Scarlett Wampus
psychonaut
Though the Tao is without characteristics we all have (and can extend) an instinctive awareness of when things are in accordance. If any, what person or people, real or fictional, personify 'Taoist' for you most?
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Personifications of Tao
- Thread starter Scarlett Wampus
- Start date
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
Yoda. 
Actually... I know very few people that personify Tao to me. I see it more in animals and nature. My taoist master Wan Chi Fu would have to come to mind. And of course, within the boundaries of your question... Lao Tzu.
Actually... I know very few people that personify Tao to me. I see it more in animals and nature. My taoist master Wan Chi Fu would have to come to mind. And of course, within the boundaries of your question... Lao Tzu.
Scarlett Wampus
psychonaut
Obi Won Kenobi in the original Star Wars film for me. Gentle, calm, humble, benevolent, mindful and naturally fearless. That persona made a firm impression on my mind as a kid.
I know what you mean about nature and animals. Also young children and some elderly people seem to return me to sanity as well somehow.
Gentle, calm, humble, benevolent, mindful and naturally fearless. That persona made a firm impression on my mind as a kid.I know what you mean about nature and animals. Also young children and some elderly people seem to return me to sanity as well somehow.
the_Unknown
Member
Because the tao is so vast and limitless, a person of the tao would not be much of a person.
They wouldn't be heroic or someone you would think worth remembering.
Looking at them would be like looking out into a large open plain - nothing but open space.
They would have nothing to say.
Existence itself would seem to speak for them.
They would never focus their eyes or look at anything, but they would see all.
They wouldn't react to any circumstance or stimuli.
Sounds and situations of crisis would seem to deaden about them.
In short, a person of the tao is oblivous to what we see as our reality.
They know it to not be real.
What we would see as cars, trees, people, feelings and ideals, they would only see a vast sea of emptiness.
A sea they are a part of.
They wouldn't be heroic or someone you would think worth remembering.
Looking at them would be like looking out into a large open plain - nothing but open space.
They would have nothing to say.
Existence itself would seem to speak for them.
They would never focus their eyes or look at anything, but they would see all.
They wouldn't react to any circumstance or stimuli.
Sounds and situations of crisis would seem to deaden about them.
In short, a person of the tao is oblivous to what we see as our reality.
They know it to not be real.
What we would see as cars, trees, people, feelings and ideals, they would only see a vast sea of emptiness.
A sea they are a part of.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
It's like reading Liu I-Ming.The Unknown said:
Scarlett Wampus
psychonaut
Zombitastic! :clap
Scarlett Wampus
psychonaut
Can't embody Tao but Taoist sure The Taoist immortals could hardly be called embodiments of Tao, that would be crazy. They do represent something though. er, hahahaha.
The Taoist immortals could hardly be called embodiments of Tao, that would be crazy. They do represent something though. er, hahahaha.
Scarlett Wampus
psychonaut
Kinda. Their legends are all so unique. I mean, you have a laughing fat man, a love-sick flute player, a great shaman who lost his body so possessed a dead beggar, a compassionate waif, a scholar/alchemist who kept screwing up (my avatar), a cross-dressing fortune teller and singer, a wise bat that decided to incarnate as a human and liked riding around on a cheeky donkey, and even a reformed criminal rich man!
All of them were flawed characters and there was a strong element of chance (or you could say natural humility) in their becoming immortal.
All of them were flawed characters and there was a strong element of chance (or you could say natural humility) in their becoming immortal.
the_Unknown
Member
There are many stories.
The less unique they are,
the more real they are.
Immortality is omnipresent truth.
It is mortality that is an illusion.
Like shadows casted by reality.
Completely insubstantial.
Ying and Yang are always in balance.
The desire for imbalance,
causes you to deulde yourself.
You say, "I love this imbalance"
and admit to loving an illusion.
When asked who you are,
you say, "I am what I love"
and admit to being an illusion.
So you lie to yourself,
and create the illusion of mortality.
The less unique they are,
the more real they are.
Immortality is omnipresent truth.
It is mortality that is an illusion.
Like shadows casted by reality.
Completely insubstantial.
Ying and Yang are always in balance.
The desire for imbalance,
causes you to deulde yourself.
You say, "I love this imbalance"
and admit to loving an illusion.
When asked who you are,
you say, "I am what I love"
and admit to being an illusion.
So you lie to yourself,
and create the illusion of mortality.
the_Unknown
Member
If you think you see the tao 'more' or 'less' in anything,
then you aren't seeing the tao.
then you aren't seeing the tao.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
While I partially agree with you, in effect the Tao is everything and nothing... According the Lao Tzu, Tao can be known through nature, and things that follow the natural "Way". Thus we can see the Tao more or less in things that follow the Tao (natural way) more or less than others.the_Unknown said:
Also, the question was not about us seeing Tao... but of us seeing those that are like Tao.
