Please Explain: "Gay Christian"

[Sonofason]

1. You should not be calling people whom you don't agree with, snakes.

YOU are on a debate site - so YOU can debate, after all.


2. Nachash has a very interesting history.


The word also means a Serpent Sorcerer, and to "hiss" incantations.


And again, it has the same meaning from India, to Babylon, to the Hebrew.


Jesus is associated with the Serpent, the Fiery Serpent, the lifting up in the desert, etc., and the word translated "carpenter," comes from a word meaning to craft, - in a magical sense.


And of course he is accused of being a Sorcerer.



*

Then it appears that you agree that the word snake can be applied to more than just elongated, legless, carnivorous reptiles of the suborder Serpentes that can be distinguished from legless lizards by their lack of eyelids and external ears.

Maybe it wasn't a literal snake speaking in the garden after all.

 

[Sonofason]

1. You should not be calling people whom you don't agree with, snakes.

YOU are on a debate site - so YOU can debate, after all.


2. Nachash has a very interesting history.


The word also means a Serpent Sorcerer, and to "hiss" incantations.


And again, it has the same meaning from India, to Babylon, to the Hebrew.


Jesus is associated with the Serpent, the Fiery Serpent, the lifting up in the desert, etc., and the word translated "carpenter," comes from a word meaning to craft, - in a magical sense.


And of course he is accused of being a Sorcerer.



*

Provide evidence.
After all, you really don't expect me to take your word for anything, do you?

 

[Ingledsva]

Then it appears that you agree that the word snake can be applied to more than just elongated, legless, carnivorous reptiles of the suborder Serpentes that can be distinguished from legless lizards by their lack of eyelids and external ears.

Maybe it wasn't a literal snake speaking in the garden after all.

Which is why I used the word Enchanter.


The text looks like it is using a play on words.


Nachash/Enchanter becomes Nachash/Serpent/Snake.



*

 

[Ingledsva]

1. You should not be calling people whom you don't agree with, snakes.

YOU are on a debate site - so YOU can debate, after all.


2. Nachash has a very interesting history.


The word also means a Serpent Sorcerer, and to "hiss" incantations.


And again, it has the same meaning from India, to Babylon, to the Hebrew.


Jesus is associated with the Serpent, the Fiery Serpent, the lifting up in the desert, etc., and the word translated "carpenter," comes from a word meaning to craft, - in a magical sense.


And of course he is accused of being a Sorcerer.

Provide evidence.
After all, you really don't expect me to take your word for anything, do you?

LOL! Dude! I could go much deeper into this, - into the fringe areas, however, the information above is standard, and every Christian should know it.


You can find that Nachash means Serpent Sorcerer, And hiss an incantation, by looking the word up in your Strong's.


Jesus is associated with the Serpent in - Numbers 21:8-9, John 3:14-15.


Num 21:8 And YHVH said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Num 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

*

The word translated "carpenter" - Jesus is called a Sorcerer, and the word Tekton which is used for Joseph and Jesus is also connected to Sorcery (and serpent,) as it originally meant to work "or craft" sorcery.


On the range of tekton covering “crafters” see P.H. Furfey, “Christ as Tekton,” CBQ 17 (1955,) 324-35.

Albright and Mann, Matthew, 172-73, connect tekton with the Aramaic word Naggara. Mary in the New Testament: A Collaborative Assessment.

Also for naggara see Jesus the Jew, p 21-22, Collins.


from the Proceedings of the Society Biblical Archaeology.

It shows the words for a metal crafter and their relation to Nagar, Serpent, and Magic.

Internet Archive: Details: Proceedings i_djvu.txt

“It may here be noticed that the verb connected with nachash, a snake, is often employed in the sense of working as a wizard or diviner (see for example Gen. xliv, 5 and 15). In Numbers xxiv, i, the Anglican version has, "he (Balaam) went not .... to seek incantations." This word j" incantations "is a translation of nechashim, which literally means " snakes. ..."

“In regard to the origin of this word, I venture to suggest that it originally meant smith, and is identical with the modern Persian word ahangar, a smith. … The Persian ahangar appears in this instance to be reproduced in the shortened form nagar.”

“And as the various crafts became more distinct from each other, this word nagar was in the languages just mentioned employed to denote "carpenter."…”

*

He is called an Egyptian Sorcerer in the Talmud.

Interesting -


What causes problems/knowledge in the garden? A Serpent.

What do both Pharaoh’s Sorcerers and the Sorcerer Moses use? Their Staffs turn to Serpents.

