Paul - An Apostle?

[Subduction Zone]

I already have. See my other posts. Of course you can choose what to believe. You can decide it's all legend. That doesn't change what I was talking about regarding Jesus' claims.

You did not do so after your claim of "It is obvious". By the way, why do you use the word "decide"? That implies that beliefs are irrational. That too could easily be a false accusation. When one accuses other of "deciding" one takes on a burden of proof. I could explain to you why it looks as if legend is the best answer. Do you have any evidence at all for a belief that Jesus is "Lord"?

 

[Triumph]

Baptism does not remove sins. The Bible clearly teaches that God forgives sins on the basis of repentance, and faith in the ransom sacrifice of his son, whom he sent for this purpose.
(Matthew 20:28) . . .Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.. . .
This agrees with Isaiah prophecy, or one of the Messianic prophecies...
(Isaiah 53:4, 5) 4 Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, And he bore our pains. But we considered him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed.

Did you read that in your Bible?
Perhaps you read it, but do not even understand it?
It's clear though.

 But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed.
​

Yes. God forgives our trespasses, on the basis of Christ sacrifice. There is no other way.
Hence why John 3:16 says... “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. "

The transgression was calling himself the Son of God thus called a blasphemer that refused to support a son of David Christ or the Jewish religion. Our errors according to the people that killed Jesus are agreeing Jesus is the Christ and Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus laid down his life to stop the Jews from killing his disciples thus starting a religious war. The Jews thought that once Jesus was dead then his religion would fade away, no longer a threat to their religious beliefs. Jesus died so his disciples could live in peace among Jews. The wounds of murdered Jesus removed no sin but it healed the threatened Jewish uprising against Christians, stopped war so disciples would not have their lives continuously endangered by Jews. Jews considered Jesus as stricken by God, plagued and afflicted with false doctrine.

Note Jesus is the Son of God not the Son of Man. The Son of man is coming and Jesus knows the future as a prophet. The Son of man is a military commander and a military commander vows to sacrifice his own life to win war if necessary and as commander to minister to the army he controls, not to be told what to do by an opposing armies commander.

You have to believe in the Commandment from God to love his son and not sacrifice him and be water baptized for remission of sin or you are not exercising faith in the commandments of God.

 

[nPeace]

God will forgive even people that murder if they are repentant of the murder. Paul was never repentant for killing Jesus. Paul tells us he was a killer of Christians but never shows any remorse or repentance over it, Paul just tells us he forgets about them.
Notice the response of God after Jesus asked God to forgive people that did not know what they were doing. It was not positive showing those sinners would be forgiven because Jesus asked him to forgive them. God showed expressions of rejecting even the thought of forgiving them, showing the world darkness and a storm and an earthquake. No voice of God came from heaven proclaiming God is pleased with the murder of Jesus. God did express acceptance at the baptism of Jesus praising him. God did not praise Jesus for hanging on the cross because God accepts no blood sacrifices and never did and is not going to forgive people that wanted Jesus to die. Jesus said go and learn I desire mercy and not sacrifice but Paul has no mercy for Jesus and wants no one to have mercy on Jesus. Paul wants you to agree to sacrifice Jesus without any mercy. Following Paul is agreeing to kill an innocent man without repentance for it and that is an unforgivable deadly sin. Paul still murders people by destroying their souls leading them down the wrong path away from the truth of God.

LOL. So you believe Jesus was out of harmony with God's will. LOL. That's a first.
The same guy you agree is one with the father...

You are wrong of course. That's impossible. Jesus was, and always will be, in complete agreement with his father's will. He never did, nor ever will be in disagreement.

That was to me, the most false fabrication, of all the things you have said, so far. Lol

 

[MyM]

Jesus didn't teach in that manner.
The Koine Greek term Ego eimi (Greek Ἐγώ εἰμί, pronounced [eɣó imí]), literally I am or It is I, is an emphatic form of the copulative verb εἰμι that is recorded in the Gospels to have been spoken by Jesus on several occasions to refer to himself not with the role of a verb but playing the role of a name, in the Gospel of John occurring seven times with specific titles. These usages have been the subject of significant Christological analysis.[1][2] The term I Am relating to God appears over 300 times in the Bible, first in the book of Genesis (15:1) and last in Revelation (22:16). This has led to the Biblical God sometimes being referred to as “the great ‘I am’

Jesus was equating Himself with the "I AM" title God gave Himself in Exodus 3:14.

