Physical Christianity

[Jagella]

Add me to the 99% who want nothing to do with you.

Just watch out for the door as you run out of it.

 

[Spice]

Then why did you defend the Pharisees?

Jesus was a Pharisee. He communicated with his brotherhood. I wasn't defending the Pharisees, I was defending Jesus's position of disagreement.

 

[jimb]

Jesus was a Pharisee. He communicated with his brotherhood. I wasn't defending the Pharisees, I was defending Jesus's position of disagreement.

Jesus was not a Pharisee. In fact, He disputed their teachings many times. He called them a brood of vipers and accused them of being hypocrites who "clean the outside of the cup" only.

Where did you get the idea that He was a Pharisee?

 

[Balthazzar]

When I was an evangelist and street preacher, I often reminded other Christians of 1 Peter 3:15–16 whenever they treated non-Christians (and oftentimes other Christians) with contempt, which frequently included false accusations of hating and/or rebelling against God, as well as extreme sarcasm towards non-Christians whenever they attempted to reason with the Christian. I thought that it was most unfortunate that I had to remind Christians of this Bible passage, as well as remind them to "love your neighbor as yourself," "love your enemies, pray for your enemies, do good to your enemies," and "treat others the way you would like to be treated." I remember thinking how these Christians marred the name of Jesus by their rude and hypocritical judgmental behavior towards non-Christians and even towards other Christians who adhered to different doctrinal beliefs and biblical interpretations. However, they lacked the humility to acknowledge that their behavior was severely tainting their Christian witness and damaging their personal reputation. Honestly, I've seen this kind of self-righteousness among a few professing Christians on this forum. What I've seen so far makes me feel relieved that I'm no longer a Christian.

I am I very different type of Christian than the Christian image you envision to be most useful. I use offensive language as if I was born a sailor. I may have been a sailor once. I utilize the Word as if it's incorruptible, even in offense. I express what I express as it relates to what I understand to be truth, and true, and honest. This is my sincerity. My truth. My honor. My spirit. Right or wrong is often in the eyes of the beholder. Coming correct isn't always easy and sometimes it's more useful to be more temperate, so at the moment I'm learning temperance. I'm not in a hurry. Temperence isn't accomplished with a hard quench in the water after leaving the flame. It's a slow, even cool down of the fervency of spirit within ourselves when it is required for us to return to it.

The flame I mean

It's all consuming you know. At least, Hebrews 12 teaches this much.

All things are acceptable, and all things were declared to be very good in the beginning. Everything isn't beneficial always or for all things. All things are permissible for me, but they aren't always beneficial for me to practice. 1 Corinthians 10:23

I'm also learning discipline as I am tempering. It's like learning discernment and it can be a very long, drawn out process, so patience is required, both from me and from those who must endure that which is my truth, my spirit, and my frame of reference. The same is true for you and everyone else. I guess we simply learn as we go, and I think most of us hope to get along without creating too much turbulence from the opposition between us.

I like this song

 

[Jagella]

Jesus was not a Pharisee. In fact, He disputed their teachings many times. He called them a brood of vipers and accused them of being hypocrites who "clean the outside of the cup" only.

Where did you get the idea that He was a Pharisee?

I think that it's entirely possible that Jesus had been a Pharisee. Many people have pointed out that Jesus used some of their doctrines in his preaching. Since Jesus accused the Pharisees of being hypocrites, then he may have had some inside information about them. What better way to have that information than to have been one of them.

But I'm forced to speculate. We have little idea of what Jesus ever did especially in the days before his ministry is said to have started.

 

[wellwisher]

One mistake often made about Christianity, is to not look at its long history of success, as a first world entity. That religion could not been as successful, without its people and its followers. Many fixate of Church politics, of the days gone by, but not on the rank and file who would have been needed to maintain the stability capacitance in spite of these policies. This was a combination of works and correct attitude. Over the past 2000 years it is hard to find any other religion with as much influence on the future.

These topics are like critics complaining about a team, and forgetting they won five world championships. Obviously the critics are not coaches, but more like armchair quarterbacks, analyzing the game, the day after it is done; revisionist history.

The concept of turning the other cheek is often misunderstood.

