Paul Didn't Know Jesus

[BilliardsBall]

It is the claim that the self appointed apostle Paul was visited by Jesus. Even if that were true, Paul, from his writings, doesn't appear to know Jesus. It doesn't appear that he knows the gospels, either, the ones dubbed John, Matthew, Luke and Mark. Here is a big example.

In 1 Corinthians 4:14-15 we see Paul refer to himself as a "father through the gospel". What gospel would that be, his letters, the tanakh? In Matthew 23:9 Jesus is reported to give a warning. To "call no man father for there is only one father and that's God."

Paul talks as one who had heard the religion and became "saved" but doesn't have the context that the Jesus appointed apostles had from walking with Jesus. Paul was even said to have "sharp disagreement" with the apostles. Acts 15:36-37. I can only speculate what that shar disagreement might have been but we know Paul was prepared to his grace through belief, a salvation for the gentiles outside the law. Paul is missing the greatest commandment and even the golden rule, doesn't really understand the core message of love that Jesus exemplified through all words and actions.

In 1 Corinthians 5:11 Paul says not even to associate with sinners which is in stark contrast to the Jesus "he without sin cast the first stone" and the Jesus who ate with sinners. Mark 2:13-17.

Too many red flags from Paul in my view. Thoughts or objections?

If Paul didn't know Jesus:

* whom was Paul hearing from when He was in Heaven, hearing inexpressible words?
* why did he take the 39 lashes FIVE times, for whom?
* why was he included in the Acts 15 council?
* etc., etc., etc.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Yeah, liberals support treating the sick, feeding the hungry, and helping the poor, what do conservatives say???

Conservatives say, by helping the poor out of Proverty and then the poor can help themselves.By working for themselves.

As for feeding the hungry, You feed them, and then they can feed themselves by working for themselves and not relying on anyone else or the Government to keep feeding them.

As Democrate President JFK said back when he was running for president in 1961,
"Ask not what your Country can do for you,
But ask what you can do for your Country.

That means not relying on Government Support or anyone else. But doing for yourself.
But as it is to day the democratic party has gone alway from what the democratic party use to be. And got people relying on the Government just for their votes. That's the democratic Party of to day.

 

[wizanda]

whom was Paul hearing from when He was in Heaven, hearing inexpressible words?

Paul wasn't in Heaven; he knew someone who had visited the third Heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2).

Plus Paul hearing voices, is like many schizophrenics who hear demons....

Proof of that is Paul's statements; if an angel comes and teaches another gospel may they be accursed (Galatians 1:8)...

If the angel is sent by God; Paul can only be a demon challenging that he is superior.

Paul also makes claims that angels of light did come to him asking him to stop, and yet he claims the light is darkness (2 Corinthians 11:14)...

Throughout a majority of texts angels appear as light, demons as darkness.

In my opinion.

 

[metis]

That means not relying on Government Support or anyone else. But doing for yourself.

Every single country in the world well knows that not everyone is in that position, especially under capitalism whereas there will always be unemployment because of the nature of the system, which is why every single country has some sort of "safety net".

BTW, what did Jesus say in the Sermon On the Mount about this? How about his Parable of the Sheep & Goats? And Jesus well knew that helping the poor was mandated in the Law, and he never said one thing to undermine that obligation to help the poor, and as a matter of fact he doubled-down on it (Parable of the Widow's Mite).

 

[idav]

Had you any idea or clue what Paul is talking about, but since you don't.

What Paul is talking about in
1st Cor 4:14-15, is a Spiritual rebirth,
Like being born again.

So in 1st Cor 4:15--"For though you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, For in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel"

Notice the word ( begotten ) In the Greek translation of the Strong's Concordance 1080, This means Paul has ( regenerated )
( delivered ) ( Procreated ) them through the gospel of Christ Jesus. Meaning a spiritual rebirth, being born again through the gospel of Christ Jesus, by the Spirit of the word of God.

Even Peter wrote about being born again by the Spirit of the word of God,
In 1 Peter 1:22-23--"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"

Therefore Paul through the gospel of Christ Jesus people were having a Spiritual rebirth through the gospel of Christ Jesus, Being born again by the Spirit of the word of God.

Therefore before you Quote someone or something, you should get to the root of a word to see what is actually being said and done.

I understand the concept being reborn in spirit none of which need anything to do with being begotten through Paul.

