Personal relationship with Jesus Christ

[greatcalgarian]

It's alot more fun to focus on Paul's epilepsy, i guess.

We are trying to discuss "personal relationship with Jesus". Although Paul is a great interpreter of Jesus teaching, I have not heard any Christians encouraging people to have a "personal relationship with Paul", though in many church services, and many bible study groups, often Paul's writings have been used interchangably with Jesus' teaching.

Anyway, what is your interest in Paul's epilepsy?

 

[greatcalgarian]

It seems Evangelicals are not using the words "personal relationship" to mean quite the same thing as most people mean by those words. Which raises the question of what do they actually mean by "personal relationship"?

Thanks, Sunstone. I am waiting patiently for a good reply.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Cal,

I'm not sure you even know what you're looking for. I've seen a lot of good answers to your questions and you have responded to every one of them by saying they're not really valid. I'm sorry I can't explain myself to your satisfaction, but it doesn't really appear that anyone else is hitting the mark, either.

I am pretty sure what I am looking for

I have not really said that those answer are not "valid" as such. All those answers just go in circle and can be traced to "faith". I could not relate "faith" to "personal relationship". Faith is abstract. Personal relationship is established from actual life experience and interaction. That is why I am trying to find out whether when Christians say that they have personal relationship with Jesus, and is "improving" or getting deeper into that relationship, is it just a statement that they have increased their faith level, or is it really day after day, they have actual interaction with Jesus and hence consolidated that relationship.

Thanks for explaining your understanding to me. And may your faith be blessed and lead to happier life.

 

[Katzpur]

I am pretty sure what I am looking for

I have not really said that those answer are not "valid" as such. All those answers just go in circle and can be traced to "faith". I could not relate "faith" to "personal relationship". Faith is abstract. Personal relationship is established from actual life experience and interaction. That is why I am trying to find out whether when Christians say that they have personal relationship with Jesus, and is "improving" or getting deeper into that relationship, is it just a statement that they have increased their faith level, or is it really day after day, they have actual interaction with Jesus and hence consolidated that relationship.

Thanks for explaining your understanding to me. And may your faith be blessed and lead to happier life.

I see. It sounds like you're saying that one cannot have a personal relationship with Jesus without having seen Him in person and touched the wounds in His hands and feel. I realize now why none of the answers you've received have been satisfactory. My faith in Jesus is the basis of my relationship with Him, but I guess that doesn't count. Good luck in finding someone who has had something more "concrete" and less "abstract."

 

[Sunstone]

It does not seem to me that you can have a personal relationship to deity in precisely the same sense that you can have a personal relationship to another person.

 

[muichimotsu]

I would give frubals, but I don't remember how, or if I can, lol.

 

[soma]

To me a personal experience with Christ is experiencing the love in Christ consciousness. The love of Christ presents man’s spirit with an intuitive understanding that the mysteries of faith can be brought into existence and appreciated. These mysteries are given to us to be mastered, and they seek understanding, not only in reflection, but also in prayer and meditation. God is everything, which we try to represent for the intellect and is infinitely more so we pass from philosophical understanding to faith, and then we pass from faith to spiritual understanding. Spiritual understanding is an intensification of faith transforming it into a vision, an experience and a mystical union.

http://thinkunity.com

 

[greatcalgarian]

To me a personal experience with Christ is experiencing the love in Christ consciousness. The love of Christ presents man’s spirit with an intuitive understanding that the mysteries of faith can be brought into existence and appreciated. These mysteries are given to us to be mastered, and they seek understanding, not only in reflection, but also in prayer and meditation. God is everything, which we try to represent for the intellect and is infinitely more so we pass from philosophical understanding to faith, and then we pass from faith to spiritual understanding. Spiritual understanding is an intensification of faith transforming it into a vision, an experience and a mystical union.

http://thinkunity.com

If I am not mistaken, you are saying that by going through the process of philosophical undestanding, it is possible to reach the stage of establishing one's faith in the believe, which then lead to some spiritual understanding, and followed by real spiritual experiencing of the existence of some sort of "personal relationship" with Jesus?

 

[greatcalgarian]

I would give frubals, but I don't remember how, or if I can, lol.

Find one of my post, click on the word Frubal at the top towards the right side. A screen will pop up, write whatever you want to tell me, then click on Add Karma.

Or is it Sunstone that you want to give Frubals to?

 

[greatcalgarian]

I see. It sounds like you're saying that one cannot have a personal relationship with Jesus without having seen Him in person and touched the wounds in His hands and feel. I realize now why none of the answers you've received have been satisfactory. My faith in Jesus is the basis of my relationship with Him, but I guess that doesn't count. Good luck in finding someone who has had something more "concrete" and less "abstract."

I understand you have a very close "spiritual" relationship with Jesus. But the normal dictionary definition of "personal relationship", to my understanding, is not correctly applied here for Christians who are expressing their faith in Jesus and the Gospel message.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I don't find the concept of the Christian having this personal relationship with Jesus anywhere in the Bible, but that doesn't seem to stop most from preaching it as "Gospel".

The Apostles taught and even harped on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. THIS is my seal of redemption, and the key to understanding the scriptures. Through the Spirit I am transformed into being more and more like Jesus and ultimately God. I make a point to kindle the fire that burns within me so that I can not hold it in!

Yet another popular belief that you can't find in the scriptures: Praying jesus into your heart. It's not how God wants us to become a child of his! Thought you should know!

