Please explain "transsexual Christian"

[AgnosticBoy]

I"ve read a lot in one week about how someone can be both gay and a Christian. I'd like to know if someone can be both transgender and a Christian.

 

[Revoltingest]

St Frank, where are you?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, transsexualism is a medical condition. Our brain sex doesn't match up with the rest of our body (the two develop at different times in the womb). It's a sex differentiation disorder. We're not really mentioned in the Bible at all and we've always been a small population throughout history.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

St Frank, where are you?

Lol!

 

[columbus]

I"ve read a lot in one week about how someone can be both gay and a Christian. I'd like to know if someone can be both transgender and a Christian.

It's easy. You are trans and consider yourself Christian.

What you don't seem to realize is that Christianity doesn't mean anything in particular. Christianity is whatever somebody who considers themselves Christian believes. That is why sosofason, st Frank, and hay85, just to name a few, can all be Christians. Heck, even I am a Christian when the mood hits.

Tom

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Well, transsexualism is a medical condition. Our brain sex doesn't match up with the rest of our body (the two develop at different times in the womb). It's a sex differentiation disorder. We're not really mentioned in the Bible at all and we've always been a small population throughout history.

So what is your conclusion? Are you agnostic about transgender and Christianity being compatible or are the two incompatible? If they are compatible then please justify using any supportable Christian-based teaching.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So what is your conclusion? Are you agnostic about transgender and Christianity being compatible or are the two incompatible? If they are compatible then please justify using any supportable Christian-based teaching.

Transsexualism is not a religious issue in Christianity. We're not mentioned in the Bible. I'm a Christian and I have transsexualism. People try to make it a religious issue when they don't understand what it actually is. It's like asking how you can be intersex and Christian.

Transgender is a more nebulous term and is often used as an umbrella term for unrelated things. Some of us don't like to be called that, as the terms aren't really interchangeable and we were originally called transsexuals (transsexualism and transsexual are medical terms and were so in the beginning, transgender and transgenderism came later). It's currently popular among activists and we're not all happy about that.

 

[Thana]

I"ve read a lot in one week about how someone can be both gay and a Christian. I'd like to know if someone can be both transgender and a Christian.

I don't see where the conflict is?
Transexuality isn't really mentioned as far as I'm aware, And aslong as it isn't about lust or isn't put before God, It's not a problem imo.

I don't think there's a universal answer to that question though, Some will agree some won't.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There isn't much else to add. The Bible doesn't mention transgender people. But it can be safely assumed Jesus wouldn't have turned us down, but rather come up with a parable of how we are all god's children and the Pharisees who questioned his choice of associates be damned.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This belongs here: Transgender Christians

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Transsexualism is not a religious issue in Christianity. We're not mentioned in the Bible. I'm a Christian and I have transsexualism. People try to make it a religious issue when they don't understand what it actually is. It's like asking how you can be intersex and Christian.

Transgender is a more nebulous term and is often used as an umbrella term for unrelated things. Some of us don't like to be called that, as the terms aren't really interchangeable and we were originally called transsexuals (transsexualism and transsexual are medical terms and were so in the beginning, transgender and transgenderism came later). It's currently popular among activists and we're not all happy about that.

I see two areas where it is relevant to the Bible - one has to do with design and the other with men and women roles (including prohibiting cross-dressing).

On another thread, you said God creates people. So if being transsexual is just as natural as eye color or its innate, then why did God create that way. As you mentioned it is a 'disorder' which I see as evidence against a Christian God assuming that he's still creating as you say. So the transsexual's response is to take it upon themselves to change their sex, when in actuality they'll always fall short. A person born as a male will not be able to ovulate, to fertilize sex cells and conceive a baby, they're still with the same chromosomes, NO MATTER HOW MUCH hormones and surgery they put themselves through. I'd also would want to see some study on how transsexuals fare in long term relationships or marriages, even.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I see two areas where it is relevant to the Bible - one has to do with design and the other with men and women roles (including prohibiting cross-dressing).

We're not cross dressers so that has nothing to do with us. That's also a part of the Old Testament and was a tribal law specific to that culture, not a Divine one. Going by that, all women who wear pants are sinning. What is considered appropriate dress for men and women varies by culture. Scottish men could be said to be wearing "skirts" and some people make fun of Christian liturgical vestments by saying they're "dresses". So that verse is safely dismissed as archaic.

On another thread, you said God creates people. So if being transsexual is just as natural as eye color or its innate, then why did God created that way. As you mentioned it is a 'disorder' which I see as evidence against a Christian God assuming that he's still creating as you say.

In Christian theology, all defects, disorders, diseases, etc. are a result of the Fall and the corruption it brought. They're a result of having imperfect flesh that is subject to problems.

So the transsexual's response is to take it upon their own judgement to change their sex, when in actuality they'll always fall short because a person born as a male will not be able to ovulate, to fertilize sperm and conceive a baby, they're still with the same chromosomes, NO MATTER HOW MUCH hormones and surgery you do to yourself.

We're well-aware that we're not able to change our chromosomes and we don't need people reminding us because it triggers our dysphoria. With science as it currently is, I will not have the penis, testicles, prostate gland, etc. of an XY person. That's painful to me and I have to live with it. But I can bring my body into alignment with who I am as much as possible. I have largely accepted the fact that I am an infertile male who will never have biological children, unless science advances in that area in my lifetime (it's possible).

I'd also would want to see some study on how transsexuals fare in long term relationships or marriages, even.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the subject. We date, have relationships, get married like everyone else and we also have children through various ways. Yes, our being trans tends to be a complication in those areas but we manage, like everyone else does.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I don't see where the conflict is?
Transexuality isn't really mentioned as far as I'm aware, And aslong as it isn't about lust or isn't put before God, It's not a problem imo.

