Physical Christianity

[jimb]

Many of us, including myself, sit at our computers and debate various theological concepts, but that is not what Christianity is really about. Instead, we are to behave as Christians. So, what does that mean?

Instead of debating theological and Christological subjects like latter-day Pharisees and Sadducees, we are supposed to treat others with kindness, love and charity. Jesus was not kidding when He said that we should love our neighbors as ourselves (which is actually an Old Testament command). If we someone -- anyone -- in need, it is our responsibility as blessed disciples to help that person -- without regard to nationality, gender, appearance, or any other measure. That is what I mean by the phrase "physical Christianity".

Our Christian life should not be limited to attending church once a week with people like ourselves. Even the Jews who Jesus criticized so sharply attended synagogue weekly. Just like us, they heard God's message, but whom did Jesus cite as an example of true love? A despised Samaritan, not a Jew. In fact, the stricken man was ignored by two Jews! (Now, before I am accused of being anti-Semitic, I am a Jew myself, as was Jesus). We are supposed to give practical aid to everyone in need, regardless of their religion, nationality, gender, social status, or any other measure.

Everyone is created in God's (spiritual) image. All human beings have been created by God and should be treated with kindness and generosity. Don't forget that "the good Samaritan" went "the extra mile" by letting the stricken man stay at the inn at his expense until he returned.

The opposite behavior is exhibited by those who criticized Jesus for healing a man on the Sabbath, as an example. In Matthew 12:10-12, Jesus says "A man was there [in the synagogue] who had a withered hand. And they [the Pharisees] asked Jesus, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” so that they could accuse him. He said to them, “Would not any one of you, if he had one sheep that fell into a pit on the Sabbath, take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” And of course it is understood that if giving aid on the Sabbath is permissible, it is permissible to give aid on the remaining six days.

I am not judging anyone who debates religious issues in online discussions. I do it myself -- as I am right now! -- but that should not replace giving whatever assistance is required to anyone in need. That is the meaning of Matthew 7:12, "In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law and the prophets."

P.S. What verses follow the above? “Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and there are few who find it!"

 

[Jagella]

Many of us, including myself, sit at our computers and debate various theological concepts, but that is not what Christianity is really about. Instead, we are to behave as Christians. So, what does that mean?

Just read the gospels and the epistles for how Christians are to behave. If we can trust these sources, then Jesus was a very radical reformer who wanted his followers to change radically by forsaking worldly pursuits and concerns. Family and wealth were to be disregarded and all concern was to be focused on the kingdom of God.

Instead of debating theological and Christological subjects like latter-day Pharisees and Sadducees, we are supposed to treat others with kindness, love and charity. Jesus was not kidding when He said that we should love our neighbors as ourselves (which is actually an Old Testament command). If we someone -- anyone -- in need, it is our responsibility as blessed disciples to help that person -- without regard to nationality, gender, appearance, or any other measure. That is what I mean by the phrase "physical Christianity".

It's important to see the love preached in the gospels in the historical context of first-century Christianity. Jesus's love was a love not so much based on mutual respect and affection but on God's commands. So you loved your enemy not because your enemy was lovable but because you were told by an authority to love your enemy on pain of punishment for disobeying.

Our Christian life should not be limited to attending church once a week with people like ourselves. Even the Jews who Jesus criticized so sharply attended synagogue weekly. Just like us, they heard God's message, but whom did Jesus cite as an example of true love? A despised Samaritan, not a Jew. In fact, the stricken man was ignored by two Jews! (Now, before I am accused of being anti-Semitic, I am a Jew myself, as was Jesus). We are supposed to give practical aid to everyone in need, regardless of their religion, nationality, gender, social status, or any other measure.

Jesus was obviously taking a swipe at some of the Jewish sects that competed with his sect. I don't believe that most Jews would have been so callous as to ignore a badly injured man lying in the road. Jesus was saying that even a Samaritan was better than those Jews who disagreed with him.

The opposite behavior is exhibited by those who criticized Jesus for healing a man on the Sabbath, as an example. In Matthew 12:10-12, Jesus says "A man was there [in the synagogue] who had a withered hand. And they [the Pharisees] asked Jesus, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” so that they could accuse him. He said to them, “Would not any one of you, if he had one sheep that fell into a pit on the Sabbath, take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” And of course it is understood that if giving aid on the Sabbath is permissible, it is permissible to give aid on the remaining six days.

