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Plain Agnostics - Do you believe in God or not?

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Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
godmachine said:
The problem with believing/disbelieving in gods/deities is that there are too many definitions.

I do not believe in a god.

I do not disbelieve in a god.

These are both true statements.
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Both those statements to an extent would apply to most Atheists. The only thing is there are some gods I believe do not exist... Such as Zeus for example, but there is no god I believe exists that makes me an Atheist.
 
Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
disciple said:
Anyways like I stated earlier, there is no "default position" :rolleyes:

the 'burden of proof' argument is a whole different can of worms that doesn't have anything to do with what we're discussing.
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I only brought up the burden of proof argument to show you why there is a default position. That being said it is important you understand where the burden or proof lies for you to understand why there is a default position.
 
Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
disciple said:
Explain? Standard definition of atheist is that they believe there is no deity(ies).

try Wikipedia.
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For one using wikipedia as a source is kind of silly considering anyone can go in there and edit it.


here is the dictionary.com definition.

a·the·ist

   [ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
noun a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
 
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godmachine

New Member
Fraleyight said:
Both those statements to an extent would apply to most Atheists. The only thing is there are some gods I believe do not exist... Such as Zeus for example, but there is no god I believe exists that makes me an Atheist.
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OK then. That is what makes you an atheist and me an agnostic. My worldview allows for the possibility that god(s) exist (depending on the definition).
 
Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
godmachine said:
OK then. That is what makes you an atheist and me an agnostic. My worldview allows for the possibility that god(s) exist (depending on the definition).
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So does mine. I could define a god as a slice of pizza and you would have a hard time rejecting the slice of pizza exists.

The universe and everything in it already has a definition. God in most cases is used to describe the creator of everything inside the universe. Do you believe such a God exists? If your answer is anything but yes you my friend are an Atheist.
 
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godmachine

New Member
Fraleyight said:
So does mine? I could define a god as a slice of pizza and you would have a hard time rejecting the slice of pizza as a god.

The universe and everything in it already has a definition. God in most cases is used to describe the creator of everything inside the universe. Do you believe such a God exists. If you answer is anything but yes you my friend are an Atheist.
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I believe there is a source for everything that exists in the universe. You could call that source a "god" if you wish. But that does not make me a theist.
 
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godmachine

New Member
Fraleyight said:
If you do not accept a claim made by someone you are rejecting it. That does not mean your mind cannot change later. Again it is the default position.
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Again I disagree. Not accepting is not the same as rejecting. Your idea of a "default position" is something I reject.
 
Falvlun

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
disciple said:
(facepalm).

This is unbelivable.

The agnostic is stating that they don't have a belief either way.
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Perhaps to clear up some confusion and frustration.

There are two different definitions for agnostic: the "popular" one and the technical one.

You are operating under the popular definition of agnostic, which is to describe someone who neither believes nor disbelieves the existence of god.

(Which I believe is actually a pretty rare thing, since it requires a perfect balance: you believe there is equal reason for believing in god and equal reason for not believing in god. For most people, in my experience, the scales are tipped one way or the other, and they just call themselves agnostic because atheist has a bad connotation and they think that means they have to claim to know for sure that god doesn't exist.)

The technical, historical definition, that most of us here on RF use, describes someone who doesn't claim to know whether god exists or not.

This definition has nothing to do with belief; it has to do with knowledge. I can (and do) believe that god does not exist, but I do not know this for sure, hence I am an agnostic atheist.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Falvlun said:
Perhaps to clear up some confusion and frustration.

There are two different definitions for agnostic: the "popular" one and the technical one.

You are operating under the popular definition of agnostic, which is to describe someone who neither believes nor disbelieves the existence of god.

(Which I believe is actually a pretty rare thing, since it requires a perfect balance: you believe there is equal reason for believing in god and equal reason for not believing in god. For most people, in my experience, the scales are tipped one way or the other, and they just call themselves agnostic because atheist has a bad connotation and they think that means they have to claim to know for sure that god doesn't exist.)

The technical, historical definition, that most of us here on RF use, describes someone who doesn't claim to know whether god exists or not. I was changing up the wording for the sake of the argument. That of course is also my definition.

This definition has nothing to do with belief; it has to do with knowledge. I can (and do) believe that god does not exist, but I do not know this for sure, hence I am an agnostic atheist.That would make you an agnostic IMO, however if you want to make it more precise using that wording then o.k.
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.......
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I'd like to point out that an atheist literally denies the existence of a deity(ies), it's not something they're iffy about. Just so were all on the same page.
 
Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
disciple said:
I'd like to point out that an atheist literally denies the existence of a deity(ies), it's not something they're iffy about. Just so were all on the same page.
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That is not always true. An Atheist is simply someone who does not believe in any gods. Nothing more or nothing less.


BTW thank you for the definition above sir/maam and the copy to the other thread I think that will clear up some confusion itt.
 
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Fraleyight

Fraleyight

Member
godmachine said:
Again I disagree. Not accepting is not the same as rejecting. Your idea of a "default position" is something I reject.
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Ok fine we will agree to disagree and for the sake of this argument I will re word my definition like this. I do not accept the existence of any deity therefore I am an atheist anyone who also does not accept the existence of any deity is also an atheist.
 
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godmachine

New Member
Fraleyight said:
Ok fine we will agree to disagree and for the sake of this argument I will re word my definition like this. I do not accept the existence of any deity therefore I am an atheist anyone who also does not accept the existence of any deity is also an atheist.
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I can accept that definition of an atheist. But it does not apply to agnostics.
 
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