How does the Bible refer to a Sorcerer’s incantations? A Serpent’s hiss.

What does Moses lift in the dessert? A Serpent Staff.

This Serpent is associated with the Messiah. Numbers 21:8-9, John 3:14

Jesus is also called Aramaic NAGGARA, translate carpenter (from Greek tekton,) but actually Serpent of the Sun, or Fiery Serpent, just as when lifted up in the dessert.

A Hebrew tribe is referred to as the Serpent - Dan.

The Hebrew ancestral Temple Shiloh is located by the Sacred Serpent Stone Zoheleth.

Shiloh was the home of the Sacred Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant was kept there until captured.

*

But there is a lot of Sorcery and magic hidden in the Bible.


There is magic wand making - just like some Pagans. Jacob uses them for fertility magic.

Gen 30:37 – And Jacob took him rods (divining rods) of green (3892) poplar (3839), and of the Hazel and chestnut tree; and pilled (peeled 6478) white strakes (peelings 6479) in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.

38 – And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.

*

Joseph the Sorcerer with his Divining Bowl -

Gen44:5 Surely this with which you drink (is my) Sovereigns; the same with which he Enchants? Evil thou has made!

Gen44:15 Said Joseph; Why this action which thou took? Did you not know I? (nachash) Hiss Incantations? An Sorcerer/Enchanter of renown I am known as!

And much - much - more.

We have Hebrew spell bowls in museums.


*

 

[Ingledsva]

And foreskins, lots and lots of foreskins. They were a bartering commodity around David's time.

Right, exactly the sort of response I expected. I'll just leave you to your imagination and desires.

Dude! Do you not read your Bible?


He is correct.


For David and Michal to marry. Saul proposed that David bring him 100 foreskins of the Philistines as payment for his daughter. David brought him 200 Philistine foreskins, and Saul had to allow him to wed Michal (1Samuel 18:20-27).


*

 

[ScuzManiac]

If you were following the conversation you would realize we were trying to determine the scriptural intent at that time ( the time it was written).

So in Bronze Age Israel, with a lack of hygiene products, a plethora of superstitions and sexual taboos, who do you think sodomy mostly pertained too ?

Most importantly the Law we are referring to states men sodomizing men. So I don’t why you would try to play coy and state modern quantity and ignore ratio. As to imply sodomy would pertain to 10 average heterosexual men rather then 10 average homosexuals ones.

You are more then welcome to attempt “critical thinking” again.

You are more than welcome to attempt to form a complete sentence again.

"So I don’t why you would try to play coy and state modern quantity and ignore ratio."

Just because what I said went over your head, doesn't mean it isn't relevant.

Try reading it again, bud.

 

[McNap]

They had a God and Goddess, and believed their coming together was the beginning of creation.


The Qadesh in the Temple played the God or Goddess role allowing the people to be the other in a simulation of the Act of Creation.


They did this as an act of Worship, which for the Hebrew, made it Idolatry, and a death offense.

The Bible tells us that the Hebrew kept turning back to their old Gods, and setting them, and this Sacred Sex, up in the Temples.


In fact there is a verse in the Bible where the Hebrew say they were far better off when they followed their Goddess.


What little I could find on resulting children from this Sacred Sex, - said that they were either raised to be Qadesh, or were happily adopted by the people, as they were considered to be the Children of God.



*

(We do have the dutch word sodomy. I forgot.)

Okay thank you for this reply. Now I understand why you mentioned idolatry.

As regards Romans 1:27 it seems like they commit sodomy as a punishment, and receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error.
First of all I wonder if this would be a punishment if they were gay.
But second it clearly seems like God is using the heretics only to punish them among themselves. When I read this it doesn't look like any non-heretics are involved in this penalty.
Taking into account the fact that a heretic always has faith in God.

 

[Sonofason]

LOL! Dude! I could go much deeper into this, - into the fringe areas, however, the information above is standard, and every Christian should know it.


You can find that Nachash means Serpent Sorcerer, And hiss an incantation, by looking the word up in your Strong's.


Jesus is associated with the Serpent in - Numbers 21:8-9, John 3:14-15.


Num 21:8 And YHVH said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Num 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

*

The word translated "carpenter" - Jesus is called a Sorcerer, and the word Tekton which is used for Joseph and Jesus is also connected to Sorcery (and serpent,) as it originally meant to work "or craft" sorcery.


On the range of tekton covering “crafters” see P.H. Furfey, “Christ as Tekton,” CBQ 17 (1955,) 324-35.

Albright and Mann, Matthew, 172-73, connect tekton with the Aramaic word Naggara. Mary in the New Testament: A Collaborative Assessment.