 

[idav]

If Paul didn't know Jesus:

* whom was Paul hearing from when He was in Heaven, hearing inexpressible words?
* why did he take the 39 lashes FIVE times, for whom?
* why was he included in the Acts 15 council?
* etc., etc., etc.

Paul was spreading the religion without the experience, he was possibly spreading it theologically sound, while taking some things more literal than Jesus meant with his parables and metaphors from the gospels. You know like all the things other apostles wrote, gospel of john, gospel of Thomas .....

 

[Phantasman]

Yeah, liberals support treating the sick, feeding the hungry, and helping the poor, what do conservatives say???

Perspective. The government does it as a percentage of forced tax. Jesus did it from the heart, at no cost, as churches do. I see the liberal ideology side not adhering to "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime".

No body gives more to the poor than the Christian ideology (churches). A body that is mainly conservative and under attack through the ideas of the new liberal left. It is this "new" thought that that "attorneys" of liberal ideology is redefining the Church as a danger to Constitutional rational, when it was clearly founded on those principles.

Nothing more than the Spirit of error and ignorance influencing the Spirit of Truth. Paul warned us not to follow worldly governors.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, and against the worldly governors, the princes of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness, which are in the highplaces.

Note: The words I have in bold appear in the 1599 Geneva Bible before being removed by King James priests to not affect his power, before the KJV came some decade or so later.

 

[Phantasman]

Paul wasn't in Heaven; he knew someone who had visited the third Heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2).

Plus Paul hearing voices, is like many schizophrenics who hear demons....

Proof of that is Paul's statements; if an angel comes and teaches another gospel may they be accursed (Galatians 1:8)...

If the angel is sent by God; Paul can only be a demon challenging that he is superior.

Paul also makes claims that angels of light did come to him asking him to stop, and yet he claims the light is darkness (2 Corinthians 11:14)...

Throughout a majority of texts angels appear as light, demons as darkness.

In my opinion.

That IS the orthodox teaching. Gnosis teaches that "light" is truth (through spiritual understanding) and "darkness" is error (through spiritual ignorance). Galatians 1 is Paul saying to no longer follow angels, as the Jews did (reference Acts 7 exposing angels). The omnipresent Holy Spirit given by the Father after Jesus was glorified made angels obsolete, so to speak. The Holy Spirit leads man to "all truth", and we no longer depend on "voices of angels".

 

[wizanda]

we no longer depend on "voices of angels".

Yeah this criminal friend of mine also said, we no longer need to communicate with the police to know what the Law is, as he has it all sorted.

In my opinion.

 

[Phantasman]

Paul was spreading the religion without the experience, he was possibly spreading it theologically sound, while taking some things more literal than Jesus meant with his parables and metaphors from the gospels. You know like all the things other apostles wrote, gospel of john, gospel of Thomas .....

Considering that Thomas is the only self proclaimed Gospel author.

Paul taught the Gentiles. He didn't need the OT to teach those who never knew it to begin with. The synoptics had to convert the Jews with as much "kid glove" handling as they could. Converting the Hebrew to Christianity was much harder than causing the Gentiles to see Christ. Breaking bad habits.

Jesus appeared to all. Yet it were the Hebrews that gave him the most trouble, as they did Paul as well.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Every single country in the world well knows that not everyone is in that position, especially under capitalism whereas there will always be unemployment because of the nature of the system, which is why every single country has some sort of "safety net".

BTW, what did Jesus say in the Sermon On the Mount about this? How about his Parable of the Sheep & Goats? And Jesus well knew that helping the poor was mandated in the Law, and he never said one thing to undermine that obligation to help the poor, and as a matter of fact he doubled-down on it (Parable of the Widow's Mite).

The only thing Christ Jesus said about the poor in the sermon on the mount was in Matthew 5:3 " Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"

This can be anyone who is poor in spirit.

Christ Jesus did not say, Blessed are the poor in Proverty.No

Christ Jesus said, Blessed are the poor in spirit, and that can be anyone who is poor in spirit.

As for the widow, she wasn't that poor, to give what she had, she gave more than those who had it to give, But didn't.

Why was she poor, because her husband either died or killed in some way or another.
That's why women are called widows. Which left her with very little means to support herself.
But yet she still, had enough to support herself, to get by on.

If a person is poor, but yet there are jobs, then that means, they are not poor, but to lazy to work for a living.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I understand the concept being reborn in spirit none of which need anything to do with being begotten through Paul.

Maybe you need to define what begotten means in the Greek translation

 

[Lyndon]

Republicans have no heart, they only care about themselves and their rich friends.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Republicans have no heart, they only care about themselves and their rich friends.