I understand that the Pharisees had no rules against healing on the sabbath. So Matthew may have been taking liberties with the truth when he portrayed the Pharisees objecting to Jesus healing on the sabbath.

I am not judging anyone who debates religious issues in online discussions. I do it myself -- as I am right now! -- but that should not replace giving whatever assistance is required to anyone in need. That is the meaning of Matthew 7:12, "In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law and the prophets."

Actually, I think people realized the importance of giving to those in need long before Christians came along.

P.S. What verses follow the above? “Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and there are few who find it!"

Passages like that have led to centuries of paranoia among Christians fearing damnation. It's not what we might think of when it comes to love and mercy.

 

[jimb]

Just read the gospels and the epistles for how Christians are to behave. If we can trust these sources, then Jesus was a very radical reformer who wanted his followers to change radically by forsaking worldly pursuits and concerns. Family and wealth were to be disregarded and all concern was to be focused on the kingdom of God.

It's important to see the love preached in the gospels in the historical context of first-century Christianity. Jesus's love was a love not so much based on mutual respect and affection but on God's commands. So you loved your enemy not because your enemy was lovable but because you were told by an authority to love your enemy on pain of punishment for disobeying.

Jesus was obviously taking a swipe at some of the Jewish sects that competed with his sect. I don't believe that most Jews would have been so callous as to ignore a badly injured man lying in the road. Jesus was saying that even a Samaritan was better than those Jews who disagreed with him.

I understand that the Pharisees had no rules against healing on the sabbath. So Matthew may have been taking liberties with the truth when he portrayed the Pharisees objecting to Jesus healing on the sabbath.

Actually, I think people realized the importance of giving to those in need long before Christians came along.

Passages like that have led to centuries of paranoia among Christians fearing damnation. It's not what we might think of when it comes to love and mercy.

I agree on point #1.

I disagree on point #2. You love your enemy because of the new vision that God has given you, not because of fear of punishment.

Re point#3: Jesus wasn't in competition; He was stating the truth. The people that passed by the injured Samaritan were Jews. The parable was told that way for a reason!

Re point #4: Matthew wasn't "taking liberties". He was writing the truth as inspired by God. The Pharisees clearly elevated keeping the Sabbath over caring for others.

Re point #5: So Jesus' talking about giving aid to an injured person or healing on the Sabbath was just a waste of time?

Re point #6: Speak for yourself! Most Christians that I know don't behave as they do because of a fear of damnation. True Christians know that they have been saved from eternal damnation and given the gift of eternal life because Jesus died for their sins.

In summary: your understanding of Christians and Christianity is way "off base".

 

[Spice]

Many of us, including myself, sit at our computers and debate various theological concepts, but that is not what Christianity is really about. Instead, we are to behave as Christians. So, what does that mean?

Instead of debating theological and Christological subjects like latter-day Pharisees and Sadducees, we are supposed to treat others with kindness, love and charity. Jesus was not kidding when He said that we should love our neighbors as ourselves (which is actually an Old Testament command). If we someone -- anyone -- in need, it is our responsibility as blessed disciples to help that person -- without regard to nationality, gender, appearance, or any other measure. That is what I mean by the phrase "physical Christianity".

Our Christian life should not be limited to attending church once a week with people like ourselves. Even the Jews who Jesus criticized so sharply attended synagogue weekly. Just like us, they heard God's message, but whom did Jesus cite as an example of true love? A despised Samaritan, not a Jew. In fact, the stricken man was ignored by two Jews! (Now, before I am accused of being anti-Semitic, I am a Jew myself, as was Jesus). We are supposed to give practical aid to everyone in need, regardless of their religion, nationality, gender, social status, or any other measure.

Everyone is created in God's (spiritual) image. All human beings have been created by God and should be treated with kindness and generosity. Don't forget that "the good Samaritan" went "the extra mile" by letting the stricken man stay at the inn at his expense until he returned.

The opposite behavior is exhibited by those who criticized Jesus for healing a man on the Sabbath, as an example. In Matthew 12:10-12, Jesus says "A man was there [in the synagogue] who had a withered hand. And they [the Pharisees] asked Jesus, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” so that they could accuse him. He said to them, “Would not any one of you, if he had one sheep that fell into a pit on the Sabbath, take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” And of course it is understood that if giving aid on the Sabbath is permissible, it is permissible to give aid on the remaining six days.

I am not judging anyone who debates religious issues in online discussions. I do it myself -- as I am right now! -- but that should not replace giving whatever assistance is required to anyone in need. That is the meaning of Matthew 7:12, "In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law and the prophets."

