Personal Religious Experiences

[blackout]

There is a vast difference between those who have sought God for themselves, and those who simply follow the tradition of their forefathers. The former has to find living experiences of God in his daily life, and the later only need to believe what the tradition has taught him.

When one finds God for himself, in himself and as himself, and strives to do His Will, one will never change again regarding his personal conviction. Jesus was an example. Death will not cause him to change.

True religious freedom does not depends on what to believe or not to believe, but on one's courage to discover God by himself and to do His Will regardless whatever societal pressure one is under.

What if, in seeking for one's self, one finds God as a herself, or an itself?

 

[flouncing floo]

What if, in seeking for one's self, one finds God as a herself, or an itself?

I would love to see the look on the faces of dyed in the wool Christian fundamentalists if they discovered the deity was female or genderless!:yes:

 

[Sunstone]

Tonymai, why are you trying to pour the ever new wine of mystical experience into the old wineskin of Christianity? Is it that you like to see things burst? For all your words in this thread have shown nothing so much as they have shown Christianity to be an old skin that bursts when new wine is poured into it.

 

[blackout]

Tonymai, why are you trying to pour the ever new wine of mystical experience into the old wineskin of Christianity? Is it that you like to see things burst? For all your words in this thread have shown nothing so much as they have shown Christianity to be an old skin that bursts when new wine is poured into it.

Hey Phil. I went through that very same experience, though in my own way,
before I finally let go of christianity altogether.
The old skin holds the new wine to a point,
but then finally does burst.
So finally you give it up, and go out and get yourSelf a variety of new wineskins,
or
you cup the wine with your own hands.
It hardly matters.

 

[Tonymai]

Tonymai, why are you trying to pour the ever new wine of mystical experience into the old wineskin of Christianity? Is it that you like to see things burst? For all your words in this thread have shown nothing so much as they have shown Christianity to be an old skin that bursts when new wine is poured into it.

I am not a Christian, but there are TruthBeatyGoodness in Christianity.

 

[YmirGF]

That hall mark of the knowledge of Truth.

Sadly, truth is relative to the evidence at hand. Stick with reality and you don't have to worry so much about truth.

 

[Awoon]

Spirit "God" humanized according to the Genesis story. So the word "god" is a symbol for Humans. Have we really become human?

Billions are living, walking, eating on the Earth. No one has to look for any God, we bump into them every day.

And God said to himself, Get lost. And there you are....Alan Watts

 

[Me Myself]

A soul is the co-creation of the a believing human mind and the the spirit of God living within that human mind. The experiences of God consciousness is the consciousness of this soul within human mind.

My limiteed experience says the same.

Frubals and blessings

 

[Friend of Bill W]

Sadly, truth is relative to the evidence at hand. Stick with reality and you don't have to worry so much about truth.

Try defining 'reality'? I thought reality was pretty straightforward; what I perceived and my thoughts I thought was reality.

Then I started studying Buddhism and things aren't as clear cut as I at first thought they were.

 

[Tonymai]

Try defining 'reality'? I thought reality was pretty straightforward; what I perceived and my thoughts I thought was reality.

Then I started studying Buddhism and things aren't as clear cut as I at first thought they were.

Consistency in experiences seems make those experiences more real since they fit together like a network. Knowledge and sayings of others must pass the consistency test before they can be thought as real.

Reality must be consistent.

 

[Muffled]

There is a vast difference between those who have sought God for themselves, and those who simply follow the tradition of their forefathers. The former has to find living experiences of God in his daily life, and the later only need to believe what the tradition has taught him.

When one finds God for himself, in himself and as himself, and strives to do His Will, one will never change again regarding his personal conviction. Jesus was an example. Death will not cause him to change.

True religious freedom does not depends on what to believe or not to believe, but on one's courage to discover God by himself and to do His Will regardless whatever societal pressure one is under.

Starngely enough, no teaching ever taught me to find God. The teaching just assumed that He was there. When I wanted Him, He was there for me.

I never found God as myself and never will. I think those who do, have a god that is themseves but that is not the One True God.

I don't see Jesus as an example of which you ar speaking. He is God and does not need to look for Him.