Mathew 10:34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[a]

The enemies spoken of, one's household are the enemies in your own mind. This could be an ethnic attachment, that makes you discount others who are not with the clan. Or if you are by the book, and someone does not follow the book, that enemy you see, is your own creation, by your excessive strictness. The other person may not consciously do anything to hurt you, but rather you let it hurt you, due to a code, and act like it is crime. Freedom of speech is taken away by those who let "noises" bother them. Turn the other cheek, means man-up and don't be a wimp, so words can come and go, and no harm is done so free speech can reign.

Turn the other cheek, is not about genuine offenses against you; sticks and stones. You may not like a person due to racism. This anger is not due to the actions of the other person, who minds their own business. But this is due to your bias creating a perceived offense. Turn the other cheek was about the process of becoming self aware, until all those self impose subjective judgements are no longer there. Life becomes much easier and less stressful. Following Jesus and the Spirit, was blasphemy to man. This subjective enemy would divide families even though those who love the spirit were peaceful and do not real harm to the family, beyond the subjective violation.

So many Democrats blame Trump based on fake news conditioning, and not base on any direct harm to them, personally. It is like a version of racism which the Left excels in. Often what is projected as a future harm, is not yet real, like Trump will morph into Hitler. Turn the other cheek, is about doing a self assessment, to make sure there is something tangible, and the punishment is worth an actual physical crime. The perception of crime, connected to your own emotional problems and bias, but lacking of contact with reality, driving your unconscious hate and fear, is a faux violation. Turn the cheek is about the realization, there was never any real enemies among your brothers and sisters

Christianity, was already a very large group, and there was enough work, just getting along with your neighbors, avoiding adding emotional baggage for each other's projected problems and wants, that were not really there. Take a step back, count to ten, and see if this was just a grudge reflex. Often siblings may have blowouts for trivial reasons, that lead to walls of judgement. It is better to come to terms, by turning the other cheek, as a peace offering. In the end, you will not lose family time together.

If you look at young Palestinian immigrants, who may have had a good life in the US, why hate Jews when there is no direct evidence that you suffered, as much as you hate? That extra hate is all in your head, even if you assume you are a self appointed avenging angel. Turn the other cheek, starts healing in your own soul. Christians learned to do this, which leads to psychological health and cooperation, without needing a mutual projected enemy, like Liberalism.

There is enough work for each person to learn to control their own weaknesses and not be abusive to others. Liberals want a punching bag for their own projected problems, but it is not healthy for anyone to accommodate this. Healthy is about controlling the enemies of your own mind and release as many as possible.

 

[jimb]

One mistake often made about Christianity, is to not look at its long history of success, as a first world entity. That religion could not been as successful, without its people and its followers. Many fixate of Church politics, of the days gone by, but not on the rank and file who would have been needed to maintain the stability capacitance in spite of these policies. This was a combination of works and correct attitude. Over the past 2000 years it is hard to find any other religion with as much influence on the future.

These topics are like critics complaining about a team, and forgetting they won five world championships. Obviously the critics are not coaches, but more like armchair quarterbacks, analyzing the game, the day after it is done; revisionist history.

The concept of turning the other cheek is often misunderstood.


The enemies spoken of, one's household are the enemies in your own mind. This could be an ethnic attachment, that makes you discount others who are not with the clan. Or if you are by the book, and someone does not follow the book, that enemy you see, is your own creation, by your excessive strictness. The other person may not consciously do anything to hurt you, but rather you let it hurt you, due to a code, and act like it is crime. Freedom of speech is taken away by those who let "noises" bother them. Turn the other cheek, means man-up and don't be a wimp, so words can come and go, and no harm is done so free speech can reign.

Turn the other cheek, is not about genuine offenses against you; sticks and stones. You may not like a person due to racism. This anger is not due to the actions of the other person, who minds their own business. But this is due to your bias creating a perceived offense. Turn the other cheek was about the process of becoming self aware, until all those self impose subjective judgements are no longer there. Life becomes much easier and less stressful. Following Jesus and the Spirit, was blasphemy to man. This subjective enemy would divide families even though those who love the spirit were peaceful and do not real harm to the family, beyond the subjective violation.

