Paul on Women, Sex and Dress

[BummerBeavis]

They were accepted:
show me where they said he was an apostle! He was also accepted into other churches where he murdered people! There were 12 apostles not 13. the apostles chose Mathias and made special notice of his appointment to apostleship. NEVER DID THEY DO THIS WITH THAT MURDERER PAUL
Acts 15:1-41 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." (2) And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question. (3) So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers. (4) When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. (5) But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses." (6) The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. (7) And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. (8) And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, (9) and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. (10) Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? (11) But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will." (12) And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. (13) After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brothers, listen to me. (14) Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. (15) And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written, (16) "'After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, (17) that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things (18) known from of old.' (19) Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, (20) but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. (21) For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues." (22) Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, (23) with the following letter: "The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. (24) Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, (25) it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, (26) men who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. (27) We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. (28) For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: (29) that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell." (30) So when they were sent off, they went down to Antioch, and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter. (31) And when they had read it, they rejoiced because of its encouragement. (32) And Judas and Silas, who were themselves prophets, encouraged and strengthened the brothers with many words. (33) And after they had spent some time, they were sent off in peace by the brothers to those who had sent them. (34) [But it seemed good to Silas to remain there.] (35) But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also. (36) And after some days Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us return and visit the brothers in every city where we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are." (37) Now Barnabas wanted to take with them John called Mark. (38) But Paul thought best not to take with them one who had withdrawn from them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. (39) And there arose a sharp disagreement, so that they separated from each other. Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus, (40) but Paul chose Silas and departed, having been commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. (41) And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

 

[BummerBeavis]

By the way. Did Paul actually do what James commanded and spread the word to gentiles concerning the 4 provisions stated in Acts 15?

Answer…no!

9and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10They only asked us to remember the poor—the very thing I also was eager to do. Galatians 2: 9-10

What a lie! No wonder James says this to Paul before he was thrown in prison:

“You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22“What, then, is to be done?They will certainly hear that you have come. 23“Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law. 25“But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.” Acts 21: 20-25

Not only that, the 11 apostles made notice to all of us that they chose Mathias to replace Judas not Paul

 

[Simplelogic]

Why does he have to be an apostle ? Why does that have to be mentioned by someone else?He was accepted by the brothers in Yerushalaim!

You have just painted yourself into a corner my friend. Paul claims to be an actual apostle MANY times. He even goes so far as to claim to be "the most eminent of apostles".

"For I consider that I am not at all inferior to the most eminent apostles". ...."As the truth of Christ is in me, no one shall stop me from this boasting in the regions of Achaia." 2 Corinthians 11:5,10

"For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all...". 1Corinthians 15:9,10

Aside from the fact that it was a lie to suggest the ministry had been split up between Jews and Gentiles ...as though he had exclusive rights to the Gentiles and the 12 were to stay with the Jews..., Paul even had the gall to condescend specifically on Peter, James, and John when he belittled them to the Galatians.

"But from those who seemed to be something - whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man- for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), and when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised." Galatians 2:6,7,9

This is nothing but an arrogant lie. A couple verses later, Paul takes another cheap-shot at Peter. With Peter nowhere around to defend himself, Paul brags to the Galatians how he had determined Peter was a hypocrite, and how he had put him down before the entire church of Antioch.

"But when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews played the hypocrite with him so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straight forward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peterbefore them all, "if you being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?" Galatians 2:11-14

Earlier, in Galatians 1:8,9, Paul commanded his followers to consider "accursed" anyone who preaches a different gospel than his. There is little doubt that Paul wanted the Galatians to think this way toward Peter, if not James, and John as well. It is obvious to anyone reading the book of Galatians that Paul was demanding the Galatian church follow no one but him, not even the original apostles back in Jerusalem.

 

[Simplelogic]

Not only that, the 11 apostles made notice to all of us that they chose Mathias to replace Judas not Paul

It should also be noted why Matthias was chosen:

Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

 

[BummerBeavis]

It should also be noted why Matthias was chosen:

Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

yep thank you for you great response. I have my hands full of pizza covered with ghost peppers so its kinda hard to type good at the moment.

 

[Simplelogic]

Ahhh. Its finally quiet!

 

[BummerBeavis]

Ahhh. Its finally quiet!

i am ready. Man Ghost peppers are hot! so what do you say to those who think God is now a Trinity?

 

[Simplelogic]

i am ready. Man Ghost peppers are hot! so what do you say to those who think God is now a Trinity?

I laugh

 

[Simplelogic]

You may appreciate this link on how I view Yeshua. It was written by a close friend of mine:

Who is Yeshua

 

[Ingledsva]

How delightful! Are you a farmer[ess] then?

Some of them were yes, but those that followed, no, which I would have thought was plainly obvious.