Also for naggara see Jesus the Jew, p 21-22, Collins.


from the Proceedings of the Society Biblical Archaeology.

It shows the words for a metal crafter and their relation to Nagar, Serpent, and Magic.

Internet Archive: Details: Proceedings i_djvu.txt

“It may here be noticed that the verb connected with nachash, a snake, is often employed in the sense of working as a wizard or diviner (see for example Gen. xliv, 5 and 15). In Numbers xxiv, i, the Anglican version has, "he (Balaam) went not .... to seek incantations." This word j" incantations "is a translation of nechashim, which literally means " snakes. ..."

“In regard to the origin of this word, I venture to suggest that it originally meant smith, and is identical with the modern Persian word ahangar, a smith. … The Persian ahangar appears in this instance to be reproduced in the shortened form nagar.”

“And as the various crafts became more distinct from each other, this word nagar was in the languages just mentioned employed to denote "carpenter."…”

*

He is called an Egyptian Sorcerer in the Talmud.

Interesting -


What causes problems/knowledge in the garden? A Serpent.

What do both Pharaoh’s Sorcerers and the Sorcerer Moses use? Their Staffs turn to Serpents.

How does the Bible refer to a Sorcerer’s incantations? A Serpent’s hiss.

What does Moses lift in the dessert? A Serpent Staff.

This Serpent is associated with the Messiah. Numbers 21:8-9, John 3:14

Jesus is also called Aramaic NAGGARA, translate carpenter (from Greek tekton,) but actually Serpent of the Sun, or Fiery Serpent, just as when lifted up in the dessert.

A Hebrew tribe is referred to as the Serpent - Dan.

The Hebrew ancestral Temple Shiloh is located by the Sacred Serpent Stone Zoheleth.

Shiloh was the home of the Sacred Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant was kept there until captured.

*

But there is a lot of Sorcery and magic hidden in the Bible.


There is magic wand making - just like some Pagans. Jacob uses them for fertility magic.

Gen 30:37 – And Jacob took him rods (divining rods) of green (3892) poplar (3839), and of the Hazel and chestnut tree; and pilled (peeled 6478) white strakes (peelings 6479) in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.

38 – And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.

*

Joseph the Sorcerer with his Divining Bowl -

Gen44:5 Surely this with which you drink (is my) Sovereigns; the same with which he Enchants? Evil thou has made!

Gen44:15 Said Joseph; Why this action which thou took? Did you not know I? (nachash) Hiss Incantations? An Sorcerer/Enchanter of renown I am known as!

And much - much - more.

We have Hebrew spell bowls in museums.


*

Speaking of Lucifer - believe it or not:
"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
(Ezekiel 28:12-14)

"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
(2 Corinthians 11:3)

"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
(Revelation 12:9)

"He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;"
(Revelation 12:2)

Seems to me, the Angel Lucifer fell from God's grace and became el satan, (Satan) the adversary of God, that he is The Devil, as well that "serpent of old" who deceived Eve in the garden.

You can believe anything you like. If that serpent of old was a snake crawling on it's belly in the garden, I assure you he was much more than a little snake.

 

[Sonofason]

Dude! Do you not read your Bible?


He is correct.


For David and Michal to marry. Saul proposed that David bring him 100 foreskins of the Philistines as payment for his daughter. David brought him 200 Philistine foreskins, and Saul had to allow him to wed Michal (1Samuel 18:20-27).


*

You can twist the Bible any way you want. It won't do you any good. I cannot be convinced to believe lies. I am far too wise for that.

Honestly, I don't see how those who twist and pervert the truth sleep at night.

 

[ScuzManiac]

You can twist the Bible any way you want. It won't do you any good. I cannot be convinced to believe lies. I am far too wise for that.

Honestly, I don't see how those who twist and pervert the truth sleep at night.

So, in all reality, your statement means that at least SOME of The Bible is a lie?

Or at least parts of Samuel.

:yes:

 

[ScuzManiac]

I said, "No statement found in the Bible has never been proven to be false."

And I will say again, "If you think one has been successfully refuted, you are quite mistaken."

1. The Bible never makes a claim that a snake talked. I assume you are referring to chapter 3 of Genesis which says,

"וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙ הָיָ֣ה עָר֔וּם מִכֹּל֙ חַיַּ֣ת הַשָּׂדֶ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשָׂ֖ה יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהִ֑ים וַיֹּ֙אמֶר֙ אֶל־הָ֣אִשָּׁ֔ה אַ֚ף כִּֽי־אָמַ֣ר אֱלֹהִ֔ים לֹ֣א תֹֽאכְל֔וּ מִכֹּ֖ל עֵ֥ץ הַגָּֽן׃"

Now I'm not a genius or anything like that, but I don't see the word snake anywhere in this sentence.