P.S. What verses follow the above? “Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and there are few who find it!"

I also believe James 2:18 is important:
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Going to church alone, even filling the offering plate is just not enough, IMO, especially for those that use such passages as 2 Thessalonians 3:10 as excuses not to follow Jesus's Gospel.
10For even while we were with you, we gave you this command: “If anyone is unwilling to work, he shall not eat.”
Paul is NOT discussing the poor or needy, but rather his own followers who felt they were "entitled" to be taken care of.
Therefore, IMO, all should be careful to follow the Spirit of Christianity over just scripture, for God will speak to the heart especially for those who open it in faith, regardless of what words of man they hear or see.

 

[jimb]

I also believe James 2:18 is important:
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Going to church alone, even filling the offering plate is just not enough, IMO, especially for those that use such passages as 2 Thessalonians 3:10 as excuses not to follow Jesus's Gospel.
10For even while we were with you, we gave you this command: “If anyone is unwilling to work, he shall not eat.”
Paul is NOT discussing the poor or needy, but rather his own followers who felt they were "entitled" to be taken care of.
Therefore, IMO, all should be careful to follow the Spirit of Christianity over just scripture, for God will speak to the heart especially for those who open it in faith, regardless of what words of man they hear or see.

Of course, if a person is capable of doing "works" and does not do them, then s/he is being selfish. Loving your neighbor does not involve just being kind and praying for that person, but giving them whatever assistance that s/he needs. On the other hand, if all a person can do is pray for another person, then that is sufficient, s/he is not being lazy or selfish.

Taking 2 Thessalonians 3:10 out of context makes it seem as though lending aid (as opposed to, say, praying or giving money) is a requirement for everyone. It clearly is not. A person should give as s/he is able. Paul would certainly not deny food to someone who cannot give actual physical aid to another.

 

[Jagella]

I agree on point #1.

I was pointing out that virtually no avowed Christians obey all of Jesus's commandments. John 14: 21 tells us

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

So it logically follows that almost no Christians love Jesus.

I disagree on point #2. You love your enemy because of the new vision that God has given you, not because of fear of punishment.

I can easily prove you wrong here by citing Matthew 10:28.

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jesus commands you to fear punishment from God!

Re point#3: Jesus wasn't in competition; He was stating the truth. The people that passed by the injured Samaritan were Jews. The parable was told that way for a reason!

It's just a story Jesus presumably told. Stories are sometimes fictional. Jesus displayed a lot of hatred for many Jews, and we should not be surprised that he would slander them,

Re point #4: Matthew wasn't "taking liberties". He was writing the truth as inspired by God. The Pharisees clearly elevated keeping the Sabbath over caring for others.

Historian Richard Carrier has this to say about Matthew's claim that the Pharisees forbid healing on the Sabbath.

Yet even the most informed author, Matthew, isn’t a paragon of accuracy. For example, it’s well known that the Pharisees did not forbid healing on the Sabbath, yet they are depicted as arguing this with Jesus repeatedly...

See Analysis of the Carrier-Evans Debate.

Re point #5: So Jesus' talking about giving aid to an injured person or healing on the Sabbath was just a waste of time?

I suppose for Jesus that was effective propaganda. To this day many people hate Jews especially the Pharisees.

Re point #6: Speak for yourself! Most Christians that I know don't behave as they do because of a fear of damnation.

Just for the record, I've known many Christians who say they fear hell I suppose if they sin. But I think you actually got one right here. Many Christians go ahead and sin; damnation be damned!

True Christians know that they have been saved from eternal damnation and given the gift of eternal life because Jesus died for their sins.

They also need to "sin no more" as Jesus commanded. Examples include John 5:14 and John 8:11.

In summary: your understanding of Christians and Christianity is way "off base".

Well, after I exposed and corrected at least two of your own erroneous claims about the Bible and Christianity, I wouldn't crow too loudly if I were you.

 

[jimb]

I was pointing out that virtually no avowed Christians obey all of Jesus's commandments. John 14: 21 tells us

So it logically follows that almost no Christians love Jesus.

I can easily prove you wrong here by citing Matthew 10:28.

Jesus commands you to fear punishment from God!

It's just a story Jesus presumably told. Stories are sometimes fictional. Jesus displayed a lot of hatred for many Jews, and we should not be surprised that he would slander them,

Historian Richard Carrier has this to say about Matthew's claim that the Pharisees forbid healing on the Sabbath.

