People Love Helpless Jews (to paraphrase a book title, People Love Dead Jews) - Jews that fight back, not so much

[rocala]

The book's premise is that dead Jews, i.e. Holocaust victims (Anne Frank in particular) and other similar people are a lot more popular than actual, identifiable living Jews.

If there is any truth in this, I doubt it is true everywhere. Growing up in London in the 60's and 70's I often came across references to "The Battle of Cable Street." In 1936 many local Jewish people joined various other people to prevent fascists marching through London's east end.
When I became involved with the anti-racist movement, the battle was seen as an inspiration.

Battle of Cable Street - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LuisDantas]

Actually, the vast majority of Jews are secular and have mixed in quite well in countries whereas Jews are not persecuted.

I would want to have a better understanding about what you mean by "mixed" here.

Some ten years ago I would agree without any reservation. Until very, very recently the most serious problem for Jewish People in Brazil was that so many would be willing to marry outside Judaism.

 

[PureX]

Who says Jews are not victims?

The world is full of victims. Jews have no special claim on that plight.

 

[metis]

I would want to have a better understanding about what you mean by "mixed" here.

Some ten years ago I would agree without any reservation. Until very, very recently the most serious problem for Jewish People in Brazil was that so many would be willing to marry outside Judaism.

IOW, in countries where anti-Semitism is not a serious problem, it would be difficult to distinguish secular Jews from the general public.

 

[metis]

The world is full of victims. Jews have no special claim on that plight.

I never said they have a "special claim", so where was this coming from?

 

[PureX]

I never said they have a "special claim", so where was this coming from?

It comes from the fact that anytime anyone ever says anything bad about Jews the antisemitism/perpetual victim card comes out.

 

[PureX]

IOW, in countries where anti-Semitism is not a serious problem, it would be difficult to distinguish secular Jews from the general public.

Or another way to look at it is that in places where the Jews are not so secular, but are more fundamentalist, they tend to inspire a lot of antisemitism. Religious fundamentalists tend to do that when they live among those that do not share their intensely insular and self-righteous mind-set.

 

[LuisDantas]

IOW, in countries where anti-Semitism is not a serious problem, it would be difficult to distinguish secular Jews from the general public.

Which is as it should be, I would think.

 

[LuisDantas]

Or another way to look at it is that in places where the Jews are not so secular, but are more fundamentalist, they tend to inspire a lot of antisemitism. Religious fundamentalists tend to do that when they live among those that do not share their intensely insular and self-righteous mind-set.

Are you willing to dwell in there, though?

Because if we do, we will need to bring up expectations of exception, privilege and protection by Christians and Muslims.

Past interactions with you lead me to believe you would not like that. If nothing else, that would not make your claims about Judaism and the Jewish people look very meaningful.

 

[PureX]

Are you willing to dwell in there, though?

Because if we do, we will need to bring up expectations of exception, privilege and protection by Christians and Muslims.

Past interactions with you lead me to believe you would not like that. If nothing else, that would not make your claims about Judaism and the Jewish people look very meaningful.

I have no idea what you think you're arguing with or why. I didn't post a thing that anyone with any sense could argue with.

 

[metis]

Or another way to look at it is that in places where the Jews are not so secular, but are more fundamentalist, they tend to inspire a lot of antisemitism. Religious fundamentalists tend to do that when they live among those that do not share their intensely insular and self-righteous mind-set.

Each religion and country sets their own standards. I'm very far from being a religious fundamentalist, but each has a right to establish their own rules of conduct as long as it doesn't hurt others.

 

[metis]

It comes from the fact that anytime anyone ever says anything bad about Jews the antisemitism/perpetual victim card comes out.

Well, when someone starts out with saying "The Jews..." or "The Catholics..." or "The Whatevers..." couple with stereotypes and insults, that probably isn't a good way to start. As the old insider joke goes "Two Jews have three opinions on just about everything".

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It comes from the fact that anytime anyone ever says anything bad about Jews the antisemitism/perpetual victim card comes out.

^ what a thoughtful, well-balanced, unbiased, clearly petty tantrum.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have no idea what you think you're arguing with or why. I didn't post a thing that anyone with any sense could argue with.

Indeed, it is not worth the time.

 

[Revoltingest]

^ what a thoughtful, well-balanced, unbiased, clearly petty tantrum.

Ouch!
Did he hit too close to home?

 

[PureX]

Each religion and country sets their own standards. I'm very far from being a religious fundamentalist, but each has a right to establish their own rules of conduct as long as it doesn't hurt others.

Of course, but when people are determined to create a separate sub-culture within another culture based on antithetical principals it’s going to create tension that is likely to turn into antipathy.

 

[PureX]

Well, when someone starts out with saying "The Jews..." or "The Catholics..." or "The Whatevers..." couple with stereotypes and insults, that probably isn't a good way to start. As the old insider joke goes "Two Jews have three opinions on just about everything".

Where are you seeing insults?

 

[Revoltingest]

Where are you seeing insults?

You might notice that the usual suspects object vigorously
when anyone refers to Jews, & commonly held views, eg,
generally supporting Israel's brutal polices imposed upon
Palestinians. Yet when so many here (including them) make
disparaging remarks about Muslims & Islam, there's nary a
peep of discomfort with that bigotry.
Highly selective self serving outrage, eh.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

IOW, in countries where anti-Semitism is not a serious problem, it would be difficult to distinguish secular Jews from the general public.

I had a Jewish friend at high school. My mum was horrified after having known the boy for two years, not realising he was Jewish. She had invited him to stay for dinner one night, then made some excuse about forgetting we had an appointment and needing to drop him home.

Whole thing was confusing to me, especially once I realised there was no appointment. Turned out she was cooking pork for dinner, and had thought it would be impolite to eat it in front of him.
He was secular (although one of his parents was a little more than that) and his favourite food was bacon, so the whole thing was kinda weird...lol

 

[metis]

I had a Jewish friend at high school. My mum was horrified after having known the boy for two years, not realising he was Jewish. She had invited him to stay for dinner one night, then made some excuse about forgetting we had an appointment and needing to drop him home.

Whole thing was confusing to me, especially once I realised there was no appointment. Turned out she was cooking pork for dinner, and had thought it would be impolite to eat it in front of him.
He was secular (although one of his parents was a little more than that) and his favourite food was bacon, so the whole thing was kinda weird...lol

Within the Jewish community at large, there is often a tension within extended Jewish families. For example, Orthodox Jews generally refrain from attending Pesach dinners with non-Orthodox, whereas the non-orthodox are much more liberal along those lines. The Chasidim are generally even more strict.