Ok, I bring the verses says that obeying Jesus' teachings are requirement for salvation.
thanks.
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Paul's teachings.
- Thread starter Meshak
- Start date
Ok, I bring the verses says that obeying Jesus' teachings are requirement for salvation.
thanks.
Here you go:
Keeping His commandments are requirement for salvation.
He are the verses to support my claim:
1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
If you love Me, keep My commandments.
2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.
3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Fathers commandments and abide in His love.
4. Acts 15:24
◦New King James Version
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised and keep the law to whom we gave no such commandment)
5. 1 Corinthians 7:19
◦New King James Version
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
6. 1 Timothy 6:14
◦New King James Version
that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christs appearing,
7. 1 John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
8. 1 John 2:4
◦New King James Version
He who says, I know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
9. 1 John 3:22
◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
10. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
11. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
12. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
13. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
14. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten commandments as requirement.
Matthew 19:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life? 17 Why do you ask me about what is good? Jesus replied. There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.
18 Which ones? he inquired.
Jesus replied, You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,[a] and love your neighbor as yourself.
Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
I hope you become Jesus' servant.
It will change your life completely for the better if you strive to obey all His teachings.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Of these 16 examples, only 5 may be considered Jesus' teaching. And 2 of them are explicitly Paul's teaching, which you said conflicts with Jesus' teaching.
Additionally, the first three examples don't speak to "keeping of commandments required for salvation."
Lastly, the final example simply does not speak to "commandment-keeping at all."
Of these 16 examples, only 5 may be considered Jesus' teaching. And 2 of them are explicitly Paul's teaching, which you said conflicts with Jesus' teaching.
Nope, they are all Jesus' teachings. You got it all backwards. It seems your Lord is Paul, not Jesus.
Jesus is the Lord, not Paul.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
I think you may be misunderstanding Paul.
Paul establishes that the mosaic law is no longer the way to salvation....Jesus is the way to salvation and putting faith in him is what is acceptable to God.
Can you show some of the verses where you think Paul is promoting mosaic law over faith?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Hmmm... Let's double-check:
1. John 14:15
Here's a quotation of Jesus that could be considered a teaching.
2. John 14:21
Here's another quotation of Jesus that could be considered a teaching.
3. John 15:10
Same here.
4. Acts 15:24
Woops! This isn't a quotation of Jesus, so, not strictly a "Jesus teaching."
5. 1 Corinthians 7:19
This is Paul
6. 1 Timothy 6:14
This is Paul
7. 1 John 2:3
8. 1 John 2:4
9. 1 John 3:22
10. 1 John 3:24
11. 1 John 5:2
12. 1 John 5:3
All of these are John, and not quotations of Jesus; therefore, not strictly "Jesus teachings.
13. Revelation 12:17
14. Revelation 14:12
These are also not quotations of Jesus.
Matthew 19:16-19
Matthew 3:10
These from Matthew are quotations from Jesus.
Nope. My previous statement stands. The preponderance of these come from quotations or writings other than those of Jesus and so may not be considered to be strictly Jesus' teachings, but rather the teachings of the writers.
Paul reestablished legalism where as Jesus did not teach it at all.
Shermana
Heretic
Jesus was all about Legalism.
Anyone who teaches to break the least of the commandments shall be called the least in the Kingdom.
Sounds pretty legalistic.
Jesus' teachings are all about love, it is not legalism.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
outhouse
Atheistically
I agree Paul didnt teach what Jesus taught, we really honestly dont know to much about what exactly Jesus taught.
We have a idea from sayings like from Q and Thomas, but even then we are not too certain and can just hope.
Paul however, we know exactly what he taught because he could write and left us his verion of the movement which matches the Hellenistic Proselytes teachings, not that of Jewish peasant from Galilee teaching and healing for the poor oppressed people in small villages suffering under Roman occupation.
You know very well Paul instructed how to worship God. That is why main streamers and JWs insist on having the organization.
Paul seems to led Jesus' followers with his own ideas. It is according to Paul, not according to Jesus.
Jesus taught us how to follow HIm clearly and simply in His sermons and preachings..
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
well from what i've read of Pauls letters (and that is all of them over and over many times) i hear him telling jews that they no longer depend on works of law but rather faith in Christ.
here are some examples:
Galatians 3:7 Surely YOU know that those who adhere to faith are the ones who are sons of Abraham. 8 Now the Scripture, seeing in advance that God would declare people of the nations righteous due to faith, declared the good news beforehand to Abraham, namely: By means of you all the nations will be blessed. 9 Consequently those who adhere to faith are being blessed together with faithful Abraham.
Romans 4:16 On this account it was as a result of faith, that it might be according to undeserved kindness, in order for the promise to be sure to all his seed, not only to that which adheres to the Law, but also to that which adheres to the faith of Abraham.
Romans 3:21 But now apart from law Gods righteousness has been made manifest, as it is borne witness to by the Law and the Prophets; 22 yes, Gods righteousness through the faith in Jesus Christ, for all those having faith. For there is no distinction. 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom [paid] by Christ Jesus.
Ephesisans 2:8 By this undeserved kindness, indeed, YOU have been saved through faith; and this not owing to YOU, it is Gods gift. 9 No, it is not owing to works, in order that no man should have ground for boasting
Paul speaks time and time again that faith is what grants salvation....and it is, as he calls it, a free gift of undeserved kindness.
I just dont know what scriptures you are using to come to the conclusion that Paul demands obedience to works of law for salvation.... i just dont know.
Yes but he contradicted himself with ritualistic worshiping which Jesus did not say anything about.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Where? Do you have any verses you can direct me to where he says this???
where did you get the idea to have organization? That will answer your own question, friend.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
we dont need Pauls writings to give us the idea that congregating together for worship is Gods will...
Deuteronomy 31:12 Congregate the people, the men and the women and the little ones and your alien resident who is within your gates, in order that they may listen and in order that they may learn, as they must fear Jehovah YOUR God and take care to carry out all the words of this law.
Matthew 18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.
Acts 2:42 And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to sharing [with one another], to taking of meals and to prayers.
Acts 20:8 So there were quite a few lamps in the upper chamber where we were gathered together.
Christians were gathering together for worship before Paul had even converted. So it wasnt because of Paul, i can assure you of that.
Shermana
Heretic
I don't see how teachings about love that explicitly demand obedience to the commandments wouldn't be considered legalism. The word "love" is quite often flung around when discussing Jesus's teachings as if you can just ignore 99% of what he actually says as long as you focus on "love", with whatever "love" means.
Jesus said if you don't help your brothers in need, you'll burn in hell, quite plainly in Matthew 25. Is that not legalistic?
Maybe you have an interpretation of Matthew 5:19 that you'd like to share.