Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
Where do Earthlings go from here? If we overpopulate Earth and have to find new lodgings, where do you think we would live?
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Plan B
- Thread starter Lightkeeper
- Start date
We've already overpopulated the Earth, Lightkeeper. We're consuming resources faster than they can be replaced -- the very definition of non-sustainability. Arable land is decreasing. Aquifers are drying up. Deserts are extending. Arctic and mountain ice is melting. The ozone shield is holed. Rain forests are shrinking. Endangered species are becoming extinct species. The ocean itself is becoming polluted -- not to mention devoid of food fish. Half the world eeks out a bleak existance on the equivalent of a dollar or two per day.
Earth is the only place we've got. Terraforming another planet is a sci-fi fantasy. We can't even control terrestrial ecology. Where are we going to get a whole planet's worth of water, air, topsoil &c?
Earth is the only place we've got. Terraforming another planet is a sci-fi fantasy. We can't even control terrestrial ecology. Where are we going to get a whole planet's worth of water, air, topsoil &c?
jewscout
Religious Zionist
nothing is sci-fi fantasy if you don't want it to be.Seyorni said:
It was said man would never fly...
The sound barrier would never be broken...
Rockets to the moon?
There will only be a desire for 3 personal computers in the whole world?
cloning?
Hell watch an episode of the old star trek series...stuff that was "sci-fi"
their personal communicators? Look an awful lot like cell phones...from about 5 years ago
What is that thing that Capt. Kirk is signing? holy crap it's a frigin PDA or one of those dumb signature things that UPS, FedEx and every other shipping company uses now.
We can create lasers now right?
Hell scientists have even created anti-matter...you know the stuff that runs the warp engines? Colliding matter and anti-matter together.
Nothing is impossible if we can imagine it.
Try to tell someone in 1804 that in a hundred years that their would be "horse-less carriages"
No*s
Captain Obvious
Jewscout,
Aren't there plenty of examples in sci-fi of things that simply can't work? Imagining something is no guarantee that it will ever happen, or that it ever could happen.
Terraforming Mars is one of those things, and it may one day happen. I won't say it can't happen. What I will say is that we can't do it now. It would take a global effort, but we don't have that. It would require stability for centuries. If, in two hundred years, there's a major political upheaval, then the effort is stopped. There are technology barriers others could explain better than I.
Wouldn't it be better if we tried to deal with the situation at hand and wait to try that when we have the ability? Humanity could very really be facing the most ugly and nasty period in our history, and I'd hate to not try to deal with the situation at hand and shoot for a very remote, near-impossible, goal.
Aren't there plenty of examples in sci-fi of things that simply can't work? Imagining something is no guarantee that it will ever happen, or that it ever could happen.
Terraforming Mars is one of those things, and it may one day happen. I won't say it can't happen. What I will say is that we can't do it now. It would take a global effort, but we don't have that. It would require stability for centuries. If, in two hundred years, there's a major political upheaval, then the effort is stopped. There are technology barriers others could explain better than I.
Wouldn't it be better if we tried to deal with the situation at hand and wait to try that when we have the ability? Humanity could very really be facing the most ugly and nasty period in our history, and I'd hate to not try to deal with the situation at hand and shoot for a very remote, near-impossible, goal.
jewscout
Religious Zionist
No*s
I'm not saying that we should not work on our own planet, we should. I'm just saying it could be possible if the cooperation and revenue were there, that we could terraform Mars. I'm not saying we should just throw this world away i'm just opening up the possibility.
Personally i would like to see it happen, not for purposes of overpopulation or polution but for simply space exploration.
I'm not saying that we should not work on our own planet, we should. I'm just saying it could be possible if the cooperation and revenue were there, that we could terraform Mars. I'm not saying we should just throw this world away i'm just opening up the possibility.
Personally i would like to see it happen, not for purposes of overpopulation or polution but for simply space exploration.
Terraforming mars would require us to move the planet into a closer orbit, transporting the pacific ocean, half our atmosphere, soil, &c there, melting the core to create a magnetic field to shield it from the solar wind (that blew away Mars' water and atmosphere in the first place), and a thousand other technological problems. It would be a billion times easier to fix a planet that has all the basic necessities already in place -- and we don't seem to be able to manage that.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
Most people consistently make the same three errors!
1) They overestimate man's impact on this planet! Mt St Helens produced more POLUTION than man has since the beginning of the industrial revolution!
2) They underestimate the earth's resources, renewable and otherwise. We have YET to tap into the wealth that is disolved in sea water.
3) They underestimate man's resourcefullness and ingenuity. We WILL figure out a way to keep on keeping on.
Most people consistently make the same three errors!
1) They overestimate man's impact on this planet! Mt St Helens produced more POLUTION than man has since the beginning of the industrial revolution!
2) They underestimate the earth's resources, renewable and otherwise. We have YET to tap into the wealth that is disolved in sea water.
3) They underestimate man's resourcefullness and ingenuity. We WILL figure out a way to keep on keeping on.
cardero
Citizen Mod
Interesting thread as always Lightkeeper but I should bring to your awareness that this plan has already been considered except that it is entitled "Alternative III" True? I do not K(NOW). Interesting? Yeah.
http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa050399.htm
http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa050399.htm
NetDoc:
1 -- Mt St Helens did throw a lot of dust into the atmosphere, but it was not persistant. Earth is used to this type of pollution and deals with it. Mt St Helen's effects today are essentially nil. The Sahara is still expanding. The oglala aquifer is still drying up. DDT still appears in mother's milk.
