Penguin pulls book by Doniger

[Maya3]

Controversial Book, 'The Hindus', By Religious Scholar Wendy Doniger Withdrawn By Penguin Over Lawsuit

Your thoughts?

Maya

 

[Asha]

I have only one thing to say


Please Penguin withdraw this book everywhere now .

If you want to publish books on Hinduism please Print works by respected Practicing Hindu authors .

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Controversial Book, 'The Hindus', By Religious Scholar Wendy Doniger Withdrawn By Penguin Over Lawsuit

Your thoughts?

Maya

Two implications.

1) By stating the reason for the removal as a lawsuit, there is going to be a assumption that the "Hindutva right", has been involved and have muscled their power to pressure the publisher. No one will believe that the book itself was un-scholarly or that the content undermines Hinduism and presents a distorted view of Hinduism and its history. This is probably the most likely assumption.

2) By removal only in India, implication 1 is strengthened.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Don't worry, there will always be Wendy Donigers and Dr. Zakir Naiks. We have to live with them. Penguin is at fault otherwise it would not have agreed to such a settlement.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

I've not read this book, but what I have read by Doniger doesn't inspire much respect for her. But surely we can deal with false or disrespectful books by rational argument? For India to ban a book may not be as bad as the typical Muslim response (i.e. call for the murder of the author as a blasphemer) but it's unworthy.

 

[Poeticus]

I've not read this book, but what I have read by Doniger doesn't inspire much respect for her. But surely we can deal with false or disrespectful books by rational argument? For India to ban a book may not be as bad as the typical Muslim response (i.e. call for the murder of the author as a blasphemer) but it's unworthy.

The book wasn't banned. Instead, it was pulled back by the publisher. It's still available on the Internet in e-book format for purchase.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but what I have read by Doniger doesn't inspire much respect for her. .. For India to ban a book may not be as bad as the typical Muslim response (i.e. call for the murder of the author as a blasphemer) but it's unworthy.

I agree. We have a diverse society including 15% muslims and we have a democracy. Some 160 million Muslims in a total population of 1220 million. And Hindus too feel slighted when their Gods and Goddesses are made fun of. For votes political parties have to keep these people happy. We do not want religious troubles. That is why we have such rules. It is very practical. We cannot let Wendy Donigers and Salman Rushdies spoil the atmosphere for just their own monetary benefits. These books are not any scholarship but only to flame sections of people. That old lady sees a penis or a vagina everywhere and suffers from some psychotic ailment. And if there is such a law in India established or accepted by elected representatives of the people in their wisdom, then a company in India has to follow the law (the law is there since the time of British).

Enacted in 1927, section 295A of the Indian penal code says:

Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of [citizens of India], [by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise], insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to [three years], or with fine, or with both.

It is good that Penguin heeded the law otherwise, their officers would have been liable to punishment.

 

[Asha]

The book wasn't banned. Instead, it was pulled back by the publisher. It's still available on the Internet in e-book format for purchase.

This is what worries me. Too much controvercy about a book usualy amounts to an increase in sales due to peoples curiosity.
Removing it from sale in India is not sufficient it should be removed from sale alltogether.

Penguin please reaserch your authors more carefully in future.

 

[Aupmanyav]

They do research the authors but the pull of money is strong. Our law extends only till the boundaries of India and sometimes not even there.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I have not read this book but I was listening to an interview with Doniger on the radio about the ban. I think all it will do is increase sales for it and make Hindus look like closed -minded fanatics with something to hide. A better strategy would be to let her little book sell and then have someone else formulate a response in opposition to it, explaining the other side. At least then people will have access to more information rather then being told that what's out there is wrong without offering an alternative.

There are always going to be those who spread misinformation. People who buy into it without question were not looking for a balanced view to begin with - so why worry about convincing these people?

That being said, the law in India is the Law. People need to stop playing their tiny violins when the law of another nation isn't the same as their own. Welcome to living in the rest of the world. If this woman is such an expert on Hinduism she must have spent enough time in India to know the political/religious climate and should have known her book would not be well received there. So, she doesn't sound like an expert to me.

