• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Physical Christianity

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Then why did you defend the Pharisees?
Jesus was a Pharisee. He communicated with his brotherhood. I wasn't defending the Pharisees, I was defending Jesus's position of disagreement.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Jesus was a Pharisee. He communicated with his brotherhood. I wasn't defending the Pharisees, I was defending Jesus's position of disagreement.
Jesus was not a Pharisee. In fact, He disputed their teachings many times. He called them a brood of vipers and accused them of being hypocrites who "clean the outside of the cup" only.

Where did you get the idea that He was a Pharisee?
 
Last edited:

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
When I was an evangelist and street preacher, I often reminded other Christians of 1 Peter 3:15–16 whenever they treated non-Christians (and oftentimes other Christians) with contempt, which frequently included false accusations of hating and/or rebelling against God, as well as extreme sarcasm towards non-Christians whenever they attempted to reason with the Christian. I thought that it was most unfortunate that I had to remind Christians of this Bible passage, as well as remind them to "love your neighbor as yourself," "love your enemies, pray for your enemies, do good to your enemies," and "treat others the way you would like to be treated." I remember thinking how these Christians marred the name of Jesus by their rude and hypocritical judgmental behavior towards non-Christians and even towards other Christians who adhered to different doctrinal beliefs and biblical interpretations. However, they lacked the humility to acknowledge that their behavior was severely tainting their Christian witness and damaging their personal reputation. Honestly, I've seen this kind of self-righteousness among a few professing Christians on this forum. What I've seen so far makes me feel relieved that I'm no longer a Christian.

I am I very different type of Christian than the Christian image you envision to be most useful. I use offensive language as if I was born a sailor. I may have been a sailor once. I utilize the Word as if it's incorruptible, even in offense. I express what I express as it relates to what I understand to be truth, and true, and honest. This is my sincerity. My truth. My honor. My spirit. Right or wrong is often in the eyes of the beholder. Coming correct isn't always easy and sometimes it's more useful to be more temperate, so at the moment I'm learning temperance. I'm not in a hurry. Temperence isn't accomplished with a hard quench in the water after leaving the flame. It's a slow, even cool down of the fervency of spirit within ourselves when it is required for us to return to it.

The flame I mean

It's all consuming you know. At least, Hebrews 12 teaches this much.

All things are acceptable, and all things were declared to be very good in the beginning. Everything isn't beneficial always or for all things. All things are permissible for me, but they aren't always beneficial for me to practice. 1 Corinthians 10:23

I'm also learning discipline as I am tempering. It's like learning discernment and it can be a very long, drawn out process, so patience is required, both from me and from those who must endure that which is my truth, my spirit, and my frame of reference. The same is true for you and everyone else. I guess we simply learn as we go, and I think most of us hope to get along without creating too much turbulence from the opposition between us.

I like this song

 
Last edited:

Jagella

Member
Jesus was not a Pharisee. In fact, He disputed their teachings many times. He called them a brood of vipers and accused them of being hypocrites who "clean the outside of the cup" only.

Where did you get the idea that He was a Pharisee?
I think that it's entirely possible that Jesus had been a Pharisee. Many people have pointed out that Jesus used some of their doctrines in his preaching. Since Jesus accused the Pharisees of being hypocrites, then he may have had some inside information about them. What better way to have that information than to have been one of them.

But I'm forced to speculate. We have little idea of what Jesus ever did especially in the days before his ministry is said to have started.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
One mistake often made about Christianity, is to not look at its long history of success, as a first world entity. That religion could not been as successful, without its people and its followers. Many fixate of Church politics, of the days gone by, but not on the rank and file who would have been needed to maintain the stability capacitance in spite of these policies. This was a combination of works and correct attitude. Over the past 2000 years it is hard to find any other religion with as much influence on the future.

These topics are like critics complaining about a team, and forgetting they won five world championships. Obviously the critics are not coaches, but more like armchair quarterbacks, analyzing the game, the day after it is done; revisionist history.

The concept of turning the other cheek is often misunderstood.