So many Democrats blame Trump based on fake news conditioning, and not base on any direct harm to them, personally. It is like a version of racism which the Left excels in. Often what is projected as a future harm, is not yet real, like Trump will morph into Hitler. Turn the other cheek, is about doing a self assessment, to make sure there is something tangible, and the punishment is worth an actual physical crime. The perception of crime, connected to your own emotional problems and bias, but lacking of contact with reality, driving your unconscious hate and fear, is a faux violation. Turn the cheek is about the realization, there was never any real enemies among your brothers and sisters

Christianity, was already a very large group, and there was enough work, just getting along with your neighbors, avoiding adding emotional baggage for each other's projected problems and wants, that were not really there. Take a step back, count to ten, and see if this was just a grudge reflex. Often siblings may have blowouts for trivial reasons, that lead to walls of judgement. It is better to come to terms, by turning the other cheek, as a peace offering. In the end, you will not lose family time together.

If you look at young Palestinian immigrants, who may have had a good life in the US, why hate Jews when there is no direct evidence that you suffered, as much as you hate? That extra hate is all in your head, even if you assume you are a self appointed avenging angel. Turn the other cheek, starts healing in your own soul. Christians learned to do this, which leads to psychological health and cooperation, without needing a mutual projected enemy, like Liberalism.

There is enough work for each person to learn to control their own weaknesses and not be abusive to others. Liberals want a punching bag for their own projected problems, but it is not healthy for anyone to accommodate this. Healthy is about controlling the enemies of your own mind and release as many as possible.

I appreciate what you wrote, or at least most of it. It is well thought out and is real food for thought.

Except the absurd statement about Donald Trump. How any Christian could even think of supporting a confused, sadistic old man who has been convicted of 34(!) felonies because he covered up his payoffs to a PORN STAR by hiding them as legitimate business expenses. Or his conviction for sexual abuse, which was appealed and the settlement was increased. Or a person who steals the most sensitive Federal documents and keeps them in boxes at his residence (which makes one wonder why. For sale to foreign governments?) A person who admires the most violent dictators and slams the NATO alliance. Or boasts that he can grab a woman by the ***** because he is famous? Who states that there are millions of violent criminals crossing the US southern border, and they should be put in concentration camps (LIKE HITLER!!!). (BTW, on this subject, I live in New Mexico and I have seen ZERO EVIDENCE of this lie. ZERO). He falsely claims that Haitians are eating peoples' pets, and that they (as legal immigrants) should be deported to Venezuela. And finally, he orchestrated the most violent attack on our constitutional government since the South seceded from the country and did absolutely nothing to stop it, even though he KNEW that he had lost the election! I could go on and on, but it is clear that this confused, sadistic, criminal liar shouldn't be anywhere the Oval Office ever again! The perception of innocence, connected to your own emotional problems and bias, but lacking of contact with reality, driving your unconscious hate and fear, is a faux violation.

 

[jimb]

You mean you know what the Baha'i religion says about Christianity and what Baha'i says the "real" meanings of the Bible are. It's the same with Baha'is and every other religion, thinking they know what those religions "really" teach and they need to be rescued from their wrong thinking by Baha'i religion. That's why Baha'i religion doesn't have a good reputation on this board. People get sick of the arrogance. But I guess Baha'is are playing a role in world peace, as you've gotten Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. all to be against you. Lol.

That is funny? Really?

 

[Spice]

Jesus was not a Pharisee. In fact, He disputed their teachings many times. He called them a brood of vipers and accused them of being hypocrites who "clean the outside of the cup" only.

Where did you get the idea that He was a Pharisee?

If he were not a Pharisee, what faction do you believe he ascribed to?

John the Baptist was Essene, correct? Jesus was enthralled and influenced by Essene thought, and perhaps leaned that way, however, he carried himself as a Pharisee. He was of modest means, educated in Torah, and was comfortable in discussions and challenges with known Pharisees. Even at the age of 12, according to the Gospels, he was drawn to challenging thought.

