"Pious Frauds" done "in the name of Jesus"!?

[paarsurrey]

Question:
#224
" Pious Fraud "
Christian are a very good people; but the Paulines took advantage of the simple minded followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, and made them believe "Pious Fraud" of resurrection; how many other Pious Frauds have been made by the Paulines "in the name of Jesus", any idea please.
Answer:
#225 by @Sargonski

Right?

 

[osgart]

Eternal hell for unbelief is a fraud. Or else an extreme delusion. It's bonkers!

 

[1213]

Question:
#224
" Pious Fraud "
Christian are a very good people; but the Paulines took advantage of the simple minded followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, and made them believe "Pious Fraud" of resurrection; how many other Pious Frauds have been made by the Paulines "in the name of Jesus", any idea please.
Answer:
#225 by @Sargonski

Right?

Why should anyone believe it is a fraud?

 

[1213]

Eternal hell for unbelief is a fraud.

And you know that because you have not been in there?

 

[osgart]

And you know that because you have not been in there?

A person can believe all sorts of things, why cast one into hell for it.

 

[Sargonski]

Question:
#224
" Pious Fraud "
Christian are a very good people; but the Paulines took advantage of the simple minded followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, and made them believe "Pious Fraud" of resurrection; how many other Pious Frauds have been made by the Paulines "in the name of Jesus", any idea please.
Answer:
#225 by @Sargonski

Right?

I share much of your Pauline sentiment however .. it was not Paul who added stories of Jesus wandering around in the flesh after death .. despite his writing accounting for near half of the NT.

To the contrary to the Pious Fraud ... Paul confirms the narrative of Mark --- the resurrection stories that he heard and related to us were not of the physical nature .. Jesus wandering around in the flesh asking people to put their finger in the hole .. the ressurection stories Paul described are spiritual in nature .. akin to his own experience .. his "vision" and/ or the voice he hears .. depending on the version of the story .. akin to a mass of people (the 500) seeing the appearance of the virgin Mary in the Cloud.

Now .. it was the later "Paulines' .. which were later Christians .. the Church of Jerusalem - Jewish Christian church dissappearing with the destruction of the Temple - who engaged in some pious fraud .. interpolation .. edits .. addition .. and the dreaded sin of omission.

 

[1213]

A person can believe all sorts of things, why cast one into hell for it.

By what is said in the Bible, unrighteousness is the reason, if one is cast into hell.

 

[paarsurrey]

"Pious Frauds" done "in the name of Jesus"!?

Now .. it was the later "Paulines' .. which were later Christians .. the Church of Jerusalem - Jewish Christian church dissappearing with the destruction of the Temple - who engaged in some pious fraud .. interpolation .. edits .. addition

I have paraphrased the above passage:

Now.. it was the later "Paulines* -which were later called Christians, a misnomer, who were engaged in some pious frauds like .. interpolations .. edits .. additions.

* ( the Church of Jerusalem - Jewish Christian church, disappearing with the destruction of the Temple)

Right?

Regards

 

[osgart]

By what is said in the Bible, unrighteousness is the reason, if one is cast into hell.

And what is the definition of unrighteousness? Part of that is non belief.

Who's standard of righteousness and what does that even mean?

What are examples of righteousness in the Bible? OT genocide, slavery, etc.

 

[Sargonski]

"Pious Frauds" done "in the name of Jesus"!?

I have paraphrased the above passage:

Now.. it was the later "Paulines* -which were later called Christians, a misnomer, who were engaged in some pious frauds like .. interpolation .. edits .. addition.

* ( the Church of Jerusalem - Jewish Christian church, disappearing with the destruction of the Temple)

Right?