Paul met the lord whether you care to admit it or not. There is also spiritual discernment which you also seem to neglect to mention. Perhaps you are not even aware of it, which would explain much if so.

Afraid of Paul? No! He went to Yerusalaim, have you fogotten and saw the apostles. Just because some there did not agree, so what. That will always be the case, it does not make him wrong or a liar. There will always be differences in teaching, it is the main core that does not alter.


Says a one eyed woman... haha



The finishing school shut was it?

So what?

That is the nature of Man. That is why we are here. And yet, for all this remonstating, it is YOU, who seems to be advocating women killing in the battle field as well. A hypocritical stance perhaps.



Until ''all is fulfilled''. Do you know when it was fulfilled? Do you know why there was a change in the law?

You know because scripture tells you. If you are not going to accept that part then you cannot accept any of it. If that is the case, how can you argue any of it?

He had a vision, not ''claim'' a vision. He taught as he was taught be the lord himself. Paul did not teach Hell, even though you seem to atribute it to him, seeing this is the post you remonstate about.
Hell is only a fleeting moment.


I hope you were looking in a mirror when you said that, because if you weren't, you should have been. Puttin LOL in big letters and colouring words does not make you right, even if it keeps you ammused.

There is no proof of anything Saul/Paul says! You can go on and on - but it changes nothing.

He CLAIMS a vision of Jesus - takes over from people with direct, and passed-on teaching, - and we end up with different ideas and Pagan religion added in to Jesus' movement. And a Rome connection.

Paul actually diverted Jesus' Religion.

*

 

[Simplelogic]

There is no proof of anything Saul/Paul says! You can go on and on - but it changes nothing.

He CLAIMS a vision of Jesus - takes over from people with direct, and passed-on teaching, - and we end up with different ideas and Pagan religion added in to Jesus' movement. And a Rome connection.

Paul actually diverted Jesus' Religion.

*

Man….I disagree with you so much but you are absolutely right here. Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day!!

 

[BummerBeavis]

You may appreciate this link on how I view Yeshua. It was written by a close friend of mine:

Who is Yeshua

i am reading it now. what do you think about the Babylonian religion?

 

[Robert.Evans]

You have just painted yourself into a corner my friend. Paul claims to be an actual apostle MANY times. He even goes so far as to claim to be "the most eminent of apostles".

I have done no such thing.

"For I consider that I am not at all inferior to the most eminent apostles". ...."As the truth of Christ is in me, no one shall stop me from this boasting in the regions of Achaia." 2 Corinthians 11:5,10

"For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all...". 1Corinthians 15:9,10

I was not the one saying he was not an apostle.All I was asking is why should it be that he has to be called it by someone else.

Aside from the fact that it was a lie to suggest the ministry had been split up between Jews and Gentiles ...as though he had exclusive rights to the Gentiles and the 12 were to stay with the Jews..., Paul even had the gall to condescend specifically on Peter, James, and John when he belittled them to the Galatians.

I don't think he so much mean that it was his territory, but it made sense if there were to be differences, which there were, Acts 15 confirming that as does Galatians

"But from those who seemed to be something - whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man- for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), and when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised." Galatians 2:6,7,9

''Those who seemed to be something'' was not talking about the apostles. The ending of the same quote confirms it, a passage I have already given. It says quite clearly that they gave them the rigt hand of fellowship. . They even agreed on who went to who.

This is nothing but an arrogant lie. A couple verses later, Paul takes another cheap-shot at Peter. With Peter nowhere around to defend himself, Paul brags to the Galatians how he had determined Peter was a hypocrite, and how he had put him down before the entire church of Antioch.

"But when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews played the hypocrite with him so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straight forward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peterbefore them all, "if you being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?" Galatians 2:11-14

Because Peter was influenced by those supposed 'superapostles' (who were not the real apostles)

Earlier, in Galatians 1:8,9, Paul commanded his followers to consider "accursed" anyone who preaches a different gospel than his.

A false gospel yes.

There is little doubt that Paul wanted the Galatians to think this way toward Peter, if not James, and John as well. It is obvious to anyone reading the book of Galatians that Paul was demanding the Galatian church follow no one but him, not even the original apostles back in Jerusalem.

He also says in Corinthians that: '' is Christ divided? Did Paul die for you'' etc. It was not Paul that was crucified. What he preached was Christ crucified. What is the problem with that? I see none.

It is interesting that you and B are using text which you do not consider to he the word of God, and using it as it is. I would have thought that if it was just made up, Paul would have recalled what was said in Yerushalaim with the letter from the council. Yet he does not mention it. Now I might comment on that, as I say it is the word of God. But if you are saying it is merely the comments of a man, then who is to say he would write it one way or another?