So thats why democrates abused women because they care so much. ROFL

 

[Lyndon]

Trump raped a 13 year old, Moore molested a 14 year old, Franken just grabbed someones butt

 

[Faithofchristian]

Trump raped a 13 year old, Moore molested a 14 year old, Franken just grabbed someones butt

There's been no proof of that. A person is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.
But yet many Liberal democrates are being called to step down out of their political office, By other Liberal democrates.Whats up with all that.
There's 10 democrate women that are calling for democrate Senator Al Franklin to step down. Because of his abuse to women.Whats up with all that Go Figure

Your democratic Party is totally falling apart, over one Scandal after another Scandal.

Totally no Respect for women.

 

[metis]

The only thing Christ Jesus said about the poor in the sermon on the mount was in Matthew 5:3 " Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"

This can be anyone who is poor in spirit.

Christ Jesus did not say, Blessed are the poor in Proverty.No

Well, let's see:
Matthew 5[40] and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well;
[41] and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
[42] Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you.

Matthew 6[2]"Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
[3] But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
[4] so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. [I hope you know what "alms" are]

Matthew 7[9] Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?
[10] Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? [11] If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
[12] So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

As for the widow, she wasn't that poor, to give what she had, she gave more than those who had it to give, But didn't.

Luke.21
[1]He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury;
[2] and he saw a poor widow put in two copper coins.
[3] And he said, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them;
[4] for they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all the living that she had."

The treasury in part helped the poor and widows, and what Jesus basically was saying is that we may have to go beyond just the tithing that was required by Jewish Law.

If a person is poor, but yet there are jobs, then that means, they are not poor, but to lazy to work for a living.

Most of the poor here in the states are commonly referred to as "working poor", namely those who have jobs but still live below the poverty line. What you have spouted above is just a hideous and unchristian stereotype of the poor. If everyone here had a ph.d. and was seeking a job, we would still have some families that are poor.

[continued]

 

[metis]

Now for the Parable of the Sheep & Goats:
Matthew 25[32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
[33] and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
[34] Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
[35] for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
[36] I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'
[37] Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
[38] And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
[39] And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?'
[40] And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'
[41] Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
[42] for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
[43] I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
[44] Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?'
[45] Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.'
[46] And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Now notice the parts that are underlined and in red, and also notice that the "Goats" believe about Jesus but not in him.

Also, these are not the only references to helping the poor, so I'll supply you with a listing and wording from the NT that have the word "poor" in them: Bible, Revised Standard Version

 

[metis]

There's been no proof of that. A person is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.

Voting is not a "court of law", so one in a situation like this is stuck trying to decide which sources are more believable: these women who have nothing to gain from lying or Moore who has a record of dishonesty, which is why he was removed twice as judge, as well as having a record of following around young teens when he was in his 30's. Are you really willing to put a person like that into our national senate? Do you believe Jesus would really want you do do this by taking such a chance on someone with his record?

 

[Phantasman]

The only thing Christ Jesus said about the poor in the sermon on the mount was in Matthew 5:3 " Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"

This can be anyone who is poor in spirit.

Christ Jesus did not say, Blessed are the poor in Proverty.No

Christ Jesus said, Blessed are the poor in spirit, and that can be anyone who is poor in spirit.

As for the widow, she wasn't that poor, to give what she had, she gave more than those who had it to give, But didn't.

Why was she poor, because her husband either died or killed in some way or another.
That's why women are called widows. Which left her with very little means to support herself.
But yet she still, had enough to support herself, to get by on.

If a person is poor, but yet there are jobs, then that means, they are not poor, but to lazy to work for a living.

Confusing physical poverty and spiritual poverty. The rich man chose spiritual poverty. Thinking the physical "law of Moses" was his key. Jesus taught him different. It has nothing to do with material possessions, which the world bases wealth. To gain the world and lose your soul, is spiritual poverty. You know your true wealth through spiritual understanding, not as the world see's wealth.

Gospel of Thomas:
(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

The orthodox church is in spiritual poverty, yet wealthy in the world, just as the priests (Pharisee's) were. This was not Jesus or Paul (teachings and examples).

The Christian who knows how poor his spirit truly is (compared to God), gains the "grace" (tolerance) of the loving Father. Those who think they "know God" and "dictate his will", are the ones who need to self examine........spiritually.

Just my conclusion. But I'm always open to debate through all avenues.