Mathew 10:34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[a]
The enemies spoken of, one's household are the enemies in your own mind. This could be an ethnic attachment, that makes you discount others who are not with the clan. Or if you are by the book, and someone does not follow the book, that enemy you see, is your own creation, by your excessive strictness. The other person may not consciously do anything to hurt you, but rather you let it hurt you, due to a code, and act like it is crime. Freedom of speech is taken away by those who let "noises" bother them. Turn the other cheek, means man-up and don't be a wimp, so words can come and go, and no harm is done so free speech can reign.

Turn the other cheek, is not about genuine offenses against you; sticks and stones. You may not like a person due to racism. This anger is not due to the actions of the other person, who minds their own business. But this is due to your bias creating a perceived offense. Turn the other cheek was about the process of becoming self aware, until all those self impose subjective judgements are no longer there. Life becomes much easier and less stressful. Following Jesus and the Spirit, was blasphemy to man. This subjective enemy would divide families even though those who love the spirit were peaceful and do not real harm to the family, beyond the subjective violation.

So many Democrats blame Trump based on fake news conditioning, and not base on any direct harm to them, personally. It is like a version of racism which the Left excels in. Often what is projected as a future harm, is not yet real, like Trump will morph into Hitler. Turn the other cheek, is about doing a self assessment, to make sure there is something tangible, and the punishment is worth an actual physical crime. The perception of crime, connected to your own emotional problems and bias, but lacking of contact with reality, driving your unconscious hate and fear, is a faux violation. Turn the cheek is about the realization, there was never any real enemies among your brothers and sisters

Christianity, was already a very large group, and there was enough work, just getting along with your neighbors, avoiding adding emotional baggage for each other's projected problems and wants, that were not really there. Take a step back, count to ten, and see if this was just a grudge reflex. Often siblings may have blowouts for trivial reasons, that lead to walls of judgement. It is better to come to terms, by turning the other cheek, as a peace offering. In the end, you will not lose family time together.

If you look at young Palestinian immigrants, who may have had a good life in the US, why hate Jews when there is no direct evidence that you suffered, as much as you hate? That extra hate is all in your head, even if you assume you are a self appointed avenging angel. Turn the other cheek, starts healing in your own soul. Christians learned to do this, which leads to psychological health and cooperation, without needing a mutual projected enemy, like Liberalism.

There is enough work for each person to learn to control their own weaknesses and not be abusive to others. Liberals want a punching bag for their own projected problems, but it is not healthy for anyone to accommodate this. Healthy is about controlling the enemies of your own mind and release as many as possible.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
One mistake often made about Christianity, is to not look at its long history of success, as a first world entity. That religion could not been as successful, without its people and its followers. Many fixate of Church politics, of the days gone by, but not on the rank and file who would have been needed to maintain the stability capacitance in spite of these policies. This was a combination of works and correct attitude. Over the past 2000 years it is hard to find any other religion with as much influence on the future.

These topics are like critics complaining about a team, and forgetting they won five world championships. Obviously the critics are not coaches, but more like armchair quarterbacks, analyzing the game, the day after it is done; revisionist history.

The concept of turning the other cheek is often misunderstood.


The enemies spoken of, one's household are the enemies in your own mind. This could be an ethnic attachment, that makes you discount others who are not with the clan. Or if you are by the book, and someone does not follow the book, that enemy you see, is your own creation, by your excessive strictness. The other person may not consciously do anything to hurt you, but rather you let it hurt you, due to a code, and act like it is crime. Freedom of speech is taken away by those who let "noises" bother them. Turn the other cheek, means man-up and don't be a wimp, so words can come and go, and no harm is done so free speech can reign.

Turn the other cheek, is not about genuine offenses against you; sticks and stones. You may not like a person due to racism. This anger is not due to the actions of the other person, who minds their own business. But this is due to your bias creating a perceived offense. Turn the other cheek was about the process of becoming self aware, until all those self impose subjective judgements are no longer there. Life becomes much easier and less stressful. Following Jesus and the Spirit, was blasphemy to man. This subjective enemy would divide families even though those who love the spirit were peaceful and do not real harm to the family, beyond the subjective violation.

