Pew study and the Rise of ‘Jews of no religion’

[Jayhawker Soule]

I suggest that we refocus on the Pew Report.

 

[metis]

I suggest that we refocus on the Pew Report.

Pew-- it stinks!!!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

(that was bad)

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If I may? I would like to ask about the original OP. Which I found very interesting, and In the light of what has been going on in the Anglican church.
The Anglican Faith has as least as many branches as the Jewish faith, and all, except the evangelicals are suffering largely the same retention problems.
Does one of you branches fulfil the same territory as our evangelicals?

Another aspect of the question that might be similar is that those that have fallen by the wayside still seem to return in some numbers for the three basics... Baptism, marriage and burials, but otherwise seem to live God free lives.... ?

For information only and a similar anglican tread to this Thinking Anglicans: how many evangelicals in the CofE?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Anglican Faith has as least as many branches as the Jewish faith, and all, except the evangelicals are suffering largely the same retention problems.

Were there coherent philosophical movements they would exhibit the same leakage and decay. The trajectory strikes me as being one from social coherence and responsibility to individualism and disinterest.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So, what does the tribe think of the Pew Study?

 

[Dena]

I think it was not surprising but I was a little confused by the number of people who say they aren't even Jewish anymore.

 

[Caladan]

I think it was not surprising but I was a little confused by the number of people who say they aren't even Jewish anymore.

I think in past centuries and decades the label 'Jew' was forced strongly by other external forces not necessarily from the Jewish community itself (although also from the community). Jews were clustered in Jewish quarters, the local theology labeled them as members of a group which played both root and offspring of major antagonists, later these traditional world views changed their terminology from dogmatic based into political and social based.
I think its actually natural that many people of Jewish descent feel less pressured and find that they are less identifying with Jewish values and more with modern social values, standards and world views. We see the same on a large scale in some parts of Europe, as nations which have been historically Christian now developed strong secular social sectors, which may have very weak Christian sensibilities or none at all.

 

[Avi1001]

I think in past centuries and decades the label 'Jew' was forced strongly by other external forces not necessarily from the Jewish community itself (although also from the community). Jews were clustered in Jewish quarters, the local theology labeled them as members of a group which played both root and offspring of major antagonists, later these traditional world views changed their terminology from dogmatic based into political and social based.

I visited an amazing Synogogue in Vienna's Juddenplatz which provided remarkable insight into life as a Jew in the Middle Ages:

Museum Judenplatz | Jüdisches Museum Wien

The Synogogue was destroyed in 1421, and the Viennese Jews were expulsed and murdered. Visitors can see the excavated site.

This exhibit gave me insight about the hardships that Jews faced during the Middle Ages, in a way that I had not understood previously.

I think in past centuries and decades the label 'Jew' was forced strongly by otherI think its actually natural that many people of Jewish descent feel less pressured and find that they are less identifying with Jewish values and more with modern social values, standards and world views. We see the same on a large scale in some parts of Europe, as nations which have been historically Christian now developed strong secular social sectors, which may have very weak Christian sensibilities or none at all.

I am nearly completely secular, but I understand that as Jews we need to maintain the link to Judaism. From my perspective, Judaism offers great lessons in ethical and moral behavior. I sense that there are other connections, perhaps spiritual and others, but they are not easy for me to connect to.

 

[Caladan]

I visited an amazing Synogogue in Vienna's Juddenplatz which provided remarkable insight into life as a Jew in the Middle Ages:

Museum Judenplatz | Jüdisches Museum Wien

The Synogogue was destroyed in 1421, and the Viennese Jews were expulsed and murdered. Visitors can see the excavated site.

This exhibit gave me insight about the hardships that Jews faced during the Middle Ages, in a way that I had not understood previously.

Perhaps we should note that in various periods in history (not just WWII), Jews were required to wear recognizable clothing garments. So again, their identity meant much more than practicing their own traditions. It meant being held accountable for that, such an environment gives a very different meaning to identity.

I am nearly completely secular, but I understand that as Jews we need to maintain the link to Judaism. From my perspective, Judaism offers great lessons in ethical and moral behavior. I sense that there are other connections, perhaps spiritual and others, but they are not easy for me to connect to.

The vast majority of Jews hold a connection to Judaism. It can be a spiritual connection, psychological, cultural, political, and all these and other elements together. I have no reservations about saying that even as a naturalist I have a rich spiritual world in regards to Judaism. My way of parting from mainstream religion, and from religious institutions and participation is that I see it as a global phenomenon in a long continuum. From the days of Rome, all members of society were required to participate in public ceremonies to the Roman gods in order to safeguard the emperor and the state. It didn't matter if they believed in the Roman gods or not. The formal, ritualistic participation in religion on a social level doesn't resonate with me. It's not how my Jewish identity makes sense to me. It does on some bonding and brotherly basic level, but not on a consistent and mandatory scale. My version of Judaism is derived from ideals of freedom, freedom to worship according to my instincts and sensibilities, and the pursuit of justice which should not be limited by our religion's taboos. As much as people will try to bend this simple truth, you cannot be fully objective and wholesome in your view of truth, justice, or freedom if you subject yourself to a religious system which places what many consider today to be arbitrary limitations. Many of these limitations simply don't make sense to many people today. So, either we pretend, or we innovate.

 

[Akivah]

So, what does the tribe think of the Pew Study?

It's not exactly unheard of, however it is in a long line of studies that have predicted our demise.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's not exactly unheard of, however it is in a long line of studies that have predicted our demise.