"This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
(John 5:18).

Why did the Jews try to kill him for merely saying he was if they didn't understand the implications?
If not true, what he said was blasphemy and the punishment under the Mosaic Law was death.

(Leviticus 24:11–14).

If they had tried to kill him for merely saying he was, they would have been breaking their own law.

Show me where he said I AM GOD WORSHIP ME.

I don't want some verse THAT doesn't show me those words....IF he was God it would have made the entire Bible known. But he hasn't. You haven't found it-not ONE TIME...The Bible says it is not the author of confusion. So where are Jesus' words? Should be written all over the place.

I will save you the time. There aren't any.

contrary to what you believe Jesus DID say,

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!

Mark 12:30
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord

also others:

Galatians 3:20
Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.

1 Corinthians 8:4
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.

 

[nPeace]

The transgression was calling himself the Son of God thus called a blasphemer that refused to support a son of David Christ or the Jewish religion. Our errors according to the people that killed Jesus are agreeing Jesus is the Christ and Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus laid down his life to stop the Jews from killing his disciples thus starting a religious war. The Jews thought that once Jesus was dead then his religion would fade away, no longer a threat to their religious beliefs. Jesus died so his disciples could live in peace among Jews. The wounds of murdered Jesus removed no sin but it healed the threatened Jewish uprising against Christians, stopped war so disciples would not have their lives continuously endangered by Jews. Jews considered Jesus as stricken by God, plagued and afflicted with false doctrine.

Note Jesus is the Son of God not the Son of Man. The Son of man is coming and Jesus knows the future as a prophet. The Son of man is a military commander and a military commander vows to sacrifice his own life to win war if necessary and as commander to minister to the army he controls, not to be told what to do by an opposing armies commander.

You have to believe in the Commandment from God to love his son and not sacrifice him and be water baptized for remission of sin or you are not exercising faith in the commandments of God.

What are you saying, that Jesus is not the son of God, as the scriptures say? You are calling the Gospel writers liars?
Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[lukethethird]

What are you saying, that Jesus is not the son of God, as the scriptures say? You are calling the Gospel writers liars?
Am I understanding you correctly?

You are arguing over fiction.

 

[Triumph]

What are you saying, that Jesus is not the son of God, as the scriptures say? You are calling the Gospel writers liars?
Am I understanding you correctly?

I said followers of Jesus say Jesus is a Son of God, not a son of David. Jews demand people believe a son of David is Christ. I support what Jesus said that he is not a son of David because Joseph did not beget Jesus. I do not support anyone that claims what Jesus said is not truth. Paul supports the Christ as a son of David.
Jesus COMMANDS water baptism for sin removal, Paul requires belief that the death of Jesus removes sin when it does not. The true Apostles are teachers of truth. But just like we are shown a man that claimed righteousness, the false Apostle Judas is in the Bible, other liars are also presented in the bible as examples that people will say they love Jesus when the truth is they do not. We are to learn to recognize a religious liar by comparing what Jesus said & the true Apostles present compared to what other people say. If they do not match then the other person is lying.
Paul even admits he lies so it is astonishing that people believe his doctrine doesn't have any lies in it.

 

[Triumph]

So you are another cherry picker who only uses some few verses that you can make agree with you.
Jesus agreed that he was God and called himself I AM..if that's not enough for you you are willingly blind to the truth.

Jesus exists because God created him. Jesus exists because God exists. Without a creator no one can say I AM, I exist. God always existed (I AM) but Jesus only came into existence when God created Jesus in the womb of Mary. Jesus is only some of the words of God because he does not know what they are until he is told by God the information. When Peter said be of "one mind" in 1 Peter 3:8 that means agree with the words Jesus taught as truth. Jesus is one with the words given to him to teach but that does not mean Jesus literally is God . Jesus brought the dead back to life by the power of God but Jesus did not create that life, God did. Jesus is not God and prays to God. Jesus does not pray to himself, Jesus does not worship himself.and Jesus does not want anyone else to worship him either. ALL worship is to God the Father, that granted all the God given right to life.

