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Plain Agnostics - Do you believe in God or not?

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Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
disciple said:
No, they are not. You cannot be, for instance, an "agnostic atheist" as I've noticed some people labeling themselves...this is a contradiction in definition.


Did you even understand the post where I stated that an atheist denies the existence of a deity(ies)? That is neither the position of the theist or the agnostic.

You are arguing a point that you don't even understand, like I said, instead of cluttering up this DIR why don't you go ask for someone to explain this to you in the atheist DIR.
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You are wrong as to what an Atheist is... It seems you are saying an Atheist believes there is no deity... Which isn't true. You are defining someone that would be considered a gnostic atheist.

An agnostic atheist would say I do not believe in any deity. Not I believer there is no deity. Do you see the difference?

Perhaps you should post in the Atheist DIR if you want this explained to you... you know rather then cluttering up this one.
 
Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
disciple said:
(facepalm).

This is unbelivable.

The agnostic is stating that they don't have a belief either way.
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If you do not have a belief either way then you would be in the default position... Someone that would have a belief in a deity would be a theist. Someone who believes there is no deity is a gnostic Atheist. Someone who does not know but is not convinced there is one is an agnostic atheist.

DUCY NOW?
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Fraleyight said:
You are wrong as to what an Atheist is... It seems you are saying an Atheist believes there is no deity... Which isn't true. You are defining someone that would be considered a gnostic atheist.

An agnostic atheist would say I do not believe in any deity. Not I believer there is no deity. Do you see the difference?

Perhaps you should post in the Atheist DIR if you want this explained to you... you know rather then cluttering up this one.
Click to expand...

Some atheists do not seem to be able to understand what "agnostic' means. This isn't my problem.

Perhaps I can explain this another way...

Do you believe that I'm wearing socks right now?
 
Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
disciple said:
Some atheists do not seem to be able to understand what "agnostic' means. This isn't my problem.

Perhaps I can explain this another way...

Do you believe that I'm wearing socks right now?
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I do not know but the default position would be no until proven otherwise... And by the way I do understand what an agnostic is because I am an agnostic atheist.... I think you are the one who doesn't understand.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Fraleyight said:
I do not know but the default position would be no until proven...
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Wrong. There is no "default position" to the question of whether (getting back to the subject) a deity(ies) exist.

You do realize that going by your logic there is no such thing as a "theist", right? Because the "default position" would be the same for them?
 
Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
disciple said:
Wrong. There is no "default position" to the question of whether (getting back to the subject) a deity(ies) exist.

You do realize that going by your logic there is no such thing as a "theist", right? Because the "default position" would be the same for them?
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Do you understand what I mean by default position? A theist believes in a deity. I'm sure you will agree such a thing has not been proven. The burden of proof is on the deists. Anyone who rejects their claims would be considered an Atheist by default.

Edit: perhaps this wasn't the best way to explain this. Let me put it this way. Anyone making a claim of any sort is required to prove that claim. The rejection of such claim is the default position.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The Sum of Awe said:
Yes that's what Gnostic means, and Agnostic is the (A= Lack of) knowledge
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"I don't know" is a valid answer to the question, though, this seems to be what you are having trouble with.

The atheist position/answer as to whether they belive there is a deity(ies) is No. It is a statement to the negative.
 
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godmachine

New Member
Fraleyight said:
Do you understand what I mean by default position? A theist believes in a deity. I'm sure you will agree such a thing has not been proven. The burden of proof is on the deists. Anyone who rejects their claims would be considered an Atheist by default.

Edit: perhaps this wasn't the best way to explain this. Let me put it this way. Anyone making a claim of any sort is required to prove that claim. The rejection of such claim is the default position.
Click to expand...

Are you saying I have to "prove" that I am an agnostic if that is the label I choose to wear? How do I do that with someone who does not believe in agnostics?
 
Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
disciple said:
"I don't know" is a valid answer to the question, though, this seems to be what you are having trouble with.

The atheist position/answer as to whether they belive there is a deity(ies) is No. It is a statement to the negative.
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You are confusing we do not believe in a deity with we believe there is no deity.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Fraleyight said:
Do you understand what I mean by default position? A theist believes in a deity. I'm sure you will agree such a thing has not been proven. The burden of proof is on the deists. Anyone who rejects their claims would be considered an Atheist by default.
Click to expand...

Anyways like I stated earlier, there is no "default position" :rolleyes:

the 'burden of proof' argument is a whole different can of worms that doesn't have anything to do with what we're discussing.
 
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godmachine

New Member
The problem with believing/disbelieving in gods/deities is that there are too many definitions.

I do not believe in a god.

I do not disbelieve in a god.

These are both true statements.
 
Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
godmachine said:
Are you saying I have to "prove" that I am an agnostic if that is the label I choose to wear? How do I do that with someone who does not believe in agnostics?
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No that is not at all what I am saying. I am saying anyone making a claim needs to prove it. Until the claim is proven the default position is the rejection of that claim.
 
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