So many Democrats blame Trump based on fake news conditioning, and not base on any direct harm to them, personally. It is like a version of racism which the Left excels in. Often what is projected as a future harm, is not yet real, like Trump will morph into Hitler. Turn the other cheek, is about doing a self assessment, to make sure there is something tangible, and the punishment is worth an actual physical crime. The perception of crime, connected to your own emotional problems and bias, but lacking of contact with reality, driving your unconscious hate and fear, is a faux violation. Turn the cheek is about the realization, there was never any real enemies among your brothers and sisters

Christianity, was already a very large group, and there was enough work, just getting along with your neighbors, avoiding adding emotional baggage for each other's projected problems and wants, that were not really there. Take a step back, count to ten, and see if this was just a grudge reflex. Often siblings may have blowouts for trivial reasons, that lead to walls of judgement. It is better to come to terms, by turning the other cheek, as a peace offering. In the end, you will not lose family time together.

If you look at young Palestinian immigrants, who may have had a good life in the US, why hate Jews when there is no direct evidence that you suffered, as much as you hate? That extra hate is all in your head, even if you assume you are a self appointed avenging angel. Turn the other cheek, starts healing in your own soul. Christians learned to do this, which leads to psychological health and cooperation, without needing a mutual projected enemy, like Liberalism.

There is enough work for each person to learn to control their own weaknesses and not be abusive to others. Liberals want a punching bag for their own projected problems, but it is not healthy for anyone to accommodate this. Healthy is about controlling the enemies of your own mind and release as many as possible.
I appreciate what you wrote, or at least most of it. It is well thought out and is real food for thought.

Except the absurd statement about Donald Trump. How any Christian could even think of supporting a confused, sadistic old man who has been convicted of 34(!) felonies because he covered up his payoffs to a PORN STAR by hiding them as legitimate business expenses. Or his conviction for sexual abuse, which was appealed and the settlement was increased. Or a person who steals the most sensitive Federal documents and keeps them in boxes at his residence (which makes one wonder why. For sale to foreign governments?) A person who admires the most violent dictators and slams the NATO alliance. Or boasts that he can grab a woman by the ***** because he is famous? Who states that there are millions of violent criminals crossing the US southern border, and they should be put in concentration camps (LIKE HITLER!!!). (BTW, on this subject, I live in New Mexico and I have seen ZERO EVIDENCE of this lie. ZERO). He falsely claims that Haitians are eating peoples' pets, and that they (as legal immigrants) should be deported to Venezuela. And finally, he orchestrated the most violent attack on our constitutional government since the South seceded from the country and did absolutely nothing to stop it, even though he KNEW that he had lost the election! I could go on and on, but it is clear that this confused, sadistic, criminal liar shouldn't be anywhere the Oval Office ever again! The perception of innocence, connected to your own emotional problems and bias, but lacking of contact with reality, driving your unconscious hate and fear, is a faux violation.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You mean you know what the Baha'i religion says about Christianity and what Baha'i says the "real" meanings of the Bible are. It's the same with Baha'is and every other religion, thinking they know what those religions "really" teach and they need to be rescued from their wrong thinking by Baha'i religion. That's why Baha'i religion doesn't have a good reputation on this board. People get sick of the arrogance. But I guess Baha'is are playing a role in world peace, as you've gotten Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. all to be against you. Lol.

That is funny? Really?
 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Jesus was not a Pharisee. In fact, He disputed their teachings many times. He called them a brood of vipers and accused them of being hypocrites who "clean the outside of the cup" only.

Where did you get the idea that He was a Pharisee?
If he were not a Pharisee, what faction do you believe he ascribed to?

John the Baptist was Essene, correct? Jesus was enthralled and influenced by Essene thought, and perhaps leaned that way, however, he carried himself as a Pharisee. He was of modest means, educated in Torah, and was comfortable in discussions and challenges with known Pharisees. Even at the age of 12, according to the Gospels, he was drawn to challenging thought.

I also believe you'll find that modern day Jews, such as Hyam Maccoby and Amy-Jill Levine, that have examined the historic Jesus agree he was an outspoken Pharisee. Jesus generally taught the same theology as Hillel the Elder from previous times, who was indeed Pharisee taught, and became the Nasi of the Sanhedrin. The Sanhedrin was made up from both Pharisees and Sadducees. Nicodemus was also member of the Sanhedrin as a Pharisee.
 

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If he were not a Pharisee, what faction do you believe he ascribed to?

