Pfft... you work in fast food?

[Lyndon]

How did you come to that conclusion?

Reading your post supporting slave labour by Microsoft in China.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Plus, as parents, we do things for our kids so that they won't have to face certain situations that we face. I mean, I wouldn't fault these rich parents for not forcing them into jobs that are meaningless to them. Some might do, just probably as a lesson but they have absolutely no need for an additional income. Maybe these rich kids are participating in extra-curricular academics like music or sports as their opportunity cost substitutes versus trying to earn more wage? I don't know?

I wouldn't force it either, but it's the fact there are often better connections for better jobs and better opportunities. It's a privilege of having money.
And not with just kids having extra-curricular, but even among the wealthy adults there more discussions of leisure, recreation, and vacation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is that fair? I don't know. It's just so arbitrary, IMO.

If it were up to me, people wanting to learn and do things that require money would have the available channels, be they rich or poor. It pretty much is true that you have to spend money to make money, and more you have to spend the more you can make.

 

[suncowiam]

Reading your post supporting slave labour by Microsoft in China.

You're making a very liberal translation of my post. You're like several steps ahead in your thought versus where we are in the discussion.

When did we talk about slave labor in China before all this? Are you asserting that Microsoft is using slave labor literally and not metaphorically in China? If so, please cite your source.

 

[suncowiam]

If it were up to me, people wanting to learn and do things that require money would have the available channels, be they rich or poor. It pretty much is true that you have to spend money to make money, and more you have to spend the more you can make.

I agree with this but the money and resources have to come from somewhere. That's the issue with any policy. If we somehow lived in a Star Trek Utopian Universe with devices that can create matter, you and I wouldn't have much a debate.

But coming from someone that lived in a communism and fled, I 100% guarantee that if I stayed in Vietnam, I and my family would not have the quality of life that I have today. So to me, it's much more than just hypothetical.

To be fair, it's not all the bad now in Vietnam, but that's because economically, they've transitioned away from pure communism.

 

[Lyndon]

You're making a very liberal translation of my post. You're like several steps ahead in your thought versus where we are in the discussion.

When did we talk about slave labor in China before all this? Are you asserting that Microsoft is using slave labor literally and not metaphorically in China? If so, please cite your source.

Microsoft moving production from China to Vietnam, you support this???

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-moves-nokia-manufacturing-from-china-to-vietnam/

 

[suncowiam]

Microsoft moving production from China to Vietnam, you support this???

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-moves-nokia-manufacturing-from-china-to-vietnam/

What does this particular article have to do with our discussion? One could argue that this is better for Vietnam as it will bring jobs and with jobs, it will bring income, security, and tech experience into Vietnam.

 

[Lyndon]

So having fled Vietnam and communism, you are in favour of the labour conditions in China and Vietnam, no???

 

[suncowiam]

So having fled Vietnam and communism, you are in favour of the labour conditions in China and Vietnam, no???

Are you trolling me? Sorry but I'm playing connect the dots with what you're trying to assert.

We started at slavery and now labor conditions from China to Vietnam? No where have you proven that Microsoft is forcing slave labor.

 

[BSM1]

So you're claiming there's a possibility most rich people have worked as a dishwasher at Denney's, do you know how ridiculous that sounds!!

And, probably just as ridiculous (and naive), you seem to think all "rich people" became so automatically.

 

[Father Heathen]

Don't you think there's a little stereotyping with this? =)

Not if it's something that she has personally observed and experienced.

Plus, as parents, we do things for our kids so that they won't have to face certain situations that we face. I mean, I wouldn't fault these rich parents for not forcing them into jobs that are meaningless to them. Some might do, just probably as a lesson but they have absolutely no need for an additional income. Maybe these rich kids are participating in extra-curricular academics like music or sports as their opportunity cost substitutes versus trying to earn more wage? I don't know?

Even if I were rich, I would still want my children to have a good work ethic and to appreciate what they have and to be honest and humble. I wouldn't want them to become spoiled, entitled, ungrateful, snobby wastrels who think that they're better than others just because they have more wealth even though they didn't earn it on their own.

 

[suncowiam]

Not if it's something that she has personally observed and experienced.



Even if I were rich, I would still want my children to have a good work ethic and to appreciate what they have and to be honest and humble. I wouldn't want them to become spoiled, entitled, ungrateful, snobby wastrels who think that they're better than others just because they have more wealth even though they didn't earn it on their own.

That's still a very small sample size. Maybe a census or poll would be better to deduce the status and activities of the rich.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Does it matter what percentage if it isn't 100 percent? You're saying all poor people were born poor?

The subject IS about stereotypes based on income and skills right?

What part of double standards do you not understand or refuse to acknowledge? Its OK to assume this and that for rich folks but then its not OK to assume this and that for poor folks?

Yes, most poor people are born poor. Social mobility in America is pretty much dead. The idea that almost everyone has a realistic chance to "climb the ladder" is a myth based on propaganda and ignorance of how things actually are right now, as opposed to reality: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?hp&_r=0

Social mobility died decades ago. It was at its highest during the post-WWII manufacturing boom when there were strong unions and America was an industrialized powerhouse and you didn't need a college education to make good money, to own your own house and support your family. Now all those jobs have been shipped overseas because those countries have very lax worker's rights and protections, so the companies can pay them a pittance and have poor working conditions, and then sell their products back to Westerners at a very inflated price (so **** Bill Gates and Steve Jobs). So now many communities throughout America have been plunged into poverty (the Rust Belt, for example). Look at Detroit. The formerly robust mining communities in the Appalachian region have collapsed, too. My own city - Columbus, Ohio - is falling apart and starting to resemble other broken-down inner-city warzones like Baltimore, Cleveland and Chicago. If you live in the inner-city, look to Detroit for a good idea of what your future is going to become.

