Plant intelligence

[Jain]

Jainism is the first (known) religion to recognize that there is consciousness, a soul in plants. Scientists today are proving or at least providing more and more evidence that this is true.

Stefano Mancuso: The roots of plant intelligence | Video on TED.com

Plant neurobiology - The science of plants

I'll be posting more links in the future too here in this thread, providing evidence that all life has some consciousness, some degree of intelligence and emotion.

 

[Jain]

How trees communicate:

How Trees Communicate (Video) - Waking Times : Waking Times

 

[Jain]

Plant DNA:

What’s the difference between plant DNA and animal DNA? | Earth | EarthSky

 

[mycorrhiza]

Could we move this to science & religion, so that I can discuss and since it has more to do with biology than Jainism itself?

Currently watching the TED video, and it sure is interesting!

 

[Jain]

Could we move this to science & religion, so that I can discuss and since it has more to do with biology than Jainism itself?

Currently watching the TED video, and it sure is interesting!

That's okay by me. A moderator needs to move this. I don't think I can do it.

 

[mycorrhiza]

That's okay by me. A moderator needs to move this. I don't think I can do it.

Great! I guess I can discuss then in wait for a moderator to move it.

While plants certainly show signs of "intelligence" and often possess a highly complex system of communication and perception (well, at least higher plants do), I wouldn't say that they are conscious in the common sense of the word. The material provided was definitely interesting and seems to be more scientific and less about plants reading minds (like earlier studies on plant intelligence). The videos even seemed to be aimed at me, seeing as they discussed mycorrhiza (what I got my username from) and the very plant I have standing next to me: mimosa pudica, haha .

If souls do exist, I'm almost certain that plants have them. We need to take a step back from our anthropocentrism and see that the world is more than just us Humans.

Measuring intelligence is done from a human standpoint, and if we took a step to the side and saw it from a plant perspective, then yes, plants are indeed intelligent, but not actively conscious. There is nothing supernatural about human feelings, it's just chemicals and electric signals, which doesn't make it that much different from plants since they use the very same things to "feel" and communicate.


I do hope that further research is done on the subject, and if I do decide to become a botanist, I will make sure that it is done!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

*** Staff Advisory ****

The thread has been moved to Science & Religion. All members are now welcome to post.​

 

[Skwim]

How trees communicate:

How Trees Communicate (Video) - Waking Times : Waking Times

Just finished watching your linked video, and found it was pretty much what I expected: an anthropomorphic analogy taken to the extreme. Simple symbiosis, which is what was demonstrated, is not evidence of consciousness or intelligence. However, perhaps my misunderstanding is simply one involving definition. So to be clear, just what do you mean by these terms? How are you defining:

Consciousness?

Soul?

Intelligence?
​

 

[painted wolf]

Jainism is the first (known) religion to recognize that there is consciousness, a soul in plants. Scientists today are proving or at least providing more and more evidence that this is true.

Stefano Mancuso: The roots of plant intelligence | Video on TED.com

Plant neurobiology - The science of plants

I'll be posting more links in the future too here in this thread, providing evidence that all life has some consciousness, some degree of intelligence and emotion.

Not it isn't... animism has held that as a truism for thousands of years before Jainism arrived. Meaning that there are hundreds if not thousands of religions that believed it before Jainism started.

But I'm glad that Jainism joined us animists in this.

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

Plants certainly get shorted by us and they are woefully underestimated and misunderstood by most people.

In reality they are amazingly complex life forms with mysteries we are only just realizing that we need to start to explore.

wa:do

 

[Jain]

So to be clear, just what do you mean by these terms? How are you defining:

Consciousness?

Soul?

Intelligence?
​

Consciousness, the state of having some level of awareness and/or feelings, sensations (which plants do have some degree of this, not as much as a human or animal, but some degree).

Soul, the spark of life, the thing that separates an inanimate object from a living being or form of life.

Intelligence, some degree of making a decision, such as the way humans and animals do and also the movements of plants (a lesser degree, but still there)

 

[Jain]

Not it isn't... animism has held that as a truism for thousands of years before Jainism arrived. Meaning that there are hundreds if not thousands of religions that believed it before Jainism started.

