Plain Agnostics - Do you believe in God or not?

[The Sum of Awe]

Belief doesn't require "fact" or "knowing". This question doesn't ask if you know God exists or not, just if you believe he does or not.

This is why I don't understand Agnosticism too well. "I don't know" works if someone asks "Does God exist" to you, but "Do you believe God exists" is a whole different question, they're not asking if you know he does or not.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Belief isn't the basis of agnosticism. You are asking each individual agnostic to define themselves as either an agnostic theist or agnostic atheist.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Belief isn't the basis of agnosticism. You are asking each individual agnostic to define themselves as either an agnostic theist or agnostic atheist.

Well, I'm asking out of curiosity. How does plain agnosticism exist to the question "Do you believe God exists?"

 

[pururun]

i personally based my belief on my knowledge of god existence.

 

[Skwim]

Well, I'm asking out of curiosity. How does plain agnosticism exist to the question "Do you believe God exists?"

I don't believe god exists, and I don't believe he doesn't exist. He may and he may not. Think of it this way. You're inside a windowless building for six hours. The weather forecast for the day was "occasional showers." Now, without any evidence either way can you say you believe that at present it is raining?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know if God exist or not, and based on that I really don't have a believe on if god exist or not, and since it's likely I'll never have any actual knowledge I really don't care to build a believe on it.

 

[ReligionNomore665]

If someone came up to me and asked me "Does God exist?" I will not hesistate to answer with "I don't know." and go on about my day. But as for the question, Do I believe God exists? I would say, no he may not. There was one point in my life when I did believe, but I was only a child and I was going by what my parents had told me. I was much too young to make my own decisions in life. Once I grew older, I began to wonder if this "God" they told me about was even real? I still wonder to this day if he does, but as far as I'm concerned he doesn't. Though the day I have some real proof layed out in front of me, then I'll say other wise.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Well, I'm asking out of curiosity. How does plain agnosticism exist to the question "Do you believe God exists?"

Without looking; do you know if there is a very small piece of blue tape stuck to the outside of the door to the room you are seated in?

OK. Now. Put aside whether you know or not.

Do you believe that there is a very small piece of blue tape stuck to the ouside of the door to the room you are seated in?

Same answer......

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Without looking; do you know if there is a very small piece of blue tape stuck to the outside of the door to the room you are seated in?

OK. Now. Put aside whether you know or not.

Do you believe that there is a very small piece of blue tape stuck to the ouside of the door to the room you are seated in?

Same answer......

Different answer actually: no.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Different answer actually: no.

Hmmmm..
You have no proof that a very small piece of blue tape is NOT stuck to your door. Yet you say "no".......hmmm...
you must be an atheist.

 

[cablescavenger]

Belief doesn't require "fact" or "knowing". This question doesn't ask if you know God exists or not, just if you believe he does or not.

This is why I don't understand Agnosticism too well. "I don't know" works if someone asks "Does God exist" to you, but "Do you believe God exists" is a whole different question, they're not asking if you know he does or not.

I struggle with agnosticism being a valid term for anything.

What is agnostic? Someone who does not know whether God or Gods exists or not? That makes the entire planet agnostic. People may claim to know, but as it is not falsifiable, they are mistaken and are indeed agnostic.

In other words there are only two positions
a) A Theist - Believes in God(s)
b) Atheist - Lacks belief in God or God(s) does not mean a flat out rejection, just lack of belief, or faith if you prefer.

If you then say:
1) Yes I believe in God or Gods - You are theist
2) I do not believe in God or God(s) - You are atheist
3) I don't know - You are atheist

Why would I don't know be an atheist response?
Because a believer would believe, and someone who lacks belief would fall under the term atheist.

Agnosticism is not a halfway house to anything, it is not even in the same argument. It is a get out clause for nothingness.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Hmmmm..
You have no proof that a very small piece of blue tape is NOT stuck to your door. Yet you say "no".......hmmm...
you must be an atheist.