2 -- So you think there are huge, undiscovered deposits of oil, aluminum, molybdenum, fish, timber, coal &al somewhere?
Wealth dissolved in sea water? The cost of extracting an ounce of metal or "X" chemical from sea water is astronomical. The plants ecological horrors; to say nothing of the ecological effect of changing the temperature, flow and chemical composition of the sea.
3 -- Do what you wan't, we'll figure out how to fix it later!? What hubris!
I hope you don't own credit cards....
1 -- Mt St Helens did throw a lot of dust into the atmosphere, but it was not persistant. Earth is used to this type of pollution and deals with it. Mt St Helen's effects today are essentially nil. The Sahara is still expanding. The oglala aquifer is still drying up. DDT still appears in mother's milk.
2 -- So you think there are huge, undiscovered deposits of oil, aluminum, molybdenum, fish, timber, coal &al somewhere?
Wealth dissolved in sea water? The cost of extracting an ounce of metal or "X" chemical from sea water is astronomical. The plants ecological horrors; to say nothing of the ecological effect of changing the temperature, flow and chemical composition of the sea.
3 -- Do what you wan't, we'll figure out how to fix it later!? What hubris!
I hope you don't own credit cards....
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
My first post got zapped in cyberspace... so when I re-typed it, I forgot to put in the caveat, that we don't need to try and screw things up just to show that we can!
I applaud conservation, especially when it comes to oceans, and I even try to do my part to make things better.
But in reality, the sky is NOT falling, and those people running around screaming that it is usually have no clue on how to resolve the issues nor do they have the real inclination to do anything drastic about it. They just love pointing fingers at everyone else, and telling them that they shouldn't have credit cards!
I applaud conservation, especially when it comes to oceans, and I even try to do my part to make things better.
But in reality, the sky is NOT falling, and those people running around screaming that it is usually have no clue on how to resolve the issues nor do they have the real inclination to do anything drastic about it. They just love pointing fingers at everyone else, and telling them that they shouldn't have credit cards!
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
BTW, you say Mt St Helens was "not persistent"... well that was only ONE geo-thrmo event. How many do we have every year?
As for getting elements out of sea water... that is what advancing technology is for. What was once implausible is now common place. If we need to do this, then we will. The quicker we work to arrive at a solution the better!
As for getting elements out of sea water... that is what advancing technology is for. What was once implausible is now common place. If we need to do this, then we will. The quicker we work to arrive at a solution the better!
Runt
Well-Known Member
Actually, I heard recently the scientists believe that they CAN terraform Mars. Essentially, they would pollute the crap out of it to release greenhouse gases, and within 100 years it is supposed to be livable. However, we'd still need to wear oxygen tanks to breathe, but we'd be able to walk on the surface in t'shirt and stuff.
However, there is an estimate that if we continue polluting space at the rate we are, we will not be able to get any shuttle or anything out of orbit because there will be so much junk out there that we cannot get a window long enough to escape.
I actually am supposed to be leaving now, but I'll try to find some articles on this later today.
However, there is an estimate that if we continue polluting space at the rate we are, we will not be able to get any shuttle or anything out of orbit because there will be so much junk out there that we cannot get a window long enough to escape.
I actually am supposed to be leaving now, but I'll try to find some articles on this later today.
No*s
Captain Obvious
NetDoc,
If we aren't having the impact you say we are, then by all means, go into the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, and bring us back a fish from it. It's over 2,000 square miles, uninhabitable for fish, and we created it.
That seems to be a pretty drastic change in the enviroment, and if it goes unimpeded, there will be no fish left in the Gulf at all. That seems to be a pretty drastic change to me.
If we aren't having the impact you say we are, then by all means, go into the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, and bring us back a fish from it. It's over 2,000 square miles, uninhabitable for fish, and we created it.
That seems to be a pretty drastic change in the enviroment, and if it goes unimpeded, there will be no fish left in the Gulf at all. That seems to be a pretty drastic change to me.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Dead Zone?
Is this like the Devil's Triangle?
Can I have some coordinates for this mythical place?
We actually thought that man was responsible for the red tide... but we have found samples of it in the ice in the antartic that is millions of years old.
Is this like the Devil's Triangle?
Can I have some coordinates for this mythical place?
We actually thought that man was responsible for the red tide... but we have found samples of it in the ice in the antartic that is millions of years old.
No*s
Captain Obvious
What is happening, is that the nitrogen-based from farmlands is washing down into the Gulf. When it does, it flows a good bit out to sea. Out there, it collects, and causes algae to grow in abundance. When this algae dies, it sinks to the bottom, whereupon bacteria feed upon it and take all the oxygen. This resulting lack of oxygen, in turn, has made it uninhabitable to fish.
This situation, sadly, is not mythical.
Here is some articles on it, which include information so that you can know where it is:
http://www.tulane.edu/~bfleury/envirobio/enviroweb/DeadZone.htm
http://www.nos.noaa.gov/products/pubs_hypox.html
http://www.sierraclub.org/cleanwater/waterquality/deadzone.asp
This situation, sadly, is not mythical.
Here is some articles on it, which include information so that you can know where it is:
http://www.tulane.edu/~bfleury/envirobio/enviroweb/DeadZone.htm
http://www.nos.noaa.gov/products/pubs_hypox.html
http://www.sierraclub.org/cleanwater/waterquality/deadzone.asp