I don't think there's a universal answer to that question though, Some will agree some won't.

I actually see it as an argument AGAINST the bible if it is innate just like hermaphrodites. I'm sure we will see some here trying to rationalize by trying to fit 21st century knowledge into a primitive book. One exception is if God can work a miracle in this case.

Transsexualism would've been more obviously against nature than homosexual acts were. I remember reading one passage about being effeminate and cross dressing but I'm on a cellphone and no access to a bible right now.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I actually see it as an argument AGAINST the bible if it is innate just like hermaphrodites. I'm sure we will see some here trying to rationalize by trying to fit 21st century knowledge into a primitive book.

Human hermaphrodites don't exist. You probably mean intersex people and intersex conditions are disorders, as well. You're actually being somewhat offensive. This is like saying that because a person gets sick that it means that God doesn't exist.

Transsexualism would've been more obviously against nature than homosexual acts were.

Obviously we're not "against nature" since we naturally exist.

I remember reading one passage about being effeminate and cross dressing but I'm on a cellphone and no access to a bible right now.

That has nothing to do with transsexual women, who are women.

 

[Thana]

I actually see it as an argument AGAINST the bible if it is innate just like hermaphrodites. I'm sure we will see some here trying to rationalize by trying to fit 21st century knowledge into a primitive book. One exception is if God can work a miracle in this case.

Transsexualism would've been more obviously against nature than homosexual acts were. I remember reading one passage about being effeminate and cross dressing but I'm on a cellphone and no access to a bible right now.

Well, That's your perspective then.

Transsexualism isn't against nature, Homosexuality isn't against nature. These are arguments not from the bible but from people.

 

[Matemkar]

Actually homosexuality is against nature because it ceases procreation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I actually see it as an argument AGAINST the bible if it is innate just like hermaphrodites. I'm sure we will see some here trying to rationalize by trying to fit 21st century knowledge into a primitive book. One exception is if God can work a miracle in this case.

Transsexualism would've been more obviously against nature than homosexual acts were. I remember reading one passage about being effeminate and cross dressing but I'm on a cellphone and no access to a bible right now.

Actually many different species normally change their sex. For some it's a response their immediate environment, so it's a stage in their life development, and some species even do it as a response to stress. In humans, it strongly seems to be rooted in chromosomes that trigger a fetus to develop into one sex while the brain in exposed to a higher level of hormones of the sex opposite of the chromosomes, which causes the brain to develop more like that of the sex opposite of the chromosomes.
There is also no need to reconcile 21st century science with an ancient holy text. Transsexualism is a debilitating condition that degrades one's quality of life. The Bible says our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit; should we not take care of this temple and improve, as best we can, its functions? There is also the main focus of Christianity, Jesus' life and teachings, and he only had a problem with hypocrites and money lenders defiling the temple.
The Bible is also contains a number of ancient cures for various ailments. How is treating one condition ok, while treating another wrong? Ergo, because transsexualism is a disorder, and because the Bible approves treating disorders, treating transsexualism is compliant with Biblical law.

A person born as a male will not be able to ovulate, to fertilize sex cells and conceive a baby, they're still with the same chromosomes, NO MATTER HOW MUCH hormones and surgery they put themselves through.

Many women, who are born women, cannot ovulate and have children. Does this make them any less of a woman? Sometimes they are even born with XY chromosomes. Does this disqualify her as a woman, even though it's how the world views her?

I see two areas where it is relevant to the Bible - one has to do with design and the other with men and women roles (including prohibiting cross-dressing).

Like many Biblical passages rooted in Jewish law and tradition, these particular passages cannot be correctly interpreted without first learning of the cultural context in which they are from. Cross dressing is actually quite common during Purim, meaning there is no flat-out ban on men wearing that which partains unto a woman and vice versa.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Actually many different species normally change their sex. For some it's a response their immediate environment, so it's a stage in their life development, and some species even do it as a response to stress. In humans, it strongly seems to be rooted in chromosomes that trigger a fetus to develop into one sex while the brain in exposed to a higher level of hormones of the sex opposite of the chromosomes, which causes the brain to develop more like that of the sex opposite of the chromosomes.
There is also no need to reconcile 21st century science with an ancient holy text. Transsexualism is a debilitating condition that degrades one's quality of life. The Bible says our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit; should we not take care of this temple and improve, as best we can, its functions? There is also the main focus of Christianity, Jesus' life and teachings, and he only had a problem with hypocrites and money lenders defiling the temple.
The Bible is also contains a number of ancient cures for various ailments. How is treating one condition ok, while treating another wrong? Ergo, because transsexualism is a disorder, and because the Bible approves treating disorders, treating transsexualism is compliant with Biblical law.


Many women, who are born women, cannot ovulate and have children. Does this make them any less of a woman? Sometimes they are even born with XY chromosomes. Does this disqualify her as a woman, even though it's how the world views her?


Like many Biblical passages rooted in Jewish law and tradition, these particular passages cannot be correctly interpreted without first learning of the cultural context in which they are from. Cross dressing is actually quite common during Purim, meaning there is no flat-out ban on men wearing that which partains unto a woman and vice versa.

:clap

Great post. I have two posts I need to frubal you for. Lol.

 

[Thana]

Actually homosexuality is against nature because it ceases procreation.

There are many things that cease procreation for example, Abstinence, Are they all 'against nature' and what is nature exactly?
Is nature seperate from God?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually homosexuality is against nature because it ceases procreation.

Many men and women are born sterile, or loose it through disease or accident. Are they against nature because they cannot procreate?