In fact the word is translated into English as serpent. While a snake can be a serpent. It is not true that all serpents are snakes. Only a snake would make such a claim.

2. The Bible was written before today's modern definitions. The Bible does not contain a statement ever calling a bat a modern day bird. It doesn't even call a bat a bird at all. I assume you are referring to Leviticus 11 verse 13 and verse 19 which say,

verse 13
וְאֶת־אֵ֙לֶּה֙ תְּשַׁקְּצ֣וּ מִן־הָעֹ֔וף לֹ֥א יֵאָכְל֖וּ שֶׁ֣קֶץ הֵ֑ם אֶת־הַנֶּ֙שֶׁר֙ וְאֶת־הַפֶּ֔רֶס וְאֵ֖ת הָעָזְנִיָּֽה׃

verse 19
וְאֵת֙ הַחֲסִידָ֔ה הָאֲנָפָ֖ה לְמִינָ֑הּ וְאֶת־הַדּוּכִיפַ֖ת וְאֶת־הָעֲטַלֵּֽף׃

Now, from verse 13 we have the word הָע֔וֹף which when transliterated into English reads "hā-‘ō-wp̄," "which comes from a root word which means to cover or to fly." The category of 'owph includes birds, bats, and certain insects."
Does the Bible call a bat a bird?

I'm not sure you know this, but bats can fly. Bats may not be birds as birds are defined today, but bats are certainly הָע֔וֹף.

The writer of Leviticus did not approve of the use of the English word bird as a substitution for what he actually wrote. Nor would He.

I'm not going to prove you wrong on every count. Hopefully you are wise enough to see where this is going. If not, too bad.

Okay. Serpents don't talk.

Prove me wrong.

Or tell me how it isn't supposed to be taken literally...

 

[ScuzManiac]

Then it appears that you agree that the word snake can be applied to more than just elongated, legless, carnivorous reptiles of the suborder Serpentes that can be distinguished from legless lizards by their lack of eyelids and external ears.

Maybe it wasn't a literal snake speaking in the garden after all.

Wait...

You told me a page or two ago that there was no mention of a snake in The Bible.

Now, you're saying MAYBE it wasn't a literal snake?

If you're going to make an argument...

Don't flip flop so much. There isn't, maybe there isn't....

What a joke.

 

[sojourner]

Honestly, I don't see how those who twist and pervert the truth sleep at night.

Please! Enlighten us!

 

[Ingledsva]

Dude! Do you not read your Bible?


He is correct.


For David and Michal to marry. Saul proposed that David bring him 100 foreskins of the Philistines as payment for his daughter. David brought him 200 Philistine foreskins, and Saul had to allow him to wed Michal (1Samuel 18:20-27).

You can twist the Bible any way you want. It won't do you any good. I cannot be convinced to believe lies. I am far too wise for that.

Honestly, I don't see how those who twist and pervert the truth sleep at night.

How exactly are either of us twisting the Bible?


He made a reference to foreskins as a commodity at the time of David, - a reference to the above verse..


He is correct, and the verse is an example of that.


Saul asked for 100 foreskins of his dead enemies, in payment for his daughter Michal.



*

 

[Ingledsva]

Speaking of Lucifer - believe it or not:
"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
(Ezekiel 28:12-14)

"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
(2 Corinthians 11:3)

"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
(Revelation 12:9)

"He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;"
(Revelation 12:2)

Seems to me, the Angel Lucifer fell from God's grace and became el satan, (Satan) the adversary of God, that he is The Devil, as well that "serpent of old" who deceived Eve in the garden.

You can believe anything you like. If that serpent of old was a snake crawling on it's belly in the garden, I assure you he was much more than a little snake.

Obviously, I was not talking about "Satan."


There are actually no evil autonomous Satan verses in Tanakh.


Satan is a servant of YHVH. His job is to test, to put stumbling blocks in people's paths, and if they are found wanting, to stand beside the throne, and accuse them before YHVH.

Even in the "Job" story, it is YHVH that sends him to test Job.


Later Christians which misunderstood, or mistranslated the Hebrew texts, and were mixing with other religions, turned him into an autonomous evil being.


Ezekiel 28:12-14, is about a human, not Satan.


These "flowery" verses are mistranslated as being about Satan. THEY ARE NOT!