 

[nPeace]

You are arguing over fiction.

So some believe. I see you are one of those.

 

[Triumph]

You are arguing over fiction.

The first man was not named Adam, woman was not created out of a rib, snakes do not talk to people, this is truth if that is what you mean.
Symbolism and parables can be truth also if understood correctly. The Bible is full of stories that are not literally true unless one can understand they are
written in symbolism that explain literal things that will happen in the future. The Bible is a book of prophecy written in the past to explain the future.
People were killed for being literal with prophecy so the future is told in personification, allegory, parables and symbolism. This enabled the stories to not be destroyed before the
last generation had a chance to understand them and the meaning in prophecy is unsealed, revealed.

 

[nPeace]

I said followers of Jesus say Jesus is a Son of God, not a son of David. Jews demand people believe a son of David is Christ.

That's because the Jews know far more than you do about the Tanakh, and I am afraid that's not very commendable, since the Jews do far worst than you - rejecting even the Gospels.

Jesus is the son of David.
It says so in the very book you claim to know. Makes me wonder how you read it.

(Matthew 9:27) . . .As Jesus moved on from there, two blind men followed him, shouting out: “Have mercy on us, Son of David.”
(Matthew 20:29-34) 29 As they were going out of Jericho, a large crowd followed him. 30 And look! two blind men sitting beside the road heard that Jesus was passing by and cried out: “Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!” 31 But the crowd rebuked them, telling them to keep silent; yet they cried all the louder, saying: “Lord, have mercy on us, Son of David!” 32 So Jesus stopped, called them, and said: “What do you want me to do for you?” 33 They said to him: “Lord, let our eyes be opened.” 34 Moved with pity, Jesus touched their eyes, and immediately they recovered their sight, and they followed him.
(Matthew 15:22) . . .And look! a Phoenician woman from that region came and cried out: “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David. My daughter is cruelly demon possessed.”(Matthew 12:23-25) 23 Well, all the crowds were astounded and began to say: “May this not perhaps be the Son of David?” 24 At hearing this, the Pharisees said: “This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.” 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.

Notice that Jesus did not rebuke the crowds, who were looking for the words of the prophets to be fulfilled.

Check it out for yourself.
(Luke 1:26-33) 26 In her sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin promised in marriage to a man named Joseph of David’s house, and the name of the virgin was Mary. 28 And coming in, the angel said to her: “Greetings, you highly favored one, Jehovah is with you.” 29 But she was deeply disturbed at his words and tried to understand what kind of greeting this might be. 30 So the angel said to her: “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus.

32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.”​

Perhaps you don't like Luke by now, because he debunks every false claim you make.
A very highly honored angel said Jesus is the son of David. What more proof do we want.

(Matthew 21:15-17) 15 When the chief priests and the scribes saw the marvelous things he did and the boys who were shouting in the temple, “Save, we pray, the Son of David!” they became indignant 16 and said to him: “Do you hear what these are saying?” Jesus said to them: “Yes. Did you never read this, ‘Out of the mouth of children and infants, you have brought forth praise’?” 17 And leaving them behind, he went out of the city to Bethany and spent the night there.
(Matthew 21:9)
(Mark 11:9, 10) 9 And those going in front and those coming behind kept shouting: “Save, we pray! Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name! 10 Blessed is the coming Kingdom of our father David! Save, we pray, in the heights above!”

All in line with the scriptures.
Jesus had many occasions to correct the crowds, if they were wrong, but they weren't. He was the seed of David.
...but you don't know that, do you. Or how he is the son of David.
I totally understand.

I am bursting with curiosity about which religion you were raised in, and who taught you.
I know of some that 'go to church', and the Bible is not what they carry.

I support what Jesus said that he is not a son of David because Joseph did not beget Jesus. I do not support anyone that claims what Jesus said is not truth. Paul supports the Christ as a son of David.

Then you should not support anything you are saying, because no where in the Bible did Jesus ever, ever say he is not a son of David.
You are saying that, and if I were a gambling man, I would bet my house, all my clothing, all the food in my house, all the money on my bank account, all my shoes... what else... and my pc... that the scripture you will post does not say what you claim.