I also believe you'll find that modern day Jews, such as Hyam Maccoby and Amy-Jill Levine, that have examined the historic Jesus agree he was an outspoken Pharisee. Jesus generally taught the same theology as Hillel the Elder from previous times, who was indeed Pharisee taught, and became the Nasi of the Sanhedrin. The Sanhedrin was made up from both Pharisees and Sadducees. Nicodemus was also member of the Sanhedrin as a Pharisee.

 

[jimb]

If he were not a Pharisee, what faction do you believe he ascribed to?

John the Baptist was Essene, correct? Jesus was enthralled and influenced by Essene thought, and perhaps leaned that way, however, he carried himself as a Pharisee. He was of modest means, educated in Torah, and was comfortable in discussions and challenges with known Pharisees. Even at the age of 12, according to the Gospels, he was drawn to challenging thought.

I also believe you'll find that modern day Jews, such as Hyam Maccoby and Amy-Jill Levine, that have examined the historic Jesus agree he was an outspoken Pharisee. Jesus generally taught the same theology as Hillel the Elder from previous times, who was indeed Pharisee taught, and became the Nasi of the Sanhedrin. The Sanhedrin was made up from both Pharisees and Sadducees. Nicodemus was also member of the Sanhedrin as a Pharisee.

He "ascribed" to what He learned from His Father in heaven. He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life". He taught a new doctrine.. He was neither an Essene nor a Pharisee. He taught an entirely new doctrine that far surpassed that of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, etc.

Remember in John 3:10 when Jesus said to Nicodemus "Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?"

 

[Spice]

He "ascribed" to what He learned from His Father in heaven. He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life". He taught a new doctrine.. He was neither an Essene nor a Pharisee. He taught an entirely new doctrine that far surpassed that of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, etc.

Remember in John 3:10 when Jesus said to Nicodemus "Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?"

He was not only "Son of God," but also "Son of Man." His humanity should never be overshadowed by his being the Father's firstborn of the dead, IMO.

I believe that Jesus's doctrine was not new. He simply re-empathized the priorities. God's hopes and dreams for His creation have never changed. He wants the same for us, today, as He wanted for Adam & Eve, and Jesus, IMB, was chosen, appointed/annointed, to highlight the path for the new age in giving us The Way.

All the additions tacted on by man for prestige and power over the centuries have just redirected the simple, basic message we all have embedded in our hearts when the Father puts the breathe of life, our souls, into our worldly bodies.

Be kind, love and care for one another, being God's hands in this physical plain to the best of our abilities.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That is funny? Really?

It's called sarcasm.

 

[Balthazzar]

Question: Doing unto others as we would have others do unto us seems acceptable, but the points I've been making bring into question other variables that may be applicable.

I stuck a knife in my leg once about an inch to an inch and a half deep. I don't like bleeding like this, but I'm the type of guy who has a conscience and we live in a world with very dangerous people. My thinking? I won't do to you anything I wouldn't do to myself first. It was my way of justifying the possible need to endure this type of action, otherwise I might feel unjustified in doing something that could possibly be required of me one day. Does this make it right? Would this add anything to the action if ever required? I'm a defense only type of person, and I reserve this typically to be utilized only for those people I Iove most in life. I guess it was my way of proving something. I think mostly to myself, but I'm not even sure. I do know I'm a very peaceful man. I also know love to be fierce.

I also know I spend my life turning my cheek. It's like an insurance policy and my premiums being paid as I go. If I'm ever required to utilize more forceful action such as that mentioned above, I intend to be blameless in my doing so.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Are you an atheist posing as a Christian to make Christians look bad? You might as well be.

I think that this is a valid question. I can't help but wonder now because I was once a member of a forum where atheists were caught pretending to be Christians in an effort to incite conflict and spark heated debates. They were rude, obnoxious, condescending, and pompously judgmental. They would goad, slander, and bully others while deceptively hiding behind a Christian identity. However, being rude, obnoxious, and condescending towards others appears to be the norm for most Christians, whether online and in person. I've known my fair share, which contributed to my decision to leave Christianity.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Is this supposed to be a joke? Are you an atheist posing as a Christian to make Christians look bad? You might as well be.