John the Baptist was Essene, correct? Jesus was enthralled and influenced by Essene thought, and perhaps leaned that way, however, he carried himself as a Pharisee. He was of modest means, educated in Torah, and was comfortable in discussions and challenges with known Pharisees. Even at the age of 12, according to the Gospels, he was drawn to challenging thought.

I also believe you'll find that modern day Jews, such as Hyam Maccoby and Amy-Jill Levine, that have examined the historic Jesus agree he was an outspoken Pharisee. Jesus generally taught the same theology as Hillel the Elder from previous times, who was indeed Pharisee taught, and became the Nasi of the Sanhedrin. The Sanhedrin was made up from both Pharisees and Sadducees. Nicodemus was also member of the Sanhedrin as a Pharisee.
He "ascribed" to what He learned from His Father in heaven. He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life". He taught a new doctrine.. He was neither an Essene nor a Pharisee. He taught an entirely new doctrine that far surpassed that of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, etc.

Remember in John 3:10 when Jesus said to Nicodemus "Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?"
 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
He "ascribed" to what He learned from His Father in heaven. He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life". He taught a new doctrine.. He was neither an Essene nor a Pharisee. He taught an entirely new doctrine that far surpassed that of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, etc.

Remember in John 3:10 when Jesus said to Nicodemus "Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?"
He was not only "Son of God," but also "Son of Man." His humanity should never be overshadowed by his being the Father's firstborn of the dead, IMO.

I believe that Jesus's doctrine was not new. He simply re-empathized the priorities. God's hopes and dreams for His creation have never changed. He wants the same for us, today, as He wanted for Adam & Eve, and Jesus, IMB, was chosen, appointed/annointed, to highlight the path for the new age in giving us The Way.

All the additions tacted on by man for prestige and power over the centuries have just redirected the simple, basic message we all have embedded in our hearts when the Father puts the breathe of life, our souls, into our worldly bodies.

Be kind, love and care for one another, being God's hands in this physical plain to the best of our abilities.
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Question: Doing unto others as we would have others do unto us seems acceptable, but the points I've been making bring into question other variables that may be applicable.

I stuck a knife in my leg once about an inch to an inch and a half deep. I don't like bleeding like this, but I'm the type of guy who has a conscience and we live in a world with very dangerous people. My thinking? I won't do to you anything I wouldn't do to myself first. It was my way of justifying the possible need to endure this type of action, otherwise I might feel unjustified in doing something that could possibly be required of me one day. Does this make it right? Would this add anything to the action if ever required? I'm a defense only type of person, and I reserve this typically to be utilized only for those people I Iove most in life. I guess it was my way of proving something. I think mostly to myself, but I'm not even sure. I do know I'm a very peaceful man. I also know love to be fierce.

I also know I spend my life turning my cheek. It's like an insurance policy and my premiums being paid as I go. If I'm ever required to utilize more forceful action such as that mentioned above, I intend to be blameless in my doing so.
 
Last edited:

Andrew Stephen

Stephen Andrew
Premium Member
Peace to all,

True, we know, Forgive first, remain blameless, spotless in the becoming of the Will of Creation.

In logic and through faith in The Christ, we are reborn, from first born created mortal and corrupt from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being becoming immortal and incorruptible from the Baptism of John in the living waters of the Sanctified Will of Creation. The Holy Spirit Person of God becomes in the Soul through the Word becomes flesh and is shared becoming the immortal and incorruptible Body becoming the Christ from the Holy Spirit through the flesh delivered for the Souls of Jesus becoming again the manifestation of our being shared in union with all mankind.

And we are saved as we become again through Penance and Sacrifice in Confirmation re-Sanctified in our own soul through Atonement of sin in Confession and hearing the Words of Absolution forgiven in Penance and Sacrifice of The Host that transforms and transfigures through contact of Jesus in the Will of The Father as The Christ uniting Creation. We become again in union with all mankind as one in being together with the Father and the Son glorified and transfigured as the image of The Creator God for The Father.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
 
Last edited:

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Peace to all,

True, we know, Forgive first, remain blameless, spotless in the becoming of the Will of Creation.