Show us the scripture where Jesus said he is not a son of David.
After that, I hope... Not going to hold my breath... that would be suicide, that you would admit that you really do not support what Jesus said. Nor any part of the Bible.

Jesus COMMANDS water baptism for sin removal,

That's funny. I read that baptism is in symbol of repentance of sins, and atonement for sins is through the blood of Christ.
I'm sure I quoted those scriptures for you.

Paul requires belief that the death of Jesus removes sin when it does not.

Paul teaches what the Bible does - Jesus blood atones for, or covers sins, thereby allowing for forgiveness of sins.

The true Apostles are teachers of truth. But just like we are shown a man that claimed righteousness, the false Apostle Judas is in the Bible, other liars are also presented in the bible as examples that people will say they love Jesus when the truth is they do not. We are to learn to recognize a religious liar by comparing what Jesus said & the true Apostles present compared to what other people say. If they do not match then the other person is lying.

Oh dear me.
Why don't you address all the posts where I showed up that nothing you say matches up with scripture?
It's obvious why you skip over these, and can't respond to them.
Do they show up any, as you put it... religious liars?

Paul even admits he lies so it is astonishing that people believe his doctrine doesn't have any lies in it.

Paul did not ever say he lies, and there is again, no scripture you can find to support that dreadfully unscriptural and false claim.
For real?

 

[nPeace]

The first man was not named Adam, woman was not created out of a rib, snakes do not talk to people, this is truth if that is what you mean.
Symbolism and parables can be truth also if understood correctly. The Bible is full of stories that are not literally true unless one can understand they are
written in symbolism that explain literal things that will happen in the future. The Bible is a book of prophecy written in the past to explain the future.
People were killed for being literal with prophecy so the future is told in personification, allegory, parables and symbolism. This enabled the stories to not be destroyed before the
last generation had a chance to understand them and the meaning in prophecy is unsealed, revealed.

So Jesus is a liar too?
(Mark 10:6-9) 6 However, from the beginning of creation, ‘He made them male and female. 7 For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother, 8 and the two will be one flesh,’ so that they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”

Do you even believe the Bible... at all. That's not a question.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So Jesus is a liar too?
(Mark 10:6-9) 6 However, from the beginning of creation, ‘He made them male and female. 7 For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother, 8 and the two will be one flesh,’ so that they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”

Do you even believe the Bible... at all. That's not a question.

This is a bit of an ironic post since creationists have to believe that God is a liar.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You did not do so after your claim of "It is obvious". By the way, why do you use the word "decide"? That implies that beliefs are irrational. That too could easily be a false accusation. When one accuses other of "deciding" one takes on a burden of proof. I could explain to you why it looks as if legend is the best answer. Do you have any evidence at all for a belief that Jesus is "Lord"?

The claim " it is obvious" was in regards to what scripture teaches. Your bait and switch isn't working. If you don't believe scripture, why are you even asking? It wasn't addressed to you or anyone who wasn't taking their cues from the Bible.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Show me where he said I AM GOD WORSHIP ME.

I don't want some verse THAT doesn't show me those words....IF he was God it would have made the entire Bible known. But he hasn't. You haven't found it-not ONE TIME...The Bible says it is not the author of confusion. So where are Jesus' words? Should be written all over the place.

I gave you Jesus' words regarding him being God. You ignored them because they weren't phrased the way you think they should be. You are like a child sticking his fingers in his ears when someone quoted scripture you don't agree with.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Jesus exists because God created him. Jesus exists because God exists. Without a creator no one can say I AM, I exist. God always existed (I AM) but Jesus only came into existence when God created Jesus in the womb of Mary.

That directly contradicts that he was there in the beginning with God and was God.
He always was. His human form is all that was new.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Jesus COMMANDS water baptism for sin removal,

No he doesn't.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Jesus brought the dead back to life by the power of God but Jesus did not create that life, God did.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome
"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

 

[MyM]

I gave you Jesus' words regarding him being God. You ignored them because they weren't phrased the way you think they should be. You are like a child sticking his fingers in his ears when someone quoted scripture you don't agree with.

Nope, If Jesus is God, show me that he called himself God.

 

[MyM]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome
"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

No matter what you said, JESUS isn't saying he's God.