Since the subject of this thread is physical Christianity and how Christians should live according to the Bible, I thought I'd include the following:

According to the Bible:

Christians are to love their neighbor as themselves, love their enemies, do good to their enemies, pray for their enemies, turn the other cheek, go the extra mile, treat others the way they want to be treated, be ambassadors for Christ, to always be prepared to give a gentle and respectful answer to anyone who asks them about the hope they have in them, and to let their light so shine before that they will see their good works and glorify their father in heaven.

This is also in the Bible: "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." (Matthew 7:16-20). It is also written that from out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks (Matthew 12:34; Mark 7:21-23; Luke 6:45) as well as Christians taming their tongue (James 3), emphasis on verses 9–12, and refrain from speaking anything unwholesome but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs and may benefit those who listen (Eph. 4:29).

In my opinion, it's perfectly clear that Christians, whether online or in person, have a bad habit of demonstrating what the Bible describes as works of the flesh, as described in Galatians 5:19–21. I see it happen daily here on RF, in this thread, and in many, many other threads on this forum. I'm referring to hatred, contentions, discord, fits of rage, and dissension. They bicker amongst themselves and belittle one another, or they belittle non-Christians, who not only challenge the validity of Christianity but also flatly reject it. These Christians fail to demonstrate what the Bible describes as fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. I think that it is especially true on RF. In fact, I also think it's one of the worst representations of Christianity I've ever seen, both online and in person. If I were still a Christian, I would be dismayed and ashamed of it.

 

[Balthazzar]

Since the subject of this thread is physical Christianity and how Christians should live according to the Bible, I thought I'd include the following:

According to the Bible:

Christians are to love their neighbor as themselves, love their enemies, do good to their enemies, pray for their enemies, turn the other cheek, go the extra mile, treat others the way they want to be treated, be ambassadors for Christ, to always be prepared to give a gentle and respectful answer to anyone who asks them about the hope they have in them, and to let their light so shine before that they will see their good works and glorify their father in heaven.

This is also in the Bible: "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." (Matthew 7:16-20). It is also written that from out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks (Matthew 12:34; Mark 7:21-23; Luke 6:45) as well as Christians taming their tongue (James 3), with emphasis on verses 9-12, and not speak any unwholesome talk but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen (Ephesians 4:29).

In my opinion, it's perfectly clear that Christians, whether online or in person, have a bad habit of demonstrating what the Bible describes as works of the flesh, as described in Galatians 5:19–21. I see it happen daily here on RF, in this thread, and in many, many other threads on this forum. I'm referring to hatred, contentions, discord, fits of rage, and dissension. They bicker amongst themselves and belittle one another, or they belittle non-Christians, who not only challenge the validity of Christianity but also flatly reject it. These Christians fail to demonstrate what the Bible describes as fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. I think that it is especially true on RF. In fact, I also think it's one of the worst representations of Christianity I've ever seen, both online and in person. If I were still a Christian, I would be dismayed and ashamed of it.

Which spirit? Does not anger originate from love, joy and peace from a lack of or need for, patience from struggle, kindness from benefit, goodness from understanding, faithfulness from knowing, gentleness from care, and self control from discipline? We are all works in process and progress, and I've not acknowledged much (if anything) unable to bear good fruit. This may be important enough to consider.

What's good? Everything is good. It's just that all things are not expedient (beneficial) for me.

What's good, what's right, what's wrong? Luke 9:49-55

 

[Spice]

"...let him be I say:
and Heaven have mercy on us all - Presbyterians and Pagans alike - for we are all somehow dreadfully cracked about the head and sadly need mending."
~ Herman Melville
Moby Dick

 

[Jagella]

I think that this is a valid question. I can't help but wonder now because I was once a member of a forum where atheists were caught pretending to be Christians in an effort to incite conflict and spark heated debates. They were rude, obnoxious, condescending, and pompously judgmental. They would goad, slander, and bully others while deceptively hiding behind a Christian identity.

Acting that way, atheists would indeed be hard to distinguish from Christians. To be fair, though, many atheists just being themselves can be as rude, obnoxious, condescending, and pompously judgmental as any Christian. To me the difference between atheists and Christians is that Christians are rude, obnoxious, condescending, and pompously judgmental in concert with other Christians while atheists tend to go it alone.