In logic and through faith in The Christ, we are reborn, from first born created mortal and corrupt from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being becoming immortal and incorruptible from the Baptism of John in the living waters of the Sanctified Will of Creation. The Holy Spirit Person of God becomes in the Soul through the Word becomes flesh and is shared becoming the immortal and incorruptible Body becoming the Christ from the Holy Spirit through the flesh delivered for the Souls of Jesus becoming again the manifestation of our being shared in union with all mankind.

And we are saved as we become again through Penance and Sacrifice in Confirmation re-Sanctified in our own soul through Atonement of sin in Confession and hearing the Words of Absolution forgiven in Penance and Sacrifice of The Host that transforms and transfigures through contact of Jesus in the Will of The Father as The Christ uniting Creation. We become again in union with all mankind as one in being together with the Father and the Son glorified and transfigured as the image of The Creator God for The Father.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

I've noticed a dynamic in life between people and types of people. I've noted that our values become us and that we can become our values, which leads me to other types of people who may or may not be like me but have qualities that I perceive to be valuable. I think what you share above illustrates this very well.
 

Andrew Stephen

Stephen Andrew
Premium Member
Peace to all,

Thanks, and to me the logic is the same that follows the Kingdom of The Divine Will Louisa Piccarreta speaks of and models the Trinity of the Body as the Trinity of the Godhead. To me Louisa confirmed in the logic and through faith and to me is what will Jesus do in all cases of fulfilled faith and morality.

To me in logic, the "Values" are the state of the spirit and we become the state of the spirit through manifestation. The works of the flesh manifests the being in the body and the last know good state of the spirit is in the becoming, what will become from choice. We in logic become from the intelligence of the selected spirit from choice, the spirit manifested through the flesh for the soul of the being. To me in logic, Jesus is conceived in the Holy Spirit intelligence and is the Will of Creation as The Word, the Person of the Holy Spirit conceived in the Person of Jesus as The Christ, through the Immaculate Conception in the Virgin Birth of The Christ in logic, two people of the Trinity in one being becoming again the image of creation as one in being together with the Father and The Son, glorified and transfigured. The Christ is in logic, the mind of God and is the Word, The Person of the Holy Spirit in the Person of Jesus as The Christ becoming all mankind, Baptized, becoming from mortal and corrupt to immortal and incorruptible. And we become again through all of the Wondrous mysteries in the Faith. The Holy Spirit Will of The Creator God is in logic and faith to me made clear in logic from Louisa Piccarreta and her writings in the papers she wrote as, "Little Daughter of the Divine Will" in The Kingdom of The Divine Will and is the intelligence that manifests from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being we know to do exactaly, "What Jesus would do in all cases of fulfilled faith and morality."

To me in logic, the keys to the kingdom are given to those who realize The Christ, The Person of Jesus in the Mind of God is The Word and together is God and through the New Living Temple and in the New Living Sacrifice and everything The Christ taught on earth and in heaven we become again as one in being.

Peace always,
Stephen andrew
 
Last edited:

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Peace to all,

Thanks, and to me the logic is the same that follows the Kingdom of The Divine Will Louisa Piccarreta speaks of and models the Trinity of the Body as the Trinity of the Godhead. To me Louisa confirmed in the logic and through faith and to me is what will Jesus do in all cases of fulfilled faith and morality.

To me in logic, the "Values" are the state of the spirit and we become the state of the spirit through manifestation. The works of the flesh manifests the being in the body and the last know good state of the spirit is in the becoming, what will become from choice. We in logic become from the intelligence of the selected spirit from choice, the spirit manifested through the flesh for the soul of the being. To me in logic, Jesus is conceived in the Holy Spirit intelligence and is the Will of Creation as The Word, the Person of the Holy Spirit conceived in the Person of Jesus as The Christ, through the Immaculate Conception in the Virgin Birth of The Christ in logic, two people of the Trinity in one being becoming again the image of creation as one in being together with the Father and The Son, glorified and transfigured. The Christ is in logic, the mind of God and is the Word, The Person of the Holy Spirit in the Person of Jesus as The Christ becoming all mankind, Baptized, becoming from mortal and corrupt to immortal and incorruptible. And we become again through all of the Wondrous mysteries in the Faith. The Holy Spirit Will of The Creator God is in logic and faith to me made clear in logic from Louisa Piccarreta and her writings in the papers she wrote as, "Little Daughter of the Divine Will" in The Kingdom of The Divine Will and is the intelligence that manifests from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being to do exactaly, "What Jesus would do in all cases of fulfilled faith and morality."