See Analysis of the Carrier-Evans Debate.

I suppose for Jesus that was effective propaganda. To this day many people hate Jews especially the Pharisees.

Just for the record, I've known many Christians who say they fear hell I suppose if they sin. But I think you actually got one right here. Many Christians go ahead and sin; damnation be damned!

They also need to "sin no more" as Jesus commanded. Examples include John 5:14 and John 8:11.

Well, after I exposed and corrected at least two of your own erroneous claims about the Bible and Christianity, I wouldn't crow too loudly if I were you.

When you even begin to understand Christianity we can continue this discussion. Until then, I HAVE NO INTEREST IN YOUR USELESS OPINIONS.

 

[Jagella]

When you even begin to understand Christianity we can continue this discussion. Until then, I HAVE NO INTEREST IN YOUR USELESS OPINIONS.

That's a typical Christian reaction to having his faith come under scrutiny. Get the bee-hind kicked, turn the tail, and then run off lying about the person who just kicked said bee-hind.

 

[Trailblazer]

When you even begin to understand Christianity

I understand Christianity all too well, enough to know that it is mostly built on false doctrines.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That's a typical Christian reaction to having his faith come under scrutiny. Get the bee-hind kicked, turn the tail, and then run off lying about the person who just kicked said bee-hind.

Exactly. Well said, in my opinion. And this is in a thread where the OP preached about how Christians should behave and exhorted others to love their neighbor and treat others the way they want to be treated. Surely, I'm not the only person who sees the irony (and hypocrisy) in that.

 

[jimb]

That's a typical Christian reaction to having his faith come under scrutiny. Get the bee-hind kicked, turn the tail, and then run off lying about the person who just kicked said bee-hind.

Under scrutiny? You are totally incapable of understanding even the basics if Christianity.

 

[jimb]

Exactly. Well said, in my opinion. And this is in a thread where the OP preached about how Christians should behave and exhorted others to love their neighbor and treat others the way they want to be treated. Surely, I'm not the only person who sees the irony (and hypocrisy) in that.

You're cut from the same cloth as Jagella. There is no point discussing Christianity with either of you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I understand Christianity all too well, enough to know that it is mostly built on false doctrines.

You mean you know what the Baha'i religion says about Christianity and what Baha'i says the "real" meanings of the Bible are. It's the same with Baha'is and every other religion, thinking they know what those religions "really" teach and they need to be rescued from their wrong thinking by Baha'i religion. That's why Baha'i religion doesn't have a good reputation on this board. People get sick of the arrogance. But I guess Baha'is are playing a role in world peace, as you've gotten Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. all to be against you. Lol.

 

[Trailblazer]

Surely, I'm not the only person who sees the irony (and hypocrisy) in that.

No, you are not the only person who sees that.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's why Baha'i religion doesn't have a good reputation on this board. People get sick of the arrogance.

That's why Christians don't have a good reputation on this board, except with other Christians. People get sick of the arrogance.

Christianity is the most arrogant religion that has ever existed in the history of mankind.

 

[Balthazzar]

Many of us, including myself, sit at our computers and debate various theological concepts, but that is not what Christianity is really about. Instead, we are to behave as Christians. So, what does that mean?

Instead of debating theological and Christological subjects like latter-day Pharisees and Sadducees, we are supposed to treat others with kindness, love and charity. Jesus was not kidding when He said that we should love our neighbors as ourselves (which is actually an Old Testament command). If we someone -- anyone -- in need, it is our responsibility as blessed disciples to help that person -- without regard to nationality, gender, appearance, or any other measure. That is what I mean by the phrase "physical Christianity".

Our Christian life should not be limited to attending church once a week with people like ourselves. Even the Jews who Jesus criticized so sharply attended synagogue weekly. Just like us, they heard God's message, but whom did Jesus cite as an example of true love? A despised Samaritan, not a Jew. In fact, the stricken man was ignored by two Jews! (Now, before I am accused of being anti-Semitic, I am a Jew myself, as was Jesus). We are supposed to give practical aid to everyone in need, regardless of their religion, nationality, gender, social status, or any other measure.

Everyone is created in God's (spiritual) image. All human beings have been created by God and should be treated with kindness and generosity. Don't forget that "the good Samaritan" went "the extra mile" by letting the stricken man stay at the inn at his expense until he returned.