Nevertheless, I think you did bring up some good points (eventually..haha). Consider this: what if there were two Messiahs? The Essenes were expecting two, not one. One was to be a lay and one a priestly. If that is the case, we have the priestly at Yerushalaim and the lay at Rome with the Gentiles. As such there can be a division in the law and in the Mashiyach himself. Then the question of Paul, ''is Christ divided'' would make sense, because he would have been.

So that is how I see the differences you point out. Two laws effectively, one for spiritual Jews and one for Gentiles.

You bring up another interesting point, (back it up if you can). And that is, when they sinned in the Mosaic law, so long as they repent, they were forgiven. But that always was followed by a sacrifice, right? Are sacrifice is the saviour. But he died once (for all). Thus he cannot be sacrificed many times over. This means that that we cannot just keep on sinning and asking for fogiveness and think it is excepted, does it not?

So it is important that we keep the law, I agree.

But you still cannot say that Paul is a liar. He is not. He brought an easier to swallow law to the Gentiles, in order to ''save but some''. That has to be good doesn't it?!

 

[Robert.Evans]

There is no proof of anything Saul/Paul says! You can go on and on - but it changes nothing.

No proof? It is the word of God! It is Scripture! If you don't accept that, why accept any of it? Paul had people who travelled with him at times. They would have witnessed it. Do you not think they would have spoken out?

He CLAIMS a vision of Jesus

Of which there were people there with him, in a book written by Luke.

- takes over from people with direct, and passed-on teaching,

Being with the Essenes, he met the lord after his crucifixion whether you care to accept that or not. But I ask, why is it that he has to meet him personally in the flesh anyway? Is God not powerful enough to let us see without such personal contact. ''Blessed are those who believe and have not seen''.

- and we end up with different ideas and Pagan religion added in to Jesus' movement. And a Rome connection.

Paul actually diverted Jesus' Religion.

*

He gave a version of the law that the divine council at Yerushalaim agreed on. They listened to him for a long time, and he listened to them. The Gentiles always had concessions given them, as they had in the OT Mosaic law.

 

[Ingledsva]

He who does not love his brother does not belong to the lord..... what of that? Now you will say Paul, who was accepted in Acts 15 by the council at Yerushalaim is not your brother. You should think again.

And why just the 10.
What of the other laws?
Do you still sacrifice to a temple you can't get to and doesn't exist?

Actually he is allowed in to speak, and apparently manages to befuddle - some - of them, as they give him letters allowing him to speak to the other groups. A fast-talker working his way through the different Jesus groups.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Act 9:21 But all that heard him wondered, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
Act 9:22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
Act 9:23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:

Act 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
Act 9:27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.

Act 9:29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians/Hellenists: and they went about to slay him.

Those Greek speaking Jews were Hellenists - Jewish converts to Christianity, that returned to Judea.

Very obviously CHRISTIANS and Disciples didn't trust him, and didn't think he was a true Disciple, and wanted to kill him for his blasphemy.

And no people today have to accept the - vision on the road - crap. They very obviously can challenge Saul/Paul the murderer.

He fights among the groups, calling anything HE doesn't teach - as evil. He boasts of himself above the Disciples.


2Co 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
2Co 10:9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.
2Co 10:10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.
2Co 10:11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.


2Co 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
2Co 10:16 To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.


2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Co 11:5 For I conclude/think I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. (Boasting and CLAIMING to be on a level with the CHIEF Apostles.)
2Co 11:6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

2Co 11:16 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.

2Co 11:22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

I will look for the other places he comes into contention with the real Disciples later.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Did anyone notice the UFO encounter in Acts 10?

Acts 10:11 And he saw the sky open up, and descended to rest near him, a kind of vessel, like as unto a giant sail with four attached corners, which then lowered to rest upon the ground.


Acts 10:12 Within there were every kind of quadruped of the earth, and also the wild beasts, and tiny creeping things, and the birds of the air.

*

 

[BummerBeavis]

you are 100% correct. this is one reason i left the so called christian religion. these churches are leading people to hell and it started with Paul. Also Paul called himself "a wise master builder" in the bible the masons were called the builders. now most of the entire religion business is run by mason hirelings asking money for god and putting it in their pockets. their churches have the Babylonian phallus of the sun god Baal on them as well. they call it a steeple.

 

[Simplelogic]

I have done no such thing.

I was not the one saying he was not an apostle.All I was asking is why should it be that he has to be called it by someone else.

You did though:

Actually he is allowed in to speak, and apparently manages to befuddle - some - of them, as they give him letters allowing him to speak to the other groups. A fast-talker working his way through the different Jesus groups.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Act 9:21 But all that heard him wondered, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
Act 9:22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
Act 9:23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:

Act 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
Act 9:27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.