Peace always,
Stephen andrew

I am ignorant of her contributions, but less so now. Thank you for sharing. I'm learning as I go. This much I know to have been necessitated. The seeds sown over the span of a lifetime in the minds of all who might represent the body or ground for the seeds to manifest and take root in amount to what we hear to understand, and what we experience to process as people.

I think that maybe this premise is in line with your above post.
 

Andrew Stephen

Stephen Andrew
Premium Member
Peace to all,

True, thanks and in logic, perhaps never before quite seen:

To me in logic and faith and keeping with the Op's "Physical Christianity," we are created mortal and corrupt, becoming transformed immortal and incorruptible and becoming again, glorified and transfigured.

The logic of the First Pentecost is of the Immaculate Conception and The Queen of Heaven, Mary.

In logic to me is the will of creation first came to Mary in 0AD (Anno Domini) Latin for the Beginning of Church time when Mary said, "Let it be done to me in accordance to Your Will." The Will of Creation first becomes to the logical "First Pentecost" and the manifestation of God in man first in Mary's spirit and flesh becoming immortal and incorruptible from the Holy Spirit through Mary's flesh for the soul of Mary's being in the Body of The Immaculate Conception, Mary and the First Disciple of Christ. And through the Virgin Birth of the Firstborn Christ, Jesus in 33 AD the blood and water flowed from the Cross. Christ birth from the cross is the "Firstborn" Christ Delivered to earth in the New Ark of the Covenant through the New Eve, Mary, The Mother of God and the "Christ" birth back to Heaven from where He came reopens the gates of Heaven for all mankind becoming from mortal and corrupt reborn immortalized and made incorruptible and become again glorified and saved as transfigured.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
 
Last edited:

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Peace to all,

True, thanks and in logic, perhaps never before quite seen:

To me in logic and faith and keeping with the Op's "Physical Christianity," we are created mortal and corrupt, becoming transformed immortal and incorruptible and becoming again, glorified and transfigured.

The logic of the First Pentecost is of the Immaculate Conception and The Queen of Heaven, Mary.

In logic to me is the will of creation first came to Mary in 0AD (Anno Domini) Latin for the Beginning of Church time when Mary said, "Let it be done to me in accordance to Your Will." The Will of Creation first becomes to the logical "First Pentecost" and the manifestation of God in man first in Mary's spirit and flesh becoming immortal and incorruptible from the Holy Spirit through Mary's flesh for the soul of Mary's being in the Body of The Immaculate Conception, Mary and the First Disciple of Christ. And through the Virgin Birth of the Firstborn Christ, Jesus in 33 AD the blood and water flowed from the Cross. Christ birth from the cross is the "Firstborn" Christ Delivered to earth in the New Ark of the Covenant through the New Eve, Mary, The Mother of God and the "Christ" birth back to Heaven from where He came reopens the gates of Heaven for all mankind becoming from mortal and corrupt reborn immortalized and made incorruptible and become again glorified and saved as transfigured.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

This is beyond my current understanding, but to follow this line of reasoning, it could be similar to what is written in Hebrews 12 about that which is shakable (corrupt) in contrast to that which isn't shakable (incorrupt), so it's about that which is most enduring, and this would appear to be an ever changing, transformative process of continual becoming.
 

Andrew Stephen

Stephen Andrew
Premium Member
Peace to all,

So true, Balthazzar,

At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”[e] 27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

Rebirth of the Christ back to Heaven from the Cross for all mankind. In logic and through faith, Created, Transformed and Transfigured, Heaven and Earth, The New Heaven.

But Jesus, again crying out loudly, breathed his last. At that moment, the Temple curtain was ripped in two, top to bottom. There was an earthquake, and rocks were split in pieces. What’s more, tombs were opened up, and many bodies of believers asleep in their graves were raised. (After Jesus’ resurrection, they left the tombs, entered the holy city, and appeared to many.) The captain of the guard and those with him, when they saw the earthquake and everything else that was happening, were scared to death. They said, “This has to be the Son of God!” There were also quite a few women watching from a distance, women who had followed Jesus from Galilee in order to serve him. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the Zebedee brothers.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
 
Top