However, being rude, obnoxious, and condescending towards others appears to be the norm for most Christians, whether online and in person.

Christian snobbery is very common, that's for sure. I think that one incentive to become or stay Christian is to feel special thinking that one has special knowledge others don't have.

I've known my fair share, which contributed to my decision to leave Christianity.

I was treated badly by Christians in my childhood and into early adulthood. I've noticed that nowadays it's far less common for Christians to treat me that way. We're making progress!

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Sgt. Pepper said:
what the Bible describes as fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

Peace to all,

In logic the Trinity is simple to understand if we can learn to think of three Things, three Miracles, at one time.

Good information Sgt Pepper, to me in logic and through faith, we become again in what the Bible describes as fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

I think logically, before creation was ever created was even created Jesus existed as the Word, the eternal Priestly authority and spirit and life of the infallible laws of the eternal universe.

And in logic, to save the mortal and corrupt flesh and spirits of Created Adam and Eve, The Word became flesh from the Power of the Person of the Holy Spirit conceived in the Person of Jesus to manifest the defiled state of mankind becoming transformed immortal and incorruptible through the intelligence of the fulfilled faith and morality of Christ into becoming again glorified and transfigured in the image of the Creator, God, The Father as one in being, together.

How this all works to me in logic is through the wondrous mysteries of the faith in the Person of The Word, the Third Person in the Trinity, that is present before creation was ever created was even created and The Word is conceived in the Second Person of the Trinity, Christ, for all mankind to become from mortal and corrupt to immortal and incorruptible from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being in the Body and through death and resurrection all mankind will become again glorified and transfigured into the image of the First Person of the Trinity, The Father, as One in Being.

The Trinity is said to be co-eternal and coequal, though the three persons are distinct realities that exist as one. Some say that salvation comes from the Father through the Son and the Holy Spirit, and that praise is returned to God through the Holy Spirit, the Son, and back to the Father. To me in logic and faith this follows the pattern of creation in the image of the Creator God in all mankind being created, becoming transformed and becoming again, glorified and transfigured.

The Father: The first person, the source of divinity, who begets the Son.

The Son: The second person, who receives divinity from the Father. Incarnate Jesus Christ as the Son.

The Holy Spirit: The third person, who receives divinity from the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is God himself, not an impersonal power.
In this sense, there is an “order” in the Trinity. The Father is the first person because he is the fountain of divinity. The Son is the second person because the Deity is communicated to him from the Father. And the Spirit is the third person because the Deity is communicated to him from the Father and the Son.

"For from Him, the Power of the Holy Spirit Person of God and through Him, Jesus, as God, conceived in the Will of the Father as the Word becomes flesh in the Christ for all mankind, and for Him, for the Person of The Father, as God are all things. To Him, the One God, in the Trinity be glory forever. Amen" Romans 11:36

In logic the Trinity is simple to understand if we can learn to think of three Things, three Miracles, created, transformed and transfigured as applied to the logic of the trinity of the Bodies of all mankind with respect to the logic of the Holy Trinity in being.
Three Powers of Beings existing before creation was ever created was even created, equal in power, separate in being creating and mortilizing as curruptible and transforming as sanctified and immortalizing and incorruptibilizing and re-Sanctifing glorifying and transfiguring together as One Powerful God in Being.

To me in logic and through faith, each person, The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit persons in being of the Trinity are equal and separate in power as God and one in being as God.

"Fiat" is Latin for let it be in the power of the on in Deity. The status, quality, or nature of the manifesting power.

Choice in freedom is whether Deity becomes the Divine Will of The Father or Deity becomes the will of man.

Begetting is bringing into existence.

Birthing is bringing into existence from the spirit through the flesh for the soul of the being in the Body. Birthing creates the soul and is a requirement for the soul for the spirit to manifest through the flesh of the being in the Body of the being, and Christ is Divine is His soul existed before creation not requiring normal childbirth so Mary is the Immaculate Conception and Christ is the Virgin Birth because of His Pre-existing Soul conceived from the Person of the Holy Sprit through the flesh of Christ in His preexisting soul as Second Person of the Trinity, The Son.