 

[sojourner]

I don';t see why everyone's so eager to dismiss the experiences of others. Funny how no one seems to do that when it comes to love, although you can't prove an experience of love any more than you can a religious experience.

Could it be these folks are jealous because they've never had one?

 

[crocusj]

Animals do not experience Deity because they do not have souls.

Or because they do not have the intelligence or imagination to interpret experience as deity. Animals dream. How do they interpret these dreams? Who knows. Humans dream and instil them with all sorts of connotations through intelligence and imagination. We are animals too and dreaming is one of the many things we have in common, as is the absence of any evidence of having a soul. If chimps don't have a soul (which you say they don't) then I see no reason to assume humans do.

 

[crocusj]

I don';t see why everyone's so eager to dismiss the experiences of others. Funny how no one seems to do that when it comes to love, although you can't prove an experience of love any more than you can a religious experience.

Could it be these folks are jealous because they've never had one?

Why would you compare the two, on what basis do you suggest that love is spiritual?
Nobody is saying that humans do not have religious experiences, it's their interpretation that is in question. If I do not believe in a god then surely I am bound to dismiss the experiences of others as having to be something other that what they believe it to be if they identify it as a god, particularly when that personal experience is expected to be seen as a universal truth. That is not dismissing out of hand, merely suggesting that when it comes to the human mind all might not always be as it seems. If a god lacks any evidence of existence (to me) then I must reasonably look elsewhere for an explanation of a phenomenon of the mind.

 

[Friend of Bill W]

Reality must be consistent.

Reality isn't consistent; because nothing is constant. For example, my ex-wife was lovely when I first met her, later I hated her; she changed (actually, I know she didn't change, it was my attitude towards her).

But nothing is constant; everything is created through causes and conditions, comes into existence, and passes away. To our human perception it may appear consistent; like it's real and solid; but it's not. If you could speed up time it would become more apparent.

So, according to you, nothing is real, because nothing is consistent.

 

[sojourner]

Why would you compare the two, on what basis do you suggest that love is spiritual?
Nobody is saying that humans do not have religious experiences, it's their interpretation that is in question. If I do not believe in a god then surely I am bound to dismiss the experiences of others as having to be something other that what they believe it to be if they identify it as a god, particularly when that personal experience is expected to be seen as a universal truth. That is not dismissing out of hand, merely suggesting that when it comes to the human mind all might not always be as it seems. If a god lacks any evidence of existence (to me) then I must reasonably look elsewhere for an explanation of a phenomenon of the mind.

You're not my wife either. Do you also dispute that I love her?

 

[crocusj]

You're not my wife either. Do you also dispute that I love her?

I am not disputing love or religious experiences but since religious experiences are here described as spiritual then I would suggest that there is no reason to compare the two. Unless, of course, you are saying that love is purely spiritual. In which case you can compare them but I cannot.

 

[BruceDLimber]

>There is a vast difference between those who have sought God for themselves, and those who simply follow the tradition of their forefathers.

Indeed!

And for this reason, you may find the Baha'i Faith of particular interest because one of our central teachings is what we call Individual Investigation of Truth.

What this implies is that every individual has both the right and the duty to investigate personally the various religions, decide where the truth lies, and follow that. And NO ONE--not spouse, parents, clergy, or anyone else--has the right to interfere with this decision!

Works great for us!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Tonymai]

Or because they do not have the intelligence or imagination to interpret experience as deity. Animals dream. How do they interpret these dreams? Who knows. Humans dream and instil them with all sorts of connotations through intelligence and imagination. We are animals too and dreaming is one of the many things we have in common, as is the absence of any evidence of having a soul. If chimps don't have a soul (which you say they don't) then I see no reason to assume humans do.

An embryonic soul forms when a spirit of God finds a mortal at the time he makes the first moral decision. Animals are incapable of moral thinking. They can not have souls.
Consequence to the finding, the spirit dwells in the mind of the mortal. The soul grows as the mortal consciously or unconsciously does the will of God, or follows the guidance of the spirit.

As a man becomes more conscious of his soul, he is more conscious Deity reality. We are all potential sons of God because a spirit of God dwells in each of us. We all have embryonic souls which can mature to live eternally as we become the fact that by faith we are sons of God.