.

 

[Spice]

For me "patriotism" is taking responsibility for my home. This responsibility, that begins with the most minute parts of "community," parallels responsibility for "family" on an increasingly larger scale. First is household, then neighborhood, and after community comes county, state, region, country, continent, hemisphere, etc.

Just like family, I do my best to stay aware of strengths and weaknesses of the individual parts that effect the whole, working to correct and strengthen the weaknesses and maintaining and building upon the strengths. And just like family, I can love all parts, but not like all. I can be proud of parts and extremely worried and concerned for others. And like family, I'll not deny belonging, but if necessary to abide by integrity, I can, if I must, turn my back without doing intentional harm.

So "patriotism," IMO is the responsibility of belonging.

 

[anna.]

This has been inspired by the DNC which, though I support the Dems fully, drifted into a definition of patriotism that I don't like.

Before I begin, please stick to the main subject and not get into politics, though I understand that's difficult on this subject.

Definition #1: My country is the greatest country in the entire world, if not the universe. Anyone who says anything else is a traitor at the least. Any criticism of my country is totally unwarranted and should be punished in some way.

A quote from somewhere that I will reproduce from memory is "An irrational attachment to an area of the planet because I happen to have been born there".

Definition #2: My country leaves a lot to be desired and its history contains things we should be ashamed of, but the principles that were set out by our founders are good ones. I will work to make the country more on line with those principles so we can be truly proud of what it is rather than what it aspires to be.

Comments please.

Seems a bit of a false dilemma. Either one or the other? What about a little of both plus more of something else?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

For me "patriotism" is taking responsibility for my home. This responsibility, that begins with the most minute parts of "community," parallels responsibility for "family" on an increasingly larger scale. First is household, then neighborhood, and after community comes county, state, region, country, continent, hemisphere, etc.

Just like family, I do my best to stay aware of strengths and weaknesses of the individual parts that effect the whole, working to correct and strengthen the weaknesses and maintaining and building upon the strengths. And just like family, I can love all parts, but not like all. I can be proud of parts and extremely worried and concerned for others. And like family, I'll not deny belonging, but if necessary to abide by integrity, I can, if I must, turn my back without doing intentional harm.

So "patriotism," IMO is the responsibility of belonging.

I do like your approach to this!

 

[Pogo]

Patriotic--love of the fatherland. Whether it is love of the Fatherland or love of the Motherland, there is going to be blood in the soil. I would say it is best to acknowledge this, and learn from it.

So down with patriotism because it fertilizes a limited set of crops?

 

[crossfire]

So down with patriotism because it fertilizes a limited set of crops?

Is crop fertilizer all that people are useful for?

 

[Pogo]

Is crop fertilizer all that people are useful for?

In the long run relative to humans propensity to fight with each other, it may not be all but one of the better values.

 

[crossfire]

In the long run relative to humans propensity to fight with each other, it may not be all but one of the better values.

This would be relevant to the part where I wrote, "is best to acknowledge this, and learn from it."

 

[Pogo]

This would be relevant to the part where I wrote, "is best to acknowledge this, and learn from it."

It is late, sometimes my "humor" and "sarcasm" is confused.

 

[crossfire]

It is late, sometimes my "humor" and "sarcasm" is confused.

Don't feel bad. I have the same problem.

 

[Heyo]

This has been inspired by the DNC which, though I support the Dems fully, drifted into a definition of patriotism that I don't like.

Before I begin, please stick to the main subject and not get into politics, though I understand that's difficult on this subject.

Definition #1: My country is the greatest country in the entire world, if not the universe. Anyone who says anything else is a traitor at the least. Any criticism of my country is totally unwarranted and should be punished in some way.

A quote from somewhere that I will reproduce from memory is "An irrational attachment to an area of the planet because I happen to have been born there".

Definition #2: My country leaves a lot to be desired and its history contains things we should be ashamed of, but the principles that were set out by our founders are good ones. I will work to make the country more on line with those principles so we can be truly proud of what it is rather than what it aspires to be.

Comments please.

"Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first." - Charles de Gaulle

A good quote, but sometimes it's hard to distinguish one from the other.
We Germans have a problem with patriotism. Saying that you are a patriot puts you in the extreme right corner here. And that's OK. Love of people should come first, before someone thinks about their own country.

 

[sun rise]

Definition #2: My country leaves a lot to be desired and its history contains things we should be ashamed of, but the principles that were set out by our founders are good ones. I will work to make the country more on line with those principles so we can be truly proud of what it is rather than what it aspires to be.

That's my vote. The high ideals the US was founded on as exemplified by the Declaration of Independence, the Great Seal and so forth are more than just merely good, they are transformative principles. Our national DNA is outstanding but our actions have been far from ideal with some exceptions. Some day our deeds will match our ideals.

 

[Alien826]

Are your definitions alluding to the government at the people , or the people at the government?

Do you mean who is saying it and to whom?

The first definition seems to be mainly politicians aimed at potential voters, but that's not all of it as people (in the USA) seem to have been raised to feel that way from an early age.

The second is imo an enlightened form of response to the first, and anyone can say it to anyone.

Is that close?

 

[Alien826]

Seems a bit of a false dilemma. Either one or the other? What about a little of both plus more of something else?

This is exactly what I was hoping for. A broad discussion on the subject. Would you like to define patriotism your way so we can (maybe) add it to the list?