America is post-industrial now, but we are still pretending that we're an industrialized economy. Policies haven't caught up to the reality. To get a good job, you need to have a college degree in programming or whatever and college is too expensive for millions of people. If you're a blue collar worker, come from rural areas or are a poor person in the decrepit inner-city, you're ****ed.

 

[gnomon]

It is perhaps normal for cultures worldwide to attach certain status and prestige to certain fields of employ, as well as certain taboo and denigration to others.

In my country, the stories we tell to people are "you need to get a job that pays a lot of money and has prestige." It is a powerful cultural mythology, that sweeps my countryfolk up from young age. They aspire to be things like doctors, veterinarians, engineers, and other supposedly prestigious, money-making careers. There is another story we tell to people that goes alongside the one above: "if you don't get a prestigious job that makes a lot of money, you are a lesser person and your education was a waste." We don't just tell people to aspire for particular positions of prestige, we tell them they are failures if they don't have those supposedly powerful and worthy types of jobs. The manager of a big box store? We stare down our noses at it. The person running the sales floor? We stare down our noses at them even harder.

Why do we do this?

I find it quite bothersome. What about you?

I agree.

And there was much here to discuss.

Unfortunately your thread was hijacked to talk about essentially nothing of importance.

 

[suncowiam]

I find it bothersome as well.

Too bad your thread was hijacked for one person to toot their own horn.

Could have been a great thread. Discussions regarding class, race or politics but........no.

Instead I just keep reading bull**** about stereotyping rich people.

What the hell?

Because your initial statement had nothing to with such nonsense.

Unfortunately a red herring came along and...........ppphhbbttt.

Oh well.

Actually I was very on point with the topic. People want to stereotype others but don't want to be stereotyped.

It's hypocrisy.

If you think I hijacked this thread, you can bring it up with the mods and deal with it properly. Or you can even address me first and not be passive aggressive.

It still is a good discussion with perspectives from all sides. Thats just my opinion.

[Edited]
I see you've updated your response to be more polite. I appreciate that. I also welcome an open and honest conversation if you're interested.

 

[suncowiam]

Yes, most poor people are born poor. Social mobility in America is pretty much dead. The idea that almost everyone has a realistic chance to "climb the ladder" is a myth based on propaganda and ignorance of how things actually are right now, as opposed to reality: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?hp&_r=0

Social mobility died decades ago. It was at its highest during the post-WWII manufacturing boom when there were strong unions and America was an industrialized powerhouse and you didn't need a college education to make good money, to own your own house and support your family. Now all those jobs have been shipped overseas because those countries have very lax worker's rights and protections, so the companies can pay them a pittance and have poor working conditions, and then sell their products back to Westerners at a very inflated price (so **** Bill Gates and Steve Jobs). So now many communities throughout America have been plunged into poverty (the Rust Belt, for example). Look at Detroit. The formerly robust mining communities in the Appalachian region have collapsed, too. My own city - Columbus, Ohio - is falling apart and starting to resemble other broken-down inner-city warzones like Baltimore, Cleveland and Chicago. If you live in the inner-city, look to Detroit for a good idea of what your future is going to become.

America is post-industrial now, but we are still pretending that we're an industrialized economy. Policies haven't caught up to the reality. To get a good job, you need to have a college degree in programming or whatever and college is too expensive for millions of people. If you're a blue collar worker, come from rural areas or are a poor person in the decrepit inner-city, you're ****ed.

You brought up a variety of topics. I'm not going to be able to address them all.

Markets change. Eras change. One has to adapt. Unfortunately, it's not apparent on how to adapt.

Anything bill gates or Steve Jobs shove out is not a necessity. You do not have to buy their products at inflated prices. You can find cheaper products at lower quality of course. The choice is yours.

You're probably right about the remaining topics about location and college degree. I have no clue honestly.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Markets change. Eras change. One has to adapt. Unfortunately, it's not apparent on how to adapt.

Adaptation? Sure! Join a gang (the narco cartels are a possibly lucrative option and employment opportunities are opening up nationwide!), become a neighborhood drug dealer, become a hooker/"escort", whore yourself out to rich people who are too lazy to do their own laundry, or mail their own mail or park their own car (it's becoming a big thing in cities like San Francisco), etc. The possibilities for self-debasement are endless in the new neo-feudal American era.

 

[suncowiam]

Adaptation? Sure! Join a gang (the narco cartels are a possibly lucrative option!), become a drug dealer, become a hooker, whore yourself out to rich people who are too lazy to do their own laundry, or mail their own mail or park their own car (it's becoming a big thing in cities like San Francisco), etc. The possibilities for self-debasement are endless in the new neo-feudal American era.

I get your point. I did mean a legal form but you're very right in that respect. I never said it will be easy. I have more to add but I have to call it a night.

Good night SF.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I get your point. I did mean a legal form but you're very right in that respect. I never said it will be easy. I have more to add but I have to call it a night.

Good night SF.

Mmhmm. Good night.

 

[suncowiam]

Was unaware child workers in the third world become millionaires because of microsoft. Interesting analysis.

You're assuming child workers were forced to labor for MS. So before you jump to tangents based on your premise, why don't you simply prove this first. Site a source.

Also, there are other sides to this which I presented to you. You could be very correct that child labor was used which I don't approve of, but there were also many Americans of legal working status that benefited from the rise of Microsoft. I wouldn't call them slaves as you did.

So first site your source and I'll continue on that.