But I'm glad that Jainism joined us animists in this.

wa:do

I see animism as more of a "category" of beliefs rather than a specific religion. Animism includes indigenous beliefs which may or may not be true, but don't have a known, specific founder or set of scriptures.

Jainism has a specific set of scriptures and a known, founder, Mahavira in the 6th century BCE and before that Parshva who lived in the 10th century BCE and there is archeological and historical evidence for the existence of both. Parshva lived 900 BCE - 800 BCE or 877 BCE - 777 BCE.

 

[Skwim]

Consciousness, the state of having some level of awareness and/or feelings, sensations (which plants do have some degree of this, not as much as a human or animal, but some degree).

Which to my way of thinking requres a central processing station such as a brain. Are you suggesting that plants have such an organ?

Soul, the spark of life, the thing that separates an inanimate object from a living being or form of life.

"Spark of life" tells me nothing. It's as enigmatic as "soul."

Intelligence some degree of making a decision, such as the way humans and animals do and also the movements of plants (a lesser degree, but still there)

Like consciousness, this too would require some kind of "brain," and I don't see any evidence of one in any plant.

 

[Jain]

Intelligence and the brain don't have to be in the physical organ of a brain; there can be neurological connections and synapses in other areas of the body, case in point the many people who have lost part or most of their brain but still function pretty normally. Scientists are still studying this and finding that intelligence is not all in the brain.

Mike the headless chicken performed without a brain:
Mike the Headless Chicken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Skwim]

Intelligence and the brain don't have to be in the physical organ of a brain;

Errr, I'm sure that the brain is in the brain. And if intelligence isn't there what organ do you think it's in?

there can be neurological connections and synapses in other areas of the body, case in point the many people who have lost part or most of their brain but still function pretty normally. Scientists are still studying this and finding that intelligence is not all in the brain.

Yes, there are neurological connections and synapses in other areas of the body, but they are merely transmitters of information to the brain, and not processors of the information, which is what is necessary for intelligence, and consciousness to form.

Mike the headless chicken performed without a brain:
Mike the Headless Chicken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting, but are you claiming that sitting on a perch, walking. and making gurgling sounds, amounts to intelligence and consciousness? If so, you have a far different definition of "intelligence" and "consciousness" than others. Under contemporary definitions, just because an organism moves about doesn't mean it's intelligent. Slime molds move by cytoplasmic streaming, but I doubt anyone would call it an exhibition of intelligence. And while I'm asleep (a non-conscious state) I breath, twist and turn in bed, and even dream crazy stuff, which shows that even complex actions need not be conscious ones.

 

[painted wolf]

I see animism as more of a "category" of beliefs rather than a specific religion. Animism includes indigenous beliefs which may or may not be true, but don't have a known, specific founder or set of scriptures.

Jainism has a specific set of scriptures and a known, founder, Mahavira in the 6th century BCE and before that Parshva who lived in the 10th century BCE and there is archeological and historical evidence for the existence of both. Parshva lived 900 BCE - 800 BCE or 877 BCE - 777 BCE.

My religion seems to doing fine without any scriptures or a specific founder.

Predating writing doesn't seem to have done us any harm. We have archeological evidence going back 10,000 + years.

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

Skwim.... expecting a plant to have a brain is a category error.

Not to mention it's a fallacy to expect that all living things have to be like animals. Just because we use a centralized brain to process information doesn't mean it's the only way for it to be biologically possible.

wa:do

 

[Skwim]

Skwim.... expecting a plant to have a brain is a category error.

Absolutely, but it's an error that is being claimed to have substance.

Not to mention it's a fallacy to expect that all living things have to be like animals. Just because we use a centralized brain to process information doesn't mean it's the only way for it to be biologically possible.

Yup; however, intelligence and consciousness are processing activities far above those that process signals to turn a body toward Sun light.

​

 

[Jain]

It's a matter of degree of intelligence. Of course a plant is not as intelligent as a dog, but there can still be an iota however small degree of intelligence, even if just a molecule compared to that of a dog.

 

[painted wolf]

Absolutely, but it's a error that is being claimed to have substance.

I'm not sure the substance isn't bias.

Yup; however, intelligence and consciousness are processing activities far above those that process signals to turn a body toward Sun light.

​

That isn't the only "behvior" that plants engage in... and it's not any less sophisticated than some animals.

wa:do