I do not believe that the PEW report attempts to predict anything at all. Rather, it claims to present accurate data.

 

[Avi1001]

It's not exactly unheard of, however it is in a long line of studies that have predicted our demise.

Hi Akivah, are you suggesting the Pew has its own agenda ?

So far this is what I have found:

"Although today the Pew Charitable Trusts is non-partisan and non-ideological, Joseph Pew and his heirs were themselves politically conservative. The mission of the J. Howard Pew Freedom Trust, one of the seven funds, was to "acquaint the American people with the evils of bureaucracy and the values of a free market and to inform our people of the struggle, persecution, hardship, sacrifice and death by which freedom of the individual was won". Joseph N. Pew, Jr. called Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal "a gigantic scheme to raze U.S. businesses to a dead level and debase the citizenry into a mass of ballot-casting serfs".

Ref: The Pew Charitable Trusts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So far this is what I have found: ...

And it's relevance? Or are you simply and naively poisoning the well?

 

[Avi1001]

And it's relevance? Or are you simply and naively poisoning the well?

Jay, do you not see the connection between a right wing organization publishing a study that concludes we have become a secular nation ?

And what is naive about my post ?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jay, do you not see the connection between a right wing organization publishing a study that concludes we have become a secular nation ?

And what is naive about my post ?

I see - the Pew Report is little more than the sinister unfolding of a right wing agenda. Thanks for clearing that up for us. And kudos! Despite a torrent of commentary in the Jewish media, I know of not a single reputable Jewish source that has recognized this insidious undertaking. You are to be applauded for your remarkably unique - if not idiosyncratic - insight.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And this ...

So far this is what I have found:

"Although today the Pew Charitable Trusts is non-partisan and non-ideological, Joseph Pew and his heirs were ...

Jay, do you not see the connection between a right wing organization publishing a study that ...

... is nothing so much as a bungled smear campaign.

 

[Avi1001]

I see - the Pew Report is little more than the sinister unfolding of a right wing agenda. Thanks for clearing that up for us. And kudos! Despite a torrent of commentary in the Jewish media, I know of not a single reputable Jewish source that has recognized this insidious undertaking. You are to be applauded for your remarkably unique - if not idiosyncratic - insight.

There you go again, Jay. You used the words: "sinister" and "insidious" to overstate my position. I did not use those words. This approach is logically known as the strawman argument. You exaggerate my position, and then knock down the exaggeration. However, this fallacious reasoning is easily exposed.

Also, do you not realize that polling organizations, which supposedly use highly quantitative methods, often have large discrepancies in polling data, which often correlate with their philosophy ? Did you ever look at polling data in Presidential elections ? They follow very systematic patterns of variation. If you have not observed this, you may want to re-examine the meaning of naive.

 

[Avi1001]

And this ...

​

... is nothing so much as a bungled smear campaign.

Jay, biased selective quoting, another high school debate technique. Please at least give me the courtesy of providing the whole quote, when it gives a different meaning:

"Although today the Pew Charitable Trusts is non-partisan and non-ideological, Joseph Pew and his heirs were themselves politically conservative."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Furthermore ...

The Pew Research Center is an American think tank organization based in Washington, D.C. that provides information on social issues, public opinion, and demographic trends shaping the United States and the world. Its president beginning January 2013 is Alan Murray, former deputy managing editor of The Wall Street Journal, replacing Andrew Kohut.[2]
The Center and its projects receive funding from The Pew Charitable Trusts.[3] In 1990, Donald S. Kellermann was named to serve as the first director of what was initially known as the Times Mirror Center. It was then part of the opinion polling operation run by Times Mirror, the parent of the Los Angeles Times.[4]
The Pew Global Attitudes Project is a series of worldwide public-opinion surveys and reports aimed at understanding worldwide attitudes on various issues. The Project is chaired by former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Danforth.[5] The project is funded by the Pew Charitable Trusts, with a supplemental grant from the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. [source]

Murray is an award-winning journalist with more than three decades of experience in covering politics and economics, as well as a stint as co-host of a public affairs program on CNBC. He has served in numerous roles at The Wall Street Journal, including Washington bureau chief. He currently has editorial responsibility for the Journal’s websites, including WSJ.com and MarketWatch. He has led the recent rapid expansion of the Journal’s conference and video operations. (Murray will have a continuing role with the Journal’s conferences during a transition period.) He is the author of three best-selling books, and has won two Overseas Press Club awards for his writings on Asia, as well as a Gerald Loeb award for his coverage of the Federal Reserve. He serves on the Governing Council of the Miller Center for Public Affairs at the University of Virginia. Murray received a bachelor’s degree from the University of North Carolina, where he was a Morehead Scholar, and a master’s degree in economics at the London School of Economics.

“Alan Murray is ideally suited to lead the Pew Research Center in the years ahead,” said Donald Kimelman, Chair of the Pew Research Center’s board and Managing Director of Information Initiatives at The Pew Charitable Trusts. “Alan has had an exemplary journalistic career in which he has demonstrated great integrity and a solid commitment to impartiality. He’s a highly effective and creative leader. And he has a deep understanding of the digital arena in which the center’s future will play out.”

“Trusted facts are an increasingly rare resource in today’s world,” Murray said of his appointment. “Andy Kohut has built the Pew Research Center into a rock of reliable information amidst a sea of supposition and spin. I’m honored to be asked to lead this gem of an institution into a new era of global growth.” [source]

Perhaps Albright and Danforth are behind this "right wing" plot.