Act 9:29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians/Hellenists: and they went about to slay him.

Those Greek speaking Jews were Hellenists - Jewish converts to Christianity, that returned to Judea.

Very obviously CHRISTIANS and Disciples didn't trust him, and didn't think he was a true Disciple, and wanted to kill him for his blasphemy.

And no people today have to accept the - vision on the road - crap. They very obviously can challenge Saul/Paul the murderer.

He fights among the groups, calling anything HE doesn't teach - as evil. He boasts of himself above the Disciples.


2Co 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
2Co 10:9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.
2Co 10:10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.
2Co 10:11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.


2Co 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
2Co 10:16 To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.


2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Co 11:5 For I conclude/think I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. (Boasting and CLAIMING to be on a level with the CHIEF Apostles.)
2Co 11:6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

2Co 11:16 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.

2Co 11:22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

I will look for the other places he comes into contention with the real Disciples later.

*

Well said. There is really so many atrocious examples to give of Paul's lunacy.

Which reminds me...didn't Yeshua say to not listen to those who say they have met him in the "wilderness"? Hey wasn't the road to Damascus a wilderness? Also didn't Yeshua say that when he returns "every eye will see him?"

 

[Ingledsva]

No proof? It is the word of God! It is Scripture! If you don't accept that, why accept any of it? Paul had people who travelled with him at times. They would have witnessed it. Do you not think they would have spoken out?

ING - This scripture - as has already been pointed out by others - is not proof of anything.
*

Of which there were people there with him, in a book written by Luke.

ING - Luke - his companion - is the only person - besides HIMSELF - to call him an Apostle.

*

Being with the Essenes, he met the lord after his crucifixion whether you care to accept that or not. But I ask, why is it that he has to meet him personally in the flesh anyway? Is God not powerful enough to let us see without such personal contact. ''Blessed are those who believe and have not seen''.

ING - NOPE! All you have is his word in a book that he had a vision. NO PROOF!

Those whom believe and have not seen - are not taking over the new Christian order - and twisting - and adding to it.
*

He gave a version of the law that the divine council at Yerushalaim agreed on. They listened to him for a long time, and he listened to them. The Gentiles always had concessions given them, as they had in the OT Mosaic law.

Click to expand His -

I have shown that this was NOT smooth. There was contention among many of the Christian groups and what Saul/Paul was teaching. Some of those CHRISTIANS wanted to kill him for what he was doing.

*

 

[Robert.Evans]

Actually he is allowed in to speak, and apparently manages to befuddle - some - of them, as they give him letters allowing him to speak to the other groups. A fast-talker working his way through the different Jesus groups.

He was accepted by the council in Acts 15. What more is there to say.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Act 9:21 But all that heard him wondered, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
Act 9:22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
Act 9:23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:

Act 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
Act 9:27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.

Act 9:29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians/Hellenists: and they went about to slay him.

Those Greek speaking Jews were Hellenists - Jewish converts to Christianity, that returned to Judea.

Very obviously CHRISTIANS and Disciples didn't trust him, and didn't think he was a true Disciple, and wanted to kill him for his blasphemy.

There were no such thing as Christians then, only follows of the lord. Don't get mixed up with the later Church CC. To kill was to excommunicate.

And no people today have to accept the - vision on the road - crap. They very obviously can challenge Saul/Paul the murderer.

If you don't accept the vision when the LORD HIMSELF spoke to him, then you will accept nothing.

He fights among the groups, calling anything HE doesn't teach - as evil. He boasts of himself above the Disciples.

He did not call other ideas evil. He mentioned about an ''unknown god''

2Co 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
2Co 10:9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.
2Co 10:10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.

''contemptible''?? I think that is not a good rendition.

2Co 10:11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

2Co 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
2Co 10:16 To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Simplicity that is in Christ! where is the confusion? It is of your making not Paul's.

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Co 11:5 For I conclude/think I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. (Boasting and CLAIMING to be on a level with the CHIEF Apostles.)
2Co 11:6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

what version are you reading from? It is not good.

2Co 11:16 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.

2Co 11:22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool)

''I speak as a fool''.. therefore he is not boasting as such, merely pointing out he can do the things that others claim. He has not boasted in the past, and now some are looking for a bigger personality, rather than the 'simplicity' found in Christ.

I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

An example of how he suffered to preach the word, the word that we now benefit from as it moved to the CC.

I will look for the other places he comes into contention with the real Disciples later.

*

''real disciples'' That is nonsense. The lord himself accepted him. If you refuse to believe that, then you refuse the word of the lord.
I have already given evidence that they accepted him in Acts for one, written by Luke; not that it matters who writes it (as some claim) as anyone can claim anything.