The opposite behavior is exhibited by those who criticized Jesus for healing a man on the Sabbath, as an example. In Matthew 12:10-12, Jesus says "A man was there [in the synagogue] who had a withered hand. And they [the Pharisees] asked Jesus, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” so that they could accuse him. He said to them, “Would not any one of you, if he had one sheep that fell into a pit on the Sabbath, take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” And of course it is understood that if giving aid on the Sabbath is permissible, it is permissible to give aid on the remaining six days.

I am not judging anyone who debates religious issues in online discussions. I do it myself -- as I am right now! -- but that should not replace giving whatever assistance is required to anyone in need. That is the meaning of Matthew 7:12, "In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law and the prophets."

P.S. What verses follow the above? “Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and there are few who find it!"

Honestly, that's an incredibly spacious way of viewing physical Christianity. What I mean is, the brush you paint with is very broad and although the devil is in the details, I prefer day to day, situation by situation determinations when it comes to that specific biblical scripture. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Look, she would have had me screw her, then walk out of her life forever. Why? Because that's her do unto others concept as she would have others do unto her. I won't say that would be wrong of her, I will say it would be wrong for me. We're all different and there are limits to our recompence or recompence expectation. I could suggest that those who aim to harm me, would want me to harm them in return. some maybe, but not all, so as I suggested, a discerning mind is required and every situation different than every other. We are required to utilize our truth when dealing with other people's truth, which is rarely known or understood. Even in kindness it can get tricky. I won't suggest that I wouldn't extend kindness or help others in a time of need, but this is largely dependent upon my ability. For example: The couple were having a domestic dispute. It isn't uncommon for them. She appeared to need help, but after coming to her aid, she turned against the one who stepped up and rendered him. Our pearls are important and very valuable, and we've also been taught not to cast them before swine. I may step up like that for those I love if needed, but don't expect my dog (pearl) to come to someone else's aid when it would certainly jeopardize my life and theirs. This happens enough for those we love to be so careless to do this for those we barely know.

Edit: Other times, it's ok to help even when it might be viewed as something less acceptable. I remember being in the hospital way back when smoking was still allowed. There was an eldery woman with us, she was a smoker with a cough, they (the workers) didn't like her smoking, but we all were and I wasn't about to refuse her a cig when she asked one from me. Most of us were that kind of charitable. Back then, it was a very simple thing and considered a kindness. Nowadays, people see us as demons when we give out something they might find to be unacceptable to them. That's life. You know? Things like this are a far cry from sending or casting out some things I consider to be pearls. Cigs? Who gives a ****? You need me to fight for you, defend you, come to your aid where someone will get hurt, then I'm going to love you before pearl gets involved and I will know you love me like that before I'm able to justify it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's why Christians don't have a good reputation on this board, except with other Christians. People get sick of the arrogance.

Lol, since when do the Christians on here get along with other Christians? Most of the Christians who post regularly have rather bizarre views that don't represent mainstream Christianity at all. There's barely any Catholics or mainstream Protestants on this site. This site attracts theological oddballs.

Christianity is the most arrogant religion that has ever existed in the history of mankind.

Uh huh, sure. Regardless, Baha'i sure is trying to take its place, and for such a tiny almost unknown sect that has existed for less than 200 years, that's really saying something.

 

[Spice]

Lol, since when do the Christians on here get along with other Christians? Most of the Christians who post regularly have rather bizarre views that don't represent mainstream Christianity at all. There's barely any Catholics or mainstream Protestants on this site. This site attracts theological oddballs.

Uh huh, sure. Regardless, Baha'i sure is trying to take its place, and for such a tiny almost unknown sect that has existed for less than 200 years, that's really saying something.

"Theological Oddball" I LIKE it! Now I have another title to add to my belief resumé.

 

[Trailblazer]

Uh huh, sure. Regardless, Baha'i sure is trying to take its place, and for such a tiny almost unknown sect that has existed for less than 200 years, that's really saying something.

The Baha'i Faith will never take Christianity's place because we are not an Only Way religion.

Christianity is the only religion that teaches that that they are the Only Way. (John 14:6)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Baha'i Faith will never take Christianity's place because we are not an Only Way religion.

You just say that now because you lack the numbers, but it does seem to want a sort of Baha'i world government ultimately.

Christianity is the only religion that teaches that that they are the Only Way. (John 14:6)

That's simply not true and I'm surprised you'd make that claim. There's a bunch of religions that teach that, like Islam and even Judaism in a way. It's common for the Abrahamic religions to believe something like that, but not only them.