PureX
Veteran Member
It's part of the Tao of Man to deny and ignore the Tao. It's part of the Tao of Man to be superstitious and to anthropomorphize and "spiritualize" objects and events. It's part of the Tao of Man to be Christian, or Muslim, or Hindu, or Buddhist, or atheistic.
Taoism isn't about gods, or ideologies, or superstitions. Yet human beings are often about these things. It's part of the Tao of Mankind to be so. For me, the opening question of this thread is nonsensical, because all that exists is an expression of the Tao, whether we recognize this or not. And our "recognition" is an illusion of knowing the moment we claim it (I realize that this statement is a paradox).
The only way to ask the question that the opening poster is trying to ask, is in silence.
Taoism isn't about gods, or ideologies, or superstitions. Yet human beings are often about these things. It's part of the Tao of Mankind to be so. For me, the opening question of this thread is nonsensical, because all that exists is an expression of the Tao, whether we recognize this or not. And our "recognition" is an illusion of knowing the moment we claim it (I realize that this statement is a paradox).
The only way to ask the question that the opening poster is trying to ask, is in silence.
Scarlett Wampus
psychonaut
Yeh, the kind of things we're talking/thinking about have no relevance to Tao in the context that you are using the word. Thats because practising something like that Zen koan style negation of meaning is different to the kind of experiences the majority of posts in this thread are referring to. I've stated the completely obvious, ugh. What I'm trying to say is, Unknown its getting to sound a little preachy.the_Unknown said:
Scarlett Wampus
psychonaut
Well all the time I'm not posting ridiculous questions consider me asking in silence. :flirt:PureX said:
the_Unknown
Member
Master Vigil said:
The Tao IS everything and nothing.
The tao cannot be followed.
It is not measurable - it is infinte.
The natural way is THE ONLY WAY.
As reality is bound by nature.
You have no choice to be born or to die.
You have no choice to exist.
You have no choice to follow the Tao or not.
Choice is an illusion.
All things crumble into dust.
Yet, they are forever.
Between everything,
even these words,
is the Tao.
Scarlett Wampus
psychonaut
Unknown that was a good post. Yeah, the significance of the way is that it can't be defined as having qualities (sort of what you have been saying really). As Li Daoqun said, "The Tao is utterly open. Utter openeness has no substance. It ends in endlessness, begins in beginninglessnes". So, saying we have no choice or have choice, is besides the point (that doesn't mean to say its not a valid point when put into context). The point being pointless is perhaps one way of trying to say what you've been trying to draw attention to. I am very much agreement with this.
Now, that is a particular element of Taoist philosophy/experience, but Taoism is also all sorts of things to all sorts of people. When people talk about animals and nature being more 'Tao' it might be nonsensical if Tao has to be mean "utterly open", but even still we know what we mean since it tallies with our personal experience. Its that simple. Chuang Tzu summed this up when he said, "Words are for catching impressions; once you've caught the impression, its best to forget the words. Where can I find a person who knows how to forget about words so that I can have a few words with him?" I too want to talk about things, but if everytime someone says Tao it has to be strictly confined as "not this, not that" then nothing can be said. This is impractical! Do you see where I'm coming from?
Now, that is a particular element of Taoist philosophy/experience, but Taoism is also all sorts of things to all sorts of people. When people talk about animals and nature being more 'Tao' it might be nonsensical if Tao has to be mean "utterly open", but even still we know what we mean since it tallies with our personal experience. Its that simple. Chuang Tzu summed this up when he said, "Words are for catching impressions; once you've caught the impression, its best to forget the words. Where can I find a person who knows how to forget about words so that I can have a few words with him?" I too want to talk about things, but if everytime someone says Tao it has to be strictly confined as "not this, not that" then nothing can be said. This is impractical! Do you see where I'm coming from?
Well a Taoists master once said to me, that the Tao was indeed in all things and the messages of Tao coudl be seen in all things, both positive things and negative things.
Is the message of Tao in War? yes, is the message of Tao in peace? yes.
The only thing stopping us from feeling the messages of the way of nature in all things is ourselves, once we open our inner self to Tao then we will know. until then it is all dust in the wind. *************
a very wise conversation, on his part.
beccax
Is the message of Tao in War? yes, is the message of Tao in peace? yes.
The only thing stopping us from feeling the messages of the way of nature in all things is ourselves, once we open our inner self to Tao then we will know. until then it is all dust in the wind. *************
a very wise conversation, on his part.
beccax