 

[muichimotsu]

The fact that you believe you are finding Jesus spiritually in your heart doesn't make it absolute truth in any sense. It's merely your experience, and no matter how I try, I could never have the same experience in that respect as you did. Thusly, even if I thought of Jesus as divine, my understanding could not be the same as yours in any sense. Thusly, the supposed great Truth of Jesus seems to be more of what a large group of people insist is the great Truth because they felt it and believe that everyone else feels exactly like them. Maybe I'm generalizing, but the big issue here seems to be the fact that experience dictates truth in the eyes of many people, but that is only partly the case, isn't it?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

YES, you have clarify your faith in Jesus. But you have not described your "PERSONAL" relationship. By 'personal', I am taking the literal dictionary meaning of able to talk, hear, or correspond (by mail or email or telephone), and able to reach each other, and feel and respond to each other questions, joy, sadness, fear, lost etc. You just have "faith" that Jesus is hearing you, knowing you, and feeling your suffering, happiness etc, and you may just be feeling Jesus suffering after watching the movie Passion.

Biblical definitions and dictionary definitions do not always agree. Having a relationship with Christ is just the new way of saying that one is saved now that non-Christians have denigrated the term "born again."

 

[pdoel]

Biblical definitions and dictionary definitions do not always agree. Having a relationship with Christ is just the new way of saying that one is saved now that non-Christians have denigrated the term "born again."

Actually, in my opinion, it's not the non-Christians that have denigrated the term "born again".

I've been a Christian my whole life. Was raised in the Church, attended Sunday School, Church services, was baptized, even went to a rather strict Presbyterian College. I've also been preached at by many "born again" Christians who have told me that unless I'm born again, I will go to Hell.

Many times, these "born again" Christians have been people who lived rather sinful lives, and recently before preaching to me, had found Jesus.

It's always amazed me that I've studied Christianity, prayed, followed Jesus' teachings as best as I understand them my whole life, and that someone who's known him for a few months can tell me beyond a shadow of their doubt, that I will go to Hell.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but John 3:16 states: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that who shallever believith in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

No where in the scripture does it state that I must be "born again". I do realize that not all born-again Christians believe the same things, and not all preach against others. But many do and have. I think these are the people who have denigrated the term.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If the bible is in fact an accurate representation of Jesus, absent resurrection and all that silliness, then I would say the most plausible idea is that he suffered from schizophrenia. He exhibits all of the symptoms; delusions, hallucinations, speaking in metaphors, emotional instability. I mean really, the man sentenced an out of season fig tree to death for not having figs for him to eat.

So, personal relationship with Jesus...hm.

This is funny stuff. You should write a paper on it and send it to a scholarly journal.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I am pretty sure what I am looking for

I have not really said that those answer are not "valid" as such. All those answers just go in circle and can be traced to "faith". I could not relate "faith" to "personal relationship". Faith is abstract. Personal relationship is established from actual life experience and interaction. That is why I am trying to find out whether when Christians say that they have personal relationship with Jesus, and is "improving" or getting deeper into that relationship, is it just a statement that they have increased their faith level, or is it really day after day, they have actual interaction with Jesus and hence consolidated that relationship.

Thanks for explaining your understanding to me. And may your faith be blessed and lead to happier life.

I'm afraid that faith is needed to have any kind of relationship with someone whom no one can prove actually exists. Christians can't factually demonstate the existence of God, and much less that God can enable any kind of experimental contact with a person who died 2,000 years ago.

Evangelicals have an agenda with their langauge.

1) For one thing, they are still concerned with being distinct from sacramental theology and practice from "non-evangelicals" such as Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Christians, who primarily relate to God by means of the sacraments (most of all the Eucharist). The evangelicals think that somehow receiving sacraments is not personal and their relationship to God via prayer and the Bible (which, incidently, are sacraments) is personal.

2) A "personal relationship" means relating to God via your own personhood, which is why the OP has "sense" perceptions. This is a personal relationship without a priest administering a sacrament. When evangelicals ask you if you have a "personal relationship" with Jesus, they are asking if you have personally talked with God, not your priest giving you something or doing something for you.

 

[ladylazarus]

and then you proceed to quote just those part of the bible naration that may have meant Jesus was having the character of schizophrenia, but did not note the many other positive part of Jesus.

The fact that you find that unethical simply implies that you have a bias against people with mental disorders, and find any suggestion that someone has a mental disorder to be a suggestion that they are a bad person. I never said Jesus wasn't a good person, I said he exhibited all of the symptoms of schizophrenia.

The fig tree incident just happens to be one of the clearest examples of a symptom of schizophrenia, because while people will argue that "I am the son of god" is not a delusion, no one will argue that "this out-of-season fig tree doesn't have figs, so it should be killed" is a sound thought.

 

[mr.guy]

Man, everytime one of you puts a new post on this thread i start singing Depeche Mode. I'm grateful for the song in my head for the time being, but if this continues much longer i fear i might sour on the tune.

May i ask, is the concept of "personal jesus" just something of a new sell on the "god that knows your name"?

 

[greatcalgarian]

Biblical definitions and dictionary definitions do not always agree. Having a relationship with Christ is just the new way of saying that one is saved now that non-Christians have denigrated the term "born again."

I do not think the term "born again" was coined by non-Christians.

If biblical definition is different from dictionary definition, then evangelists should not simply borrowed the term from everyday usage. They should use the easier understandable term like "spiritual relationship with Jesus" and not "personal relationship with Jesus". Sometimes they do use the correct term, like spiritual growth with Jesus, and so on.

 

[greatcalgarian]

I don't find the concept of the Christian having this personal relationship with Jesus anywhere in the Bible, but that doesn't seem to stop most from preaching it as "Gospel".

Thanks for clarifying the important point.