If you go back a few books in Ezekiel, you will find this is an actual war, and YHVH says he will destroy the seaside city of Tyre.


Eze 24:2 Son of man, write thee the name of the day, even of this same day: the king of Babylon set himself against Jerusalem this same day.

Eze 25:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will stretch out mine hand upon the Philistines, and I will cut off the Cherethims, and destroy the remnant of the sea coast.

Eze 26:2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste:

Eze 26:3 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up.

Eze 26:4 And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

Eze 26:7 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Eze 26:16 Then all the princes of the sea shall come down from their thrones, and lay away their robes, and put off their broidered garments: they shall clothe themselves with trembling; they shall sit upon the ground, and shall tremble at every moment, and be astonished at thee.

Eze 26:17 And they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and say to thee, How art thou destroyed, that wast inhabited of seafaring men, the renowned city, which wast strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants, which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it!

Eze 27:3 And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty.

Eze 27:32 And in their wailing they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and lament over thee, saying, What city is like Tyrus, like the destroyed in the midst of the sea?

Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a El, I sit in the seat of the Elohiym, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not El,though thou set thine heart as the heart of the Elohiym:


These were mistranslated. They actually use "el," "Elohiym," etc., and we KNOW that these terms are used for the mighty: Kings, Princes, Judges, Priests, etc. El also means Mighty, Powerful, etc.

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 In Eden the garden of the Elohiym you were/came to be; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou were a cherub anointed; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Real places - Mountain of God, etc, the stones were worn by Kings, Priest, Judges, etc.

In other words flowery language, - meaning HE/they, Prince and city, thought they were beautiful, Great, and Mighty, Elohiym/Princes, etc. whom because of their assumed stature, took a great fall.


Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.


Other cities are destroyed before these verses - and more cities are destroyed after these verses. They are not in any sense talking about Satan.



*

 

[Sonofason]

So, in all reality, your statement means that at least SOME of The Bible is a lie?

Or at least parts of Samuel.

:yes:

No, I believe that every single word of the Bible, as written by it's authors, is the absolute truth.

I believe that Saul hated David. I believe He thought he was going to be giving David an impossible task. There is no way Saul wanted to let David marry his daughter. But David proved Saul to be the idiot. The fact that Saul required a payment of however many foreskins for his daughters hand in marriage just shows that Saul was a depraved man, with depraved intentions. It wasn't about money, and it wasn't about the payment. It was about Saul's disregard for God.

 

[Ingledsva]

No, I believe that every single word of the Bible, as written by it's authors, is the absolute truth.

I believe that Saul hated David. I believe He thought he was going to be giving David an impossible task. There is no way Saul wanted to let David marry his daughter. But David proved Saul to be the idiot. The fact that Saul required a payment of however many foreskins for his daughters hand in marriage just shows that Saul was a depraved man, with depraved intentions. It wasn't about money, and it wasn't about the payment. It was about Saul's disregard for God.

Actually cutting off body parts as proof of a kill was a standard practice for many thousands of years. Often there was money per part.


In the Saul-David story he definitely gives the foreskins monetary value, as they are the price for his daughter.

Hoping they would kill David first has nothing to do with the FACT that the foreskins were being used as commerce.


Edit - Forgot to add that Rabbinical sites add that the reason Saul asked for foreskins, was because this particular enemy of his, were not circumcised (in an area where most were,) - thus the foreskins were proof that his actual enemy was killed.



*

 

[Sonofason]

Actually cutting off body parts as proof of a kill was a standard practice for many thousands of years. Often there was money per part.


In the Saul-David story he definitely gives the foreskins monetary value, as they are the price for his daughter.

Hoping they would kill David first has nothing to do with the FACT that the foreskins were being used as commerce.


Edit - Forgot to add that Rabbinical sites add that the reason Saul asked for foreskins, was because this particular enemy of his, were not circumcised (in an area where most were,) - thus the foreskins were proof that his actual enemy was killed.



*

Again, you see it the way you see it.
I see it differently.
When you deny the truth, you cannot know the truth. One of us is completely in the dark. And it isn't me.

 

[sojourner]

Again, you see it the way you see it.
I see it differently.
When you deny the truth, you cannot know the truth. One of us is completely in the dark. And it isn't me.

But if you're in the dark, how would you know?

 

[El Blimpo]

A dude that steals a look a some other dude's crotch during church? That might be too gay though. Maybe it's a dude who notices that Mrs. Stevenson didn't accessorize correctly. Maybe it's the pedo in row 5? Who knows.