:camp:

 

[Poeticus]

Two implications.

1) By stating the reason for the removal as a lawsuit, there is going to be a assumption that the "Hindutva right", has been involved and have muscled their power to pressure the publisher. No one will believe that the book itself was un-scholarly or that the content undermines Hinduism and presents a distorted view of Hinduism and its history. This is probably the most likely assumption.

2) By removal only in India, implication 1 is strengthened.

^Yeah, what he said.​

 

[Philomath]

I own it and I've never read it.

 

[Sb1995]

Don't worry, there will always be Wendy Donigers and Dr. Zakir Naiks. We have to live with them. Penguin is at fault otherwise it would not have agreed to such a settlement.

If I ever see this man in real life (He's banned in Canada) I will slap him so hard in the face.

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

If I ever see this man in real life (He's banned in Canada) I will slap him so hard in the face.

Why? He and Zaid Hamid provide such great comedy, lol...

 

[Kalidas]

I have not read this book but I was listening to an interview with Doniger on the radio about the ban. I think all it will do is increase sales for it and make Hindus look like closed -minded fanatics with something to hide. A better strategy would be to let her little book sell and then have someone else formulate a response in opposition to it, explaining the other side. At least then people will have access to more information rather then being told that what's out there is wrong without offering an alternative.

There are always going to be those who spread misinformation. People who buy into it without question were not looking for a balanced view to begin with - so why worry about convincing these people?

That being said, the law in India is the Law. People need to stop playing their tiny violins when the law of another nation isn't the same as their own. Welcome to living in the rest of the world. If this woman is such an expert on Hinduism she must have spent enough time in India to know the political/religious climate and should have known her book would not be well received there. So, she doesn't sound like an expert to me.

:camp:

Agreed it will just boost her sales. Actually people have offered counter arguments to what she has written.

The laws of another land are of another land and if it is what they want it will be. I would offer an alternative stratagy. Don't aggressivly attack her or her "facts" prove her wrong with your actions. Let the uneducated think ill of us, we know better and will educate with our actions. Not gonna lie I kind of want to read her book just so I know what "I am up against". As stated in the art of war to know yourself and your enemy will mean many victories. Not saying she is an enemy but her words attack dharma, and just like Arjuna we must fight to
protect dharma. Let your good Hindu life be your bow, and your educating words the arrows.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Satyameva jayate nānrtam, satyena panthā vitato devayānah |
yenākramantyrsayo hyāptakāmā, yatra tat satyasya paramam nidhānam ||"

Truth alone triumphs, not falsehood, through truth the divine path is spread out;
by which the sages whose desires have been completely fulfilled, reach that which is Truth's absolute station.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I was speaking with my husband about this a few nights ago and he said something that made me think.

"Yes, there will always be ignorant people bashing religions, but if they are actively spreading false information that can be very dangerous."

And the more I thought about it I agree with him. Look what has happened to the Muslim and Sikh communities in the united states because of fear, paranoia and miss-information.

Again, I have no idea how factual Doniger's book is or how many scholar's back her up. It's possible she had some bad material in the past and so now even if she publishes legitimate material, she is vilified. (Which would still be her own fault). I believe when you are publishing a scholarly work, you have a huge responsibility to either get it as accurate as possible and admit when there is uncertainty or debate in a given area. I also think your work should be extensively peer reviewed.

:camp:

 

[Kalidas]

I was speaking with my husband about this a few nights ago and he said something that made me think.

"Yes, there will always be ignorant people bashing religions, but if they are actively spreading false information that can be very dangerous."

And the more I thought about it I agree with him. Look what has happened to the Muslim and Sikh communities in the united states because of fear, paranoia and miss-information.