But I don't need proof to say what I lack belief in, because it is only belief. Isn't that kind of like asking for evidence when you only create a hypothesis?

 

[Songbird]

Belief doesn't require "fact" or "knowing". This question doesn't ask if you know God exists or not, just if you believe he does or not.

I don't know. But I think we spend an awful lot of time deliberating on it, and I think it's time better spent focusing on life here and now.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't know. But I think we spend an awful lot of time deliberating on it, and I think it's time better spent focusing on life here and now.

Time better spent focusing on posting on RF, here and now.

 

[Songbird]

Time better spent focusing on posting on RF, here and now.

Exactly.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

But I don't need proof to say what I lack belief in, because it is only belief. Isn't that kind of like asking for evidence when you only create a hypothesis?

Your syntax is odd....:areyoucra

I don't need proof to say what I lack belief in.
BUT..... I do need proof to say what I believe in. :yes:

A hypothesis is created in order to direct study in order to find evidence.
In the simple anaolgy I gave you, one could simply go look at the door to confirm or deny the existance of the blue tape, but it is a lot trickier with an omniscient, omnipotent supreme being.

The hypotheses that are all of the Abrahamic religions have already been disproven: but that still leaves a universe of possibility for a divine being.

To date the score is --
Atheists = 90,000,000,000 and counting
Deists = Zero

However, the game is still on, and if the Deists get just one point, they win.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Your syntax is odd....:areyoucra

I don't need proof to say what I lack belief in.
BUT..... I do need proof to say what I believe in. :yes:

A hypothesis is created in order to direct study in order to find evidence.
In the simple anaolgy I gave you, one could simply go look at the door to confirm or deny the existance of the blue tape, but it is a lot trickier with an omniscient, omnipotent supreme being.

The hypotheses that are all of the Abrahamic religions have already been disproven: but that still leaves a universe of possibility for a divine being.

To date the score is --
Atheists = 90,000,000,000 and counting
Deists = Zero

However, the game is still on, and if the Deists get just one point, they win.

May I ask what 90,000,000,000 and counting evidence atheists have for evidence? Just keep in mind, evolution and science is NOT atheism, it's science. Atheism is simply "god doesn't exist"

 

[Reptillian]

Perhaps an analogy is in order: Suppose I'm asked whether unicorns do or don't exist. If I'm some guy in Europe in the 1500's then unicorns seem reasonable because there is so much of the world that remains unexplored. They're a possible life form given what I would know about the world. What I'm saying is that I don't think we have enough information to prove or disprove the existence of a god. I think all wisdom begins with the phrase "I don't know". Its when you think you already have the answers to a question, that you stop looking for the truth.

I agree with The Sum of Awe that the question, "do you believe this to be the case" is different from the question "is this the case". Personally, I'm a fan of the idea of some sort of god, but I have a devotion to the truth. If there is a god, then even it must obey truth. For certainly there are truths about god and it's nature. Its a big universe out there, I've only been alive for a very short time, and I'm unwilling to say with any certainty that there is or isn't anything out there which might be considered a god given what I know. But I want to know!

 

[laffy_taffy]

Without looking; do you know if there is a very small piece of blue tape stuck to the outside of the door to the room you are seated in?

OK. Now. Put aside whether you know or not.

Do you believe that there is a very small piece of blue tape stuck to the outside of the door to the room you are seated in?

Same answer......

Why would I hold the belief that a small piece of blue tape is stuck to the door? If I have found no evidence which convinces me to believe this is true, then why would I believe it? I would lack belief that the tape is stuck to the door until convinced otherwise. That does not mean that I would have to therefore, hold the opposite belief, that blue tape is not in fact stuck to the door. How should I know? Not having a belief in something does not mean that you have to therefore believe that the opposite is true.

 

[bigbadgirl]

Define God first so you will get a better response. I like the Thomas Edison quote. It hits the nail on the head.