Regards

Yes .. not bad Brother Paarsy - you see .. Brother Paul .. was not a "Brother" .. not a member of the Church of Jerusalem .. founded by the discioples and led by Jesus Brother James after the death of Jesus. and thats just according to Cannon .. Luke-Acts .. It is a number of years after the death of Jesus that Paul has his conversion on the road to damascus .. hits his head on the cart .. has a vision of which we have a number of different versions .. starts to go out and covert Gentiles .. when he does have first contact with the disciples they are in opposition to each other. .. bickering about the Law .. and other things .. Paul goes off to convert the Gentiles . has little contact and is not a member of the Church of Jerusalem

In terms of doctrine .. Paul and James are at odds .. James 2 calling some early christians promoting pauline "Faith Alone" doctrine .. must have been some early "Sola Fide" salvation by faith alone .. .. James has none of it and calls these poeple foolish ..

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?

.. this nail in the "Sola Fide" coffin so solid that Idol Martin suggested James be removed from Cannon ..

So then -- what is the upshot here ? --- we have two different Paths - Traditions - beliefs -- that of the Church of Jerusalem - the disciples .. and that of Jesus.

Now .. this would not be a problem if the stories Jived .. but unfortunately they don't .. two completely different and contradictory paths to salvation .. and the classic Faith vs Works debate which divides the Church to this day .. Catholic Orthodox having a works component to salvation .. Protestantism "Faith Alone" gets you in .. aka "Free Pass Ideology" - Just believe and you have a free pass through judgement .. not even told what it is you are to believe in coherent manner .. is it belief that Jesus was God .. or belief that the word of Jesus was from God .. as there is a really huge distinction .. "Faith in What" ??

anyhow .. following Jesus is not so simple .... as one can not really be a follower of Paul and a follower of Jesus at the same time .. from a doctrinal perspective.

 

[1213]

What are examples of righteousness in the Bible?

There are many examples. Here is few:

A righteous man hates lies, But a wicked man brings shame and disgrace.
Prov. 13:5
The mouth of the righteous talks of wisdom. His tongue speaks justice. The law of his God is in his heart. None of his steps shall slide.
Ps. 37:30-31
…He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is right-eous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
This is the history of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time. Noah walked with God.
Gen. 6:9

 

[paarsurrey]

"Pious Frauds" done "in the name of Jesus"!?

What are examples of righteousness in the Bible? OT genocide, slavery, etc.

There are many examples. Here is few:

A righteous man hates lies, But a wicked man brings shame and disgrace.
Prov. 13:5

Yet Saul/Paul lied (a Pious lie by Saul) that he has seen the risen (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah while he had gone on a travel to take refuge* from Galilee to save persecution by the then Romans and the Zionists (/Jews) towards the lands in the East where the diaspora Israelites lived, right, please?
Saul aka Paul (et al) had invented and founded PaulineChristianity that has got nothing to do with the deeds and teachings of the Israelite Messiah, please, right?
(*innocent Mother Mary joined later.)

23:51
And We made the son of Mary and his mother a Sign, and gave them refuge on an elevated land of green valleys and springs of running water. Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search
Right?

Regards
________________
23:51
وَجَعَلۡنَا ابۡنَ مَرۡیَمَ وَاُمَّہٗۤ اٰیَۃً وَّاٰوَیۡنٰہُمَاۤ اِلٰی رَبۡوَۃٍ ذَاتِ قَرَارٍ وَّمَعِیۡنٍ ﴿٪۵۱

 

[1213]

Yet Saul/Paul lied (a Pious lie by Saul) that he has seen the risen (Jesus)Yeshua-

Sorry, I don't see any good reason to think Paul lied.

 

[Sumadji]

... he had gone on a travel to take refuge* from Galilee to save persecution by the then Romans and the Zionists (/Jews) towards the lands in the East where the diaspora Israelites lived, right, please?

Wrong, please

Where do you get this?

Paul was a persecutor of the new Christians. He held the coats of those who stoned Stephen.

According to Christian scripture Paul's reason for going to Damascus was with the intention of arresting Jesus' followers and bringing them back to Jerusalem for questioning and possible execution. The High Priest had given Paul this mandate.

"As for Saul, he made havoc of the church, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, committing them to prison ...

Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem"
Acts 8-9

 

[paarsurrey]

"Pious Frauds" done "in the name of Jesus"!?