Again, I have no idea how factual Doniger's book is or how many scholar's back her up. It's possible she had some bad material in the past and so now even if she publishes legitimate material, she is vilified. (Which would still be her own fault). I believe when you are publishing a scholarly work, you have a huge responsibility to either get it as accurate as possible and admit when there is uncertainty or debate in a given area. I also think your work should be extensively peer reviewed.

:camp:

Here's the issue with scholarly works being peer reviewed. they are, by like minded people. Had she honestly wrote a "pro Hindu book" the same people who peer reviewed this one would say it is crap, and she would have to turn to the religious community.

The sad thing is we can't exactly "fight her" in the sense that we can not stop people from buying it or even believing it. The best we can do as I said, is to know what she is saying and be prepared to fight on behalf of our beliefs in case something negative occurs. We can't stop the spread of misinformation all we can do is be just as prepared to counter it when it rears it's ugly head.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Here's the issue with scholarly works being peer reviewed. they are, by like minded people. Had she honestly wrote a "pro Hindu book" the same people who peer reviewed this one would say it is crap, and she would have to turn to the religious community.

The sad thing is we can't exactly "fight her" in the sense that we can not stop people from buying it or even believing it. The best we can do as I said, is to know what she is saying and be prepared to fight on behalf of our beliefs in case something negative occurs. We can't stop the spread of misinformation all we can do is be just as prepared to counter it when it rears it's ugly head.

I agree. I guess I'm struggling with something you mentioned above - about wanting to read the book to know what you're up against, or simply ignore her.

People like you and I - those who are new to Hinduism, are probably ill prepared to defend it in an intellectual battle, which is exactly the type of battle Doniger would wage. The people who need to stand up are those who have lived this their whole lives and know the in's and outs, as it were. That being said, I also know that neither of us would feel good standing by and letting others do the 'heavy lifting'. So how do we best counter the tide of miss-information? I suppose ignoring her is one way, but it needs to be coupled with something more active I think.

We can teach by example - which I always believe one should, but then I also think we should take every opportunity we have to correct false thinking and/or answer questions.

It's different for us in another way too. We live in a country where Hinduism is still very much a minority religion to the point where people don't even know what it is - or how to separate it from Buddhism. So for better or worse we fly under the radar. But it must be incredibly painful for immigrant Hindus to watch this sort of thing play out back in India, because it's much closer to home.

I think I"m rambling. In short, I agree with you but I am at a loss for how to respond to people like Doniger in a proactive and effective.

I feel helpless I tell you!!

:camp:

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

I have never/will never read any books about Hinduism, but I read Hindu books.

Having said that, there is 'freedom of speech' in certain countries, but there's a very fine line when it comes to 'freedom of speech' vs 'stepping on religiously sensitive toes'.

I am not aware of the law either, but I doubt anybody has a case for prosecution (in America) under the First Amendment and no matter how much I think Ms Doniger is an uninformed idiot, it's censorship, pure and simple.

Like stated before, it's best if the book was published, refuted, then shot down in flames, destroying her credibility and career in the process. This way, it looks like Hindus have something to hide....this way, it looks like she is speaking a lot of 'truths' that the Hindu establishment wan't 'covered up' like a conspiracy.

The problem - the #1 problem with this world, is that other people care too much about what others say, their opinions, what others think about them, their beliefs and lifestyle. Not enough people are going 'screw you, I will do whatever I want and if it doesn't affect you directly, mind your own effing business'. If people are not part of the 'solution', they are part of the 'problem'.

The minute everybody is 'in it for themselves' and I mean really 'in it for themselves' (people can't be selfish and care what others think simultaneously), the world will be much better off.

So, let her do 'whatever' and if it's not true, why bother? There's so much misinformation about anything and everything out there anyway...nothing is real (except the Scriptures), so let her denigrate the religion and I don't care - why should I?

She'll get what's coming to her, and I doubt there are any 'naive non-Hindus who wish to become Hindu/learn Hinduism who will get the wrong idea/version through reading her books' so there's nothing to defend really, because even if they do believe in what she says, there will be millions ready to say 'what you know is all rubbish'.

Om Namah Shivaya