Perception and Reality

[Willamena]

Perception shouldn't be a mind-action, although that is what perception means to most people.
In advanced terms, it is an intuitive awareness.
In absolute terms, as in Mystics and the Enlightened, it is entirely separate from the senses, or the processing of sensory input.
To perceive the world as the world is, isn't something humans are good at.

In what way is the world, to humans, other than the only way they can perceive it? And if it's all that they are good at, should we fault them for that?

 

[osgart]

reality don't have to exist objectively at all. reality exists whether your objectivity likes it or not.

reality is still the great unknown.

theories are for smashing to pieces.

we are on the outside of reality's game and merely pawns in its grasp.

 

[godnotgod]

Big mistake, but a popular one.
Reality is that which also contains things that - to humans - exist objectively and 'in fact'.
Reality is the container of what-is, along with what-is.

One metaphor for this 'container', or background to existence, is the fish born into the sea. He does not know he is in the sea, and his attention is almost immediately captured by the foreground, in this case, food and predators. Likewise, we, as humans, are captivated by the foreground of life; by movement, color, sound, taste, and sensation, all being perceptual reality. We know little or nothing of the background out of which we emerged, that 'container' you refer to. That background, with which union is once achieved, is Ultimate Reality, out of which all things emerge, and return to. Ultimate Reality is Being, as compared to existence, which is in Time and Space.

When Yeshua said:

"Before Abraham was, I Am"

he was pointing to his Being, rather than to existence, which is the case with Abraham.

 

[godnotgod]

To perceive the world as the world is, isn't something humans are good at.

True, but it is not entirely human fault, as the illusion that is the world is so well-crafted, and the social indoctrination, which includes science, we are steeped in from the get-go is designed to maintain the illusion as being real. Add to this the obstacles of biology and other indoctrinated people who are intent upon keeping everyone else indoctrinated and from awakening, and man is left facing an almost insurmountable wall. It is this same obstacle, however, that the Buddha overcame to realize Supreme Enlightenment.

 

[godnotgod]

reality is still the great unknown.

Were we actually able to 'know' reality in the sense of it being factual knowledge, it would cease to be reality, since it would now be finitely encapsulated. It therefore must remain The Unknown, and it is only in that state that we can gain union with it. This union is a knowledge of a different kind, not being that of intellectual knowledge.

Factual knowledge is the knowledge of the manifestation of Reality; of the world of 'things'.

It is ironic and even humorous that the very thing we seek, is That which is causing us to seek.

 

[godnotgod]

In what way is the world, to humans, other than the only way they can perceive it? And if it's all that they are good at, should we fault them for that?

"Nothing we see or hear is perfect, and yet there, in the midst of all of the imperfection, lies Perfect Reality"

Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Master

It's a matter of attentiveness, wakefulness, and receptivity that allows some to suddenly pierce the facade and see into the heart of the matter.

 

[crowfeather]

In what way is the world, to humans, other than the only way they can perceive it? And if it's all that they are good at, should we fault them for that?

It is only the "only way they can perceive it", because they haven't investigated other ways of perceiving it.
Humans have come to see the adding and collecting of more and more, as a substitute for achievement.
But it is subtraction of the extraneous that results in achievement.
A bit like buying more and more lenses to layer on top of one another, in an overly complex pair of eyeglasses, in order to see clearly, rather than taking a nap to rest the eyes, then finding one did not need glasses in the first place.

And fault was not the point, or aim. It was an observation observing the way humans are.

 

[godnotgod]

Reality - That which exists objectively and in fact.

.

This is actually an altered state of consciousness, or conditioned awareness, in which the thinking mind sets up a construct of observer/observed in a subject/object split. We are taught to do this from early on, and this kind of thinking becomes hard-wired in. The default, awakened state is where there is no such 'this and 'that' mental construct, but instead an unconditioned conscious awareness in which, as Deepak Chopra described it, is 'a merging of observer, observed, and the entire process of observation into a single Reality'.


IOW, there is no 'observer of the observed'; no 'experiencer of the experience': there is only observation/experience itself. The added 'I' which thinks is a self-created principle.

 

[godnotgod]

.
Humans have come to see the adding and collecting of more and more, as a substitute for achievement.
But it is subtraction of the extraneous that results in achievement.

A very excellent and important point. One other metaphor is that of the sculptor, who removes material in order to arrive at the form within. Similar is the Taoist concept of The Uncarved Block of wood, which is a symbol for man's true nature before society puts its marks on him resulting in the state of Identification.

What goes hand in hand with this merging is the insight into the nature of phenomena, and that is that all phenomena, including ourselves, is devoid of any inherent self-nature. This, in Buddhism, is known as 'Sunyata', or 'Emptiness', and is due to the observation that all seemingly separate phenomena are in actuality interconnected with all other phenomena, and that all phenomena co-arises with Everything else. This is called The Law of Dependent Origination. You are not a separate observer of the Big Bang; you are The Big Bang itself, in the same manner that a wave is not separate from the ocean from which it arises, but is, in fact, the ocean itself. A wave is, as is all phenomena, not a thing, but an action, and as such, has no inherent self-nature. There is no such thing, for example, as a whirlpool; there is only whirling water.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

We are constantly bombarded by believers telling us their versions of reality which includes gods, demons, angels and the supernatural which swirl around our heads in an endless battle of good vs. evil, where the invisible intervene in our affairs, and the supernatural taking place right under our noses.

Since there is only one reality and no one has ever proven it to be anything other than what it is, and reality never includes gods, angels or other supernatural events. Are believers perceiving that as reality, or are they just misunderstanding the terms of reality and perception, or are they just having a strong desire for reality to be what they want it to be?


Reality - That which exists objectively and in fact.

Perception - To become aware of (something) through the senses, to recognize or observe.

I grew up with believers of something else, and was bombarded with static/eternal universe theories, big crunch, M theory, the flying spaghetti multiverse..

we all believe in something, some of us acknowledge that faith as such, and some don't (aka blind faith)

 

[crowfeather]

A very excellent and important point. One other metaphor is that of the sculptor, who removes material in order to arrive at the form within. Similar is the Taoist concept of The Uncarved Block of wood, which is a symbol for man's true nature before society puts its marks on him resulting in the state of Identification.

How pleasantly unexpected to read a comment that is not an insult, and that enlarges upon the point made.