The logic of Christ's birth as so different is called Virgin Birth and through the Immaculate Conception His flesh and soul are already logically glorified. This means that by no means can the flesh and spirit in the soul of Christ ever die. Nothing can kill Christ’s Body of God, not even crucifixion and the lance of Longinus. And St John the Baptist is the greatest born among men because of the very reason he Baptized Christ, yet John is considered least of all in the Kingdom of Heaven, only because he is perhaps not understanding of all of the wondrous mysteries of the faith in Christ because he left earth before all of Christs teachings. to me, the logic is without Baptism, Christ could not die of the flesh, immortal and incorruptible from birth, now as Baptized can die an descend and destroy death forever and resurrect all mankind, all the angels and saints and Old Covenant saved and martyrs and Dismas, the repentant thief from the cross was with Him from the cross and all from the Bosom of Abrasion to the New Kingdom, Heaven.

To me in logic, the first spirit can come from anywhere and blow to anywhere, but the Holy Spirit Will of Creation in logic and faith is the Will of the Father as what would Jesus do in all cases of the Fulfilled faith and morality of The Christ. The fulfilled faith and morality of The Christ is the mind, the intelligence of creation that comes from and blows back to from where it came, Heaven. The logic is in the intelligence of creation and the power that manifests is from the Power of The Holy Spirit being born again through the flesh of the Baptized being in transformed immortality and incorruptibility in union with the souls of all mankind as Brothers and Sisters of the firstborn of the New Creation, The Christ. And the logic is and through faith of "what the Bible describes as fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control" and in logic and faith is The Fruit of the intelligence of the Holy Spirit Will of Creation shared from the cross. And we are saved as we become again through Penance And Sacrifice in Confirmation re-Sanctified in our own soul through Atonement of sin in Confession and hearing the Words of Absolution forgiven in Penance an Sacrifice of The Host that transforms and transfigures through contact of Jesus in the Will of The Father as The Christ. We become again in union with all mankind as one in being together with the Father and the Son glorified and transfigured as the image of The Creator God for The Father.

To me in logic, first the creator God the Father has to create Love, the greatest gift. So The Creator has to create choice. And choice in the being creates freedom to choose one of two stable states. Choice is Eve wanted the best for Adam even if it means loosing her life for the spirit and life of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. She ate the fruit against his authority and only for the love of Adam. Adam now had to fail his authority and give up his life from and for the love Eve. The states of authority of the choice are from the spirit choice through the soul of the being. The choice is will be the authority of the Will of The Spirit of Creation Being, God, The Father or will it be the authority through the will of the spirit of the Created being.

To me in logic, without flesh the Angels could not save themselves, to become again from immortal and incorruptible through Baptism of the flesh, for they had no flesh. For the powers of teh living waters of Baptism allow from teh spirit through teh felsh fro teh soul of teh Baptized being in the flesh through death and resurrection to become again, glorified and transfigured in all mankind becoming the image of the Greator God for The Father. To me in logic, this is how flesh, mankind will save the angels.

Salvation becomes through Jesus Who fulfills life and spirit and authority becoming eternal life of Authority and Spirit and All Life in Heaven and Earth in the fulfillment of eternal love through His Passion, through The New Eve, The Eternal Body of God, Heaven.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Jagella]

In my opinion, it's perfectly clear that Christians, whether online or in person, have a bad habit of demonstrating what the Bible describes as works of the flesh, as described in Galatians 5:19–21. I see it happen daily here on RF, in this thread, and in many, many other threads on this forum. I'm referring to hatred, contentions, discord, fits of rage, and dissension. They bicker amongst themselves and belittle one another, or they belittle non-Christians, who not only challenge the validity of Christianity but also flatly reject it. These Christians fail to demonstrate what the Bible describes as fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. I think that it is especially true on RF. In fact, I also think it's one of the worst representations of Christianity I've ever seen, both online and in person. If I were still a Christian, I would be dismayed and ashamed of it.

There's nothing new about that kind of hostile behavior on the part of those in the Christian sect. Jesus himself expressed hostility towards those who failed to believe him. Just read Matthew 23 for an example of that hostility.