I wrote post #9 in another thread/forum titled "park worship revival " very much relevant here:

What is "park worship", does one mean "Garden of Gethsemane", please, where Yeshua fervently prayed to "G-d/the father", right??
One needs not to worship and or pray to Jesus-god, instead feel free to worship and pray to One G-d whom Yeshua used to remember as "G-d/the father", right, please?

Jesus is consubstantial with the father, right?

Did (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ever knew this word "consubstantial "and spoke it from his mouth, ever, or it is yet another deception/trick of the Paulines and or a " Pious Fraud " of the Church done much later in the name of (Jesus). please, right?
If he (Jesus) ever spoke this word from his mouth then kindly quote from him in first person in a straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous manner, please, right?

Regards
___________
" consubstantial (adj.)
"having the same substance or essence," late 14c., a term in the theology of the Trinity, from Church Latin consubstantialis "of like essence, nature, or substance," from assimilated form of com "with, together" (see con-) + substantia "being, essence, material" (see substance). In general use from 1570s. Related: Consubstantially; consubstantiality; consubstantialism.
also from late 14c."
consubstantial | Etymology of consubstantial by etymonline
"having the same substance or essence," late 14c., a term in the theology of the Trinity,… See origin and meaning of consubstantial.
www.etymonline.com

 

[paarsurrey]

"Pious Frauds" done "in the name of Jesus"!?

I wrote post #9 in another thread/forum titled "park worship revival " very much relevant here:

What is "park worship", does one mean "Garden of Gethsemane", please, where Yeshua fervently prayed to "G-d/the father", right??
One needs not to worship and or pray to Jesus-god, instead feel free to worship and pray to One G-d whom Yeshua used to remember as "G-d/the father", right, please?

Jesus is consubstantial with the father, right?

Did (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ever knew this word "consubstantial "and spoke it from his mouth, ever, or it is yet another deception/trick of the Paulines and or a " Pious Fraud " of the Church done much later in the name of (Jesus). please, right?
If he (Jesus) ever spoke this word from his mouth then kindly quote from him in first person in a straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous manner, please, right?
Anybody, please

Regards
___________
" consubstantial (adj.)
"having the same substance or essence," late 14c., a term in the theology of the Trinity, from Church Latin consubstantialis "of like essence, nature, or substance," from assimilated form of com "with, together" (see con-) + substantia "being, essence, material" (see substance). In general use from 1570s. Related: Consubstantially; consubstantiality; consubstantialism.
also from late 14c."
consubstantial | Etymology of consubstantial by etymonline
"having the same substance or essence," late 14c., a term in the theology of the Trinity,… See origin and meaning of consubstantial.
www.etymonline.com

 

[Regiomontanus]

Question:
#224
" Pious Fraud "
Christian are a very good people; but the Paulines took advantage of the simple minded followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, and made them believe "Pious Fraud" of resurrection; how many other Pious Frauds have been made by the Paulines "in the name of Jesus", any idea please.
Answer:
#225 by @Sargonski

Right?

Heh, no, not right.

Cheers

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Question:
#224
" Pious Fraud "
Christian are a very good people; but the Paulines took advantage of the simple minded followers of (Jesus) Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, and made them believe "Pious Fraud" of resurrection; how many other Pious Frauds have been made by the Paulines "in the name of Jesus", any idea please.
Answer:
#225 by @Sargonski

Right?

The idea of the resurrect did not originate with Paul. It came from the Pharisees. The Pharisees (unlike the Sadducees) accepted the Prophets. And the Prophets taught the resurrection.

• Isaiah 26:19: "Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!"
• Ezekiel 37:12-14: In the vision of the valley of dry bones, God tells Ezekiel, "I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people."
• Daniel 12:2: "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

When we use the word fraud, it implies deliberate deceit. No one is deliberately lying here. They simply believe different things.

 

[paarsurrey]

God is not a man

A man cannot be a god, was Moses a god, no never no, please??

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

God is not a man

A man cannot be a god, was Moses a god, no never no, please??

Regards

God told Moses that he would be like a god unto Pharaoh. That certainly is NOT the same thing as saying Moses is a god